innovative sump/fuge design (simple/cheap)

[K' Family Reef]

rather then posting this on Sk8rs awesome refugium thread

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1258724

thought i would do a separate posting
as not to disrupt the discussions going on there as well as to share/invite more comments/discussion from others about this design.

in different threads
have spoken about my sump... and after getting a few requests for photos... i was finally able to find the initiation to get some photos taken and downloaded (admittedly not very efficient w/ the internet photo thing unlike so many of you here on RC!)... even right now as my wife is expecting me to get some stuff done around the house (we are doing some interior renovating!)... so this is rather hurried so i dont get in trouble by my beautiful wife!

its not like this is some grand design or anything
but quite the opposite - quite simple/INEXPENSIVE and efficient

and came about by accident in the middle of a catastrophe

told my wife i would be to bed shortly
(now i KNOW ya'll have had nites like this TOO ) after i got my new fuge hooked up (that was 10pm)... by 4am the next day i finally got it figured out how i was going FIX EVERYTHING that had gone so badly wrong the nite before when i last saw my wife


make a long story short
glass was broken leaving me w/ no sump and no way to get my system back together i had to think of something fast!... all i had to work with was about 12-13" betw the back of the tank and the wall - the other sump i had as well as an old wet/dry was too wide to fit back there

so this is what i came up with ON THE FLY!
and was only meant to be a temporary solution to fix the problem - yet innovatively became my PREFERRED method of filtration/sump! BY FAR!...

its been up now for 4-5 mos i think somewhere around there so its proven to be effective/reliable for me atleast.


let me try to post photos then go into a discussion after i see what they look like

lets see if this works - coming from photobucket - definitely open to suggestions on how best to do this if it doesnt work or otherwise

[Bmgrocks]

Hey, It does what you need it to do!
Great Job

[Acillaton]

Good job!!!

[K' Family Reef]

kewl so that worked here is a fts w/ the 50gal display fuge shown below the main display

125main display
50gal fuge
35gal fuge
+/- 210gal system

[K' Family Reef]

.

[K' Family Reef]

[K' Family Reef]

these photos were taken w/ o any effort to doctor them up
iow they are real tank photos how it usually looks...

few things
removed about 40#LR couple mos ago due to majanos - bleached it - some of it can be seen in fuge... but the aquascaping is just thrown around thus the 'cords' being visible in the background of the main display (usually these are not visible)... and the rockscape on rt side are just rocks stacked up there as others w/ majanos on them were being removed.

also i use painted plexi for backgrounds
main display and fuge (so they can be removed to see behind rockwork etc)- the fuge plexi is not up right now - so the wooden back is being shown - which is not aesthetically pleasing but oh well - just wanted to get some photos up and didnt want to spend a bunch of time 'prettying' things up

i wanted to discuss this sump but time constraints dont allow me at this time - will have to pick it up in a few...

regards

[K' Family Reef]

the idea behind this
was to be able to get something to squeeze in betw the wall and stand so i could dedicate underneath display for a 50 gal fuge

ultimately ended up w/ this design



FLOW pattern

water dumps into STAGE 1/skimmer stage

then the FUGE PUMP
pumps the majority of the water into the fuge... which the pump pulls out the majority of the water thru this stage - probably 90%of it is going thru fuge...

any water not pulled into fuge
(gravity) overflows thru the bulkheads into STAGE2/return stage...

STAGE 2/return stage (return pump/reactor pump)
CLEANEST water STAGE... where overflow from stage 1 meets w/ the (majority) of water being GRAVITY fed from the fuge
into STAGE 2/r... usually a constant trickle from S1 into S2...


note the phosphate reactor pump
is located in the CLEANEST stage - stage2/RETURN... then the reactor dumps back into the DIRTIEST side of the sump STAGE1/skimmer stage... to be recycled again

reason being
this allows the more expensive phosphate media to LAST LONGER... thus water feeding the reactor coming from the cleanest water and dumping back into the dirtiest

also note media bag on reactor return in STAGE1
this is a MUST!... if anyone has a reactor you want to be sure to put a media bag on the return line to catch any particles that WILL blow out


the overflow betw S1/S2
is set up so that in the event the FUGE PUMP fails... then the overflow will pick up ALL WATER will then go thru the overflow bulkheads betw S1/S2... thus avoiding FLOOD!... and this can be tested simply by unplugging the pump and watching what happens...

