cleaner fish

SheilaF · 12/05/2007, 08:22 AM

is there any benefit to having either a cleaner wrasse or a neon blue goby when it comes to dealing with ick?

Thanks

paulamrein · 12/05/2007, 09:06 AM

very little. If you decide to go that route, I would go with the neon goby. Cleaner wrasse seem to not eat prep foods as well. Having said that, they pick at them and clean the fish, but there isn't enough cleaner fish to keep up with the rate ich multiply. Not to mention there are fish that would never go to them to get cleaned. Clowns come to mind as ones who wouldn't and if there are larger fish in the tank. They make a meal out of them. Also, who is going to clean the cleaner fish?

SheilaF · 12/05/2007, 10:39 AM

This is my current situation (and I know I've made a few mistakes, like not having a QT tank)
I have a 30g tank with a small powerhead, aquaclear 110 and a rio nano skimmer. It has been up and running for 5 months with no major problems. For corals I have some zoas, waving hand xenia, hammer coral star polyps, and a few mushrooms.
Inhabitants: 1 cleaner shrimp, various crabs and snail and 2 red starfish, 2 false percs, 1 royal gramma, 1 yellowtail blue damsel 1 lawnmower blennie and the new addition, a gold rim tang.

I know this tank is too small for the tang, I have a 50gal with a 30gal sump cycling but it is not ready for fish or corals yet.

The tang is a new addition I got him on saturday and yesterday I noticed ich on him. All of the other fish are fine and the tang is extremely active and eating like a pig (he actually steals food out of the mouths of the other fish).

What do I do? I've been told clean water and good food should be enough if he is still healthy. Idon't want to lose this fish.

Thanks

paulamrein · 12/05/2007, 02:55 PM

Well, your best bet is to either wait until your 50g cycles and use your 30 as qt and qt ALL of the fish, sick or not. Only problem with that is depending on where you are at with cycling it may be too late for the tang. So, other option is either buy another tank, which isn't what you wanted to hear. Or what Quite a few people are doing now is getting a rubbermaid storage unit and use the water from existing tank and put the fish in that. Only fish though, everything not fish stays in your 30g. From there you will treat the fish with either copper or hypo salinity. And leave the 50g cycling for another 2 months. I say 2 months because most treatments require a 6-8 week treatment. After that you can put them into the 50g with the trust that it is completely ich free. Now, two things also to consider is that your inverts though the ich parasite can't live off of them, it can hitch a ride. So, anything, regardless of what it is, also needs to be quarantined for at least a month, sometimes longer. They don't need to be treated, just separate. And obviously any new fish you get goes through the same process. You may not have to treat them, just observe them for that time and if they show no signs than they can go in, but if they have ich, the 6-8 week cont down starts after they have no spots on them.

SheilaF · 12/13/2007, 03:22 PM

I have a 10gal set up for future QT, is that big enough for all the fish listed?
I have been feeding nori soaked in garlic as well as other garlic foods. Still no improvement in the tang and now my royal gramma and one of my clowns is showing signs. I don't want to introduce ich into my new tank if I can avoid it. I'd like to start out with a clean tank.

Instead of moving the fish out of the 30gal, can I move the rock/corals and inverts (and some of my live sand) into the 10gal until the 50 gal is ready and then treat the 30gal? I realize that by treating the 30gal, I won't be able to use any of the sand left in there, that is ok with me. If I take out the rock and maybe add some pvc tubes for hiding would that work?

Once the fish are in the 50gal, the 30 will be used for freshwater anyway, so I'm not too worried about not being able to put corals in there.

Also, what method would be better? Coppersafe or hyposalinity? The fish are: 1 gold rim tang, 2 false percs, 1 royal gramma, 1 lawnmower blennie, and 1 yellowtail damsel.

Thanks so much, I'm really stressed about this and boy have I learnt my lesson! Any new fish will be QT'd!

SheilaF · 12/13/2007, 04:58 PM

Please help, I'm afraid of losing the fish

paulamrein · 12/14/2007, 09:04 AM

Garlic does nothing but stimulate appetite. As far as QT methods, there is a guy on here named billsreef. PM him as far as specifics, he is really great and well versed, he is a marine biologist. Any specific questions you have I'm sure he can answer. This goes a little out of my realm considering I already have a working qt, and I treat 1 fish at a time. Sorry, but I know he can help, He's a mod so he is easy to find.

kevin2000 · 12/15/2007, 10:58 AM

My 02

No offense intended but a 30 gallon tank is suitable for a few small fish ... your tanks overstocked even without the tang which requires a tank larger than your new 50 gallon tank.