what does happen when pump goes out/unplugged
the water level rises to w/n about and inch of the top of S1... as the 'vacuum' is created in the overflow betw S1/S2... then once the flow is established... the water level slowly goes back down to 'normal' (normal as seen in photos)

so the system could be run w/ just water flowing betw S1/S2
so they can function independently w/o the fuge... thus allowing the fuge to be shut off to be worked on etc etc\

actually another nice thing about this set up
is it is totally 'modular'... in that S1 can function alone if need be by disconnecting S2 and simply lifting the return pump out of S2 placing it into S1... and vice versa... s2 can be unhooked/removed to be replaced worked on etc etc...

improvements

(any others??? recoms ???)

gravity to fuge vs using pump
simply need to raise S1 about 4-5" to allow for the gravity to feed water into fuge - would also have to adjust height of bulkhead holes etc - just havent got around to doing this but would much prefer to have the entire ssytem up and runnign off gravity vs using any pumps - reasons are obvious.

bigger bulkhead betw S1/S2
allow for more/FASTER water flow in the event it becomes necessary (ie fuge pump failure)... but its not necessary - i test this on a semi frequent basis to give me peace of mind!

[K' Family Reef]

our reef is primarily LPS

about 5mos ago we had a majano outbreak
ended up removing about 40# LR and bleached it... hoping to eradicate that problem and stop it in its trax... in the process had to get rid of several corals as well.... at that time decided to wait on doing anything else w/ the reef... that is adding any more corals etc etc

so our system has been on 'hold' for several mos
just maintaining and observing... waiting to see if the majanos are gone for good before we start adding any more corals... or doing anything else w/ this system.

now mos later
have decided to start putting more time/money into this system... as it seems the majanos have not reared their ugly heads again!...

and during this time the SPS bug has bitten!
so pretty much gettting ready to start learning/EQUIPING the system for some SPS corals...

as soon as i have the time
will be updating this system w/ better liting - currently has over 850 VHO (x6 5ft bulbs) - which is probably good enough from some sps and even clams anyway (for those w/ VHO only see this thread for vho/sps pics http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1018074 VERY NICE!)... but we like the shimmer of the halides

and still in process of researching what else will be needed to start keeping SPS... we never thought we would be making this move as we have been more then happy w/ LPS... in fact we used to never like SPS corals... funny how it starts to 'grow' on one as they get more experience in this hobby... but i am concerned about the added eXpense in terms of ((( TIME )))ELECTRICITY and SUPPLEMENTS... so this will be better assessed when i have more time to research it.

we like the fuge underneath as a second viewing tank
and intend to add fish under there for our little 6 month babygirl to enjoy as she starts growing!

regards

[Agu]

Ahh yes, the mad scientist sumps. At least that's what my wife called it when I had them .

Realize that the tubs were not designed to hold water or vibrating pumps long term. It might run that way 6 months or 6 years but eventually it will leak.

[K' Family Reef]

Originally posted by Agu
Ahh yes, the mad scientist sumps. At least that's what my wife called it when I had them .

Realize that the tubs were not designed to hold water or vibrating pumps long term. It might run that way 6 months or 6 years but eventually it will leak.

i realized that ahead of time -
the return pump is sitting on top of grating which rests on top of another plastic piece... the skimmer pump is also sitting on top of grating - so nothing is resting directly on the bottom/side of bin and that is a good point when using these.

figured these should be replaced every perhaps 6 mos if not sooner - will find out as time goes on!

[Agu]

Or it buys you time to come up with a more permanent solution .

In the meantime you'll be able to figure out how to improve the design too

[Aquarist007]

great innovative system glad you posted the pictures is easier to see.
the 50 gal viewing fuge---how is that hooked into your system?

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Agu
Ahh yes, the mad scientist sumps. At least that's what my wife called it when I had them .

Realize that the tubs were not designed to hold water or vibrating pumps long term. It might run that way 6 months or 6 years but eventually it will leak.

I never thought of that AGU does that hold true for my refuge also--its been running since last March.

(I hate posting another pic of it--sorry WAM- )

[K' Family Reef]

Originally posted by Agu
Or it buys you time to come up with a more permanent solution .

In the meantime you'll be able to figure out how to improve the design too

this has become the 'permanent solution'


as well as the preferred one!

like the ability to change (designs) at will...
for perhaps 5-6bucks (cost of a new bin)... i wonder if the other plastic (bins) are more durable then these that i have chosen to use (hard clear plastics)...

but i dont see a need for anything 'more'
for the sump atleast... these 2 stages/bins provide plenty in the way of what is necessary/required... that is a skimmer stage and a return stage - the little refugium added is an additional benefit

especially the way i intend to use it
accompanied w/ a large/separate display fuge

a sump is a 'simple' utility type feature of the system
and this one more adequately measures up... and its not even a matter of 'expense' to us (of having an acrylic one made to fit) as much as it is just a simple 'practical' working solution... there is no need for anything more in my opinion... in expense or design!