You might consider returning the tang .... setting up the 50 and moving the live rock, live sand, and inverts over .... leave the fish in the 30 using hypo. If you keep the fish in the QT for 5-6 weeks any ich within the ls/lr in the 50 will naturally die off (ich need a live fish to perpetuate their life cycle.

Hope this helps.

SEAMONSTER · 12/16/2007, 05:59 AM

Do all the above and invest in a uv sterilizer! i own a 60 gallon tank with 3 fish in it (gold-rim(whitecheek) tang, lawnmower blenny, 6-line wrasse, numerous sps corals. Very lightly stocked, most corals are frags. I quarantined my tank for 2 months (no fish in it) after a severe ich outbreak. I removed all the fish and put them in a quarantine tank (5-gallon bucket). All fish died due to change in enviroment (stress!). I continued with keeping my reef fish free for 50 days! When I added new fish, there was an outbreak of ich again (sucks!). Ich can survive in a fish-free enviroment for 11 months! (holy sh__!) I just found that out 3 days ago! Now I soak food in Selcon and garlic and utilize a uv sterilizer. Works great!!

paulamrein · 12/16/2007, 07:51 PM

SEAMONSTER please site your findings, a link, something. If you just found out three days ago, obviously you have it fresh in the mind. I am tired of people spouting off "facts" and latest information without any artical or finding to back it up, it's always a friend of a friend etc. The uv sterilizers are at best... ok. They are by no means a cure. And there is nothing solid about soaking foods in anything as a ich cure.

George Gouveia · 12/17/2007, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SEAMONSTER
Do all the above and invest in a uv sterilizer! i own a 60 gallon tank with 3 fish in it (gold-rim(whitecheek) tang, lawnmower blenny, 6-line wrasse, numerous sps corals. Very lightly stocked, most corals are frags. I quarantined my tank for 2 months (no fish in it) after a severe ich outbreak. I removed all the fish and put them in a quarantine tank (5-gallon bucket). All fish died due to change in enviroment (stress!). I continued with keeping my reef fish free for 50 days! When I added new fish, there was an outbreak of ich again (sucks!). Ich can survive in a fish-free enviroment for 11 months! (holy sh__!) I just found that out 3 days ago! Now I soak food in Selcon and garlic and utilize a uv sterilizer. Works great!!

I don't agree. You only need a UV Sterilizer if you don't quarantine your fish before you add them to your main display tank.

Freed · 12/17/2007, 06:16 AM

Sheila, all you need do right now is put your corals and everything NOT FISH in the 50 gallon. Should be close to being cycled, NO? Just watch ammonia and nitrites on a daily basis and change 20% or so water if needed.

Paulamrein has some good advice and should be listened to. He has asked me for alot of advice in the past and thank goodness he found you before I did so I didn't have to type the same stuff myself.

Garlic and UV are hocus pocus and have NEVER been proven or documented to kill ich yet. Only hyposalinity and copper treatment have been studied at length and have been proven and documented for treatment/erradication of ich.

QT anything wet prior to introduction into the main tank and you won't have to worry about ich in the future.

SEAMONSTER · 02/10/2008, 06:19 AM

yeah, well, what can I say? I do know that uv sterilization and soaking foods in nutritional supplements is not a guaranteed cure. However, it does give ich a real kick in the ***! There is very little outbreak in my tank since the usage of my uv sterilizer as well as with the food soaks. Although ich is not totally eradicated from my system, my fish have a fighting chance and I am no longer worried about them dying. All fish are completely alert, very healthy and fat. no sign of laterel line disease in the tang or any other ailments. I do have a cleaner shrimp which i had for a long time. Seems to be doing a great job. As far as supplements go, they help boost the immune system in fish which in turn makes them more resistant to disease.

SEAMONSTER · 02/10/2008, 06:22 AM

i am not saying that i am a Mr. know it all, either! I am on this thread to share some helpful advice. Proof is in the pudding, Goldrim Tangs are NOT the easiest fish in the world to keep alive in captivity! It aint no goddamn clownfish!

Cheers!