[Agu]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
I never thought of that AGU does that hold true for my refuge also--its been running since last March

I'm no plastics engineer but IME the tubs that a lot of people use were not designed to hold water long term. However they're so cheap it's not a problem to replace them when they show signs of degradation.

[K' Family Reef]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
great innovative system glad you posted the pictures is easier to see.
the 50 gal viewing fuge---how is that hooked into your system?

hey - your chaeto has grown since i last saw it (in the other thread) !





its fed via pump from the skimmer stage 1
(majority of water flows thru 50gal fuge approx 90% of water that is) what doesnt go thru fuge (from this skimmer stage) then gravity feeds into final return stage... although there is a constant trickle of water being fed directly from stage1 to stage2 via bulkheads and adjoining pvc

then continue w/ the gravity overflow
into the return stage2 of the sump... both stage1 and the display fuge (which has pvc bulkhead/drilled on end)... gravity feed into the final stage of the sump - return.

this is one of the modifications i am going to make
to this sump system and it wont be a hard one to redesign... it needs to gravity feed into my fuge (vs using pump)... and that means the skimmer section will need to be raised 4-5" inches and all bulkhead holes recut (probably takes about 15 minutes to do!)...

this way the entire 2stage sump/50gal fuge will be GRAVITY driven... the way it should have been to begin with.

the 50gal fuge
is the same footprint as a 40gal breeder only taller and it fits tightly under the stand - doesnt leave a lot of room to work around it but there is not much needed either once its in place!

having the back of the tank accessible
allows room for doing a lot more behind the tank... not to mention to be able to view whats going on behind the liverock - i kept it out as far as we comfortably could (considering placement w/n the room)... and the back of the tank is not painted but has removeable painted plexiglass on it... i wouldnt have it any other way regarding access to backside of the tank - especially one large enough that cannot be moved! and i dont like painted backs on tanks bec dont want to take away the 'option' to see whats going on behind everything - problems etc... and the extra working room is nice too.

our level of interest has increased dramatically
in this hobby and we are perhaps going to enclose/finish the backside of the tank... as well as to build / mount more shelving back there to hold top off/ calk reactors, co2 etc etc whatever is necessary for when we start making that move into SPS... which will all be hidden behind the tank

regards

[K' Family Reef]

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Agu
I'm no plastics engineer but IME the tubs that a lot of people use were not designed to hold water long term. However they're so cheap it's not a problem to replace them when they show signs of degradation.

as long as that's the case and I don't come down in the basement one morning to find the refugium water all over it.
Plus I have a pin hole fail safe on the loc line in the main tank, so it would not drain but I'd end up burning out that mag3600 return pump

[Aquarist007]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WarrenAmy&Maddy
[B]

Yes, that's what is all about

[Aquarist007]

WA&M
I found the link to the other thread--you might find it a good read---but I am giving you a heads up---there more pics

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1207565

[K' Family Reef]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
WA&M
I found the link to the other thread--you might find it a good read---but I am giving you a heads up---there more pics

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1207565

checked it out and your display tank looks great!
after seeing a few pics of your fuge was glad to finally be able to see your main tank!


anymore on your planned filtration/mangroves/mud ?

regards

[Aquarist007]

thanks but it is still going through changes--with the improvement of the filtration system I have been able to add elegance coral and my first lord acan.

[K' Family Reef]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
thanks but it is still going through changes--with the improvement of the filtration system I have been able to add elegance coral and my first lord acan.

the fish look great too!

what all do you have stocked in there
since our tank has been on hold for a little while we are also trying to figure out what fish we would like to add...

we have:

a ylw tang - punjabi,
a sunburst anthias that is one of our favorites in terms color!,
phat mandarin,
green brittle star in fuge,
red pin cushion urchin in fuge,
3 grn chromis,
cleaner shrimp
shrimp eating pistol shrimp (cleaned out all our peppermints! )
blue goby and 2 other tiny gobies that are never seen

we are interested in more 'schooling' fish to add to this system
being that our water quality is immaculate (having over 200gal in volume helps!) and nitrates have always been zero! i feel like there is room to add more.

[Aquarist007]

last roll call:

three tangs--yellow, blue, sailfin
three anthias
three blue green chromies
one elegant wrasse
one nemo
one coral beauty
one yellow damsel
one big mistake--zebra "dam"sel
2 clams
3 small urchins
1 brittle star
1 horse shoe crab
3 emeralds
1 cowrie
30 or so various types of snails
2 cleaner and 2 coral banded shrimp