12/05/2007, 08:22 AM	#1
SheilaF Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Posts: 110	cleaner fish is there any benefit to having either a cleaner wrasse or a neon blue goby when it comes to dealing with ick? Thanks

12/05/2007, 09:06 AM	#2
paulamrein Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: St. Peters MO Posts: 1,141	very little. If you decide to go that route, I would go with the neon goby. Cleaner wrasse seem to not eat prep foods as well. Having said that, they pick at them and clean the fish, but there isn't enough cleaner fish to keep up with the rate ich multiply. Not to mention there are fish that would never go to them to get cleaned. Clowns come to mind as ones who wouldn't and if there are larger fish in the tank. They make a meal out of them. Also, who is going to clean the cleaner fish? __________________ Internet Killed the LFS Current Tank Info: 125g rr 20g sump

12/05/2007, 02:55 PM	#4
paulamrein Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: St. Peters MO Posts: 1,141	Well, your best bet is to either wait until your 50g cycles and use your 30 as qt and qt ALL of the fish, sick or not. Only problem with that is depending on where you are at with cycling it may be too late for the tang. So, other option is either buy another tank, which isn't what you wanted to hear. Or what Quite a few people are doing now is getting a rubbermaid storage unit and use the water from existing tank and put the fish in that. Only fish though, everything not fish stays in your 30g. From there you will treat the fish with either copper or hypo salinity. And leave the 50g cycling for another 2 months. I say 2 months because most treatments require a 6-8 week treatment. After that you can put them into the 50g with the trust that it is completely ich free. Now, two things also to consider is that your inverts though the ich parasite can't live off of them, it can hitch a ride. So, anything, regardless of what it is, also needs to be quarantined for at least a month, sometimes longer. They don't need to be treated, just separate. And obviously any new fish you get goes through the same process. You may not have to treat them, just observe them for that time and if they show no signs than they can go in, but if they have ich, the 6-8 week cont down starts after they have no spots on them. __________________ Internet Killed the LFS Current Tank Info: 125g rr 20g sump

12/14/2007, 09:04 AM	#7
paulamrein Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: St. Peters MO Posts: 1,141	Garlic does nothing but stimulate appetite. As far as QT methods, there is a guy on here named billsreef. PM him as far as specifics, he is really great and well versed, he is a marine biologist. Any specific questions you have I'm sure he can answer. This goes a little out of my realm considering I already have a working qt, and I treat 1 fish at a time. Sorry, but I know he can help, He's a mod so he is easy to find. __________________ Internet Killed the LFS Current Tank Info: 125g rr 20g sump

12/16/2007, 07:51 PM	#10
paulamrein Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: St. Peters MO Posts: 1,141	SEAMONSTER please site your findings, a link, something. If you just found out three days ago, obviously you have it fresh in the mind. I am tired of people spouting off "facts" and latest information without any artical or finding to back it up, it's always a friend of a friend etc. The uv sterilizers are at best... ok. They are by no means a cure. And there is nothing solid about soaking foods in anything as a ich cure. __________________ Internet Killed the LFS Current Tank Info: 125g rr 20g sump

12/05/2007, 10:39 AM	#3
SheilaF Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Posts: 110	This is my current situation (and I know I've made a few mistakes, like not having a QT tank) I have a 30g tank with a small powerhead, aquaclear 110 and a rio nano skimmer. It has been up and running for 5 months with no major problems. For corals I have some zoas, waving hand xenia, hammer coral star polyps, and a few mushrooms. Inhabitants: 1 cleaner shrimp, various crabs and snail and 2 red starfish, 2 false percs, 1 royal gramma, 1 yellowtail blue damsel 1 lawnmower blennie and the new addition, a gold rim tang. I know this tank is too small for the tang, I have a 50gal with a 30gal sump cycling but it is not ready for fish or corals yet. The tang is a new addition I got him on saturday and yesterday I noticed ich on him. All of the other fish are fine and the tang is extremely active and eating like a pig (he actually steals food out of the mouths of the other fish). What do I do? I've been told clean water and good food should be enough if he is still healthy. Idon't want to lose this fish. Thanks

12/13/2007, 03:22 PM	#5
SheilaF Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Posts: 110	I have a 10gal set up for future QT, is that big enough for all the fish listed? I have been feeding nori soaked in garlic as well as other garlic foods. Still no improvement in the tang and now my royal gramma and one of my clowns is showing signs. I don't want to introduce ich into my new tank if I can avoid it. I'd like to start out with a clean tank. Instead of moving the fish out of the 30gal, can I move the rock/corals and inverts (and some of my live sand) into the 10gal until the 50 gal is ready and then treat the 30gal? I realize that by treating the 30gal, I won't be able to use any of the sand left in there, that is ok with me. If I take out the rock and maybe add some pvc tubes for hiding would that work? Once the fish are in the 50gal, the 30 will be used for freshwater anyway, so I'm not too worried about not being able to put corals in there. Also, what method would be better? Coppersafe or hyposalinity? The fish are: 1 gold rim tang, 2 false percs, 1 royal gramma, 1 lawnmower blennie, and 1 yellowtail damsel. Thanks so much, I'm really stressed about this and boy have I learnt my lesson! Any new fish will be QT'd!

12/13/2007, 04:58 PM	#6
SheilaF Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Posts: 110	Please help, I'm afraid of losing the fish

12/15/2007, 10:58 AM	#8
kevin2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,805	My 02 No offense intended but a 30 gallon tank is suitable for a few small fish ... your tanks overstocked even without the tang which requires a tank larger than your new 50 gallon tank. You might consider returning the tang .... setting up the 50 and moving the live rock, live sand, and inverts over .... leave the fish in the 30 using hypo. If you keep the fish in the QT for 5-6 weeks any ich within the ls/lr in the 50 will naturally die off (ich need a live fish to perpetuate their life cycle. Hope this helps.

12/16/2007, 05:59 AM	#9
SEAMONSTER Registered Member. Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: LOS ANGELES Posts: 131	Do all the above and invest in a uv sterilizer! i own a 60 gallon tank with 3 fish in it (gold-rim(whitecheek) tang, lawnmower blenny, 6-line wrasse, numerous sps corals. Very lightly stocked, most corals are frags. I quarantined my tank for 2 months (no fish in it) after a severe ich outbreak. I removed all the fish and put them in a quarantine tank (5-gallon bucket). All fish died due to change in enviroment (stress!). I continued with keeping my reef fish free for 50 days! When I added new fish, there was an outbreak of ich again (sucks!). Ich can survive in a fish-free enviroment for 11 months! (holy sh__!) I just found that out 3 days ago! Now I soak food in Selcon and garlic and utilize a uv sterilizer. Works great!!

12/17/2007, 06:16 AM	#12
Freed It's what it's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 41° 2' 45" N 85° 8' 43" W Posts: 7,579	Sheila, all you need do right now is put your corals and everything NOT FISH in the 50 gallon. Should be close to being cycled, NO? Just watch ammonia and nitrites on a daily basis and change 20% or so water if needed. Paulamrein has some good advice and should be listened to. He has asked me for alot of advice in the past and thank goodness he found you before I did so I didn't have to type the same stuff myself. Garlic and UV are hocus pocus and have NEVER been proven or documented to kill ich yet. Only hyposalinity and copper treatment have been studied at length and have been proven and documented for treatment/erradication of ich. QT anything wet prior to introduction into the main tank and you won't have to worry about ich in the future. __________________ Freed Current Tank Info: 180gal(1120 watts of MH/VHO light), 60gal "sump", Deltec 601 calcium reactor, Euro Reef CS8-3+ skimmer, 20 gallon QT

02/10/2008, 06:19 AM	#13
SEAMONSTER Registered Member. Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: LOS ANGELES Posts: 131	yeah, well, what can I say? I do know that uv sterilization and soaking foods in nutritional supplements is not a guaranteed cure. However, it does give ich a real kick in the ***! There is very little outbreak in my tank since the usage of my uv sterilizer as well as with the food soaks. Although ich is not totally eradicated from my system, my fish have a fighting chance and I am no longer worried about them dying. All fish are completely alert, very healthy and fat. no sign of laterel line disease in the tang or any other ailments. I do have a cleaner shrimp which i had for a long time. Seems to be doing a great job. As far as supplements go, they help boost the immune system in fish which in turn makes them more resistant to disease.

02/10/2008, 06:22 AM	#14
SEAMONSTER Registered Member. Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: LOS ANGELES Posts: 131	i am not saying that i am a Mr. know it all, either! I am on this thread to share some helpful advice. Proof is in the pudding, Goldrim Tangs are NOT the easiest fish in the world to keep alive in captivity! It aint no goddamn clownfish! Cheers!