How to pick a reef safe Black & White Heniochus

ReefGirlSara · 12/13/2007, 08:31 PM

I've been told that there is a reef safe B&W Heniochus, that it is a heniochus diphreutes - or something like that. I've found a little info on line, but just when I think I can tell the difference, I find more pictures that confuse me again. Can anyone help me out with a fool proof way of telling the difference and picking one out at a fish store?

Maybe someone can post some pics of one that is reef safe?

ReefGirlSara · 12/17/2007, 02:36 PM

any thoughts?

Reeftanks6 · 12/17/2007, 04:43 PM

ok well when dealing with a butterfly you are never going to be sure whether or it is going to be reef safe its a hit or miss. Butterflys are kinda like angles they are a hit or miss

old salty · 12/18/2007, 07:03 AM

Mine was reef safe until that fateful day when it decided to not be reef safe and decimated a hammer colony and nearly took out two clams.

bgcook · 12/18/2007, 03:52 PM

the small book marine fishes describes the reef safe (safer) is the one in which the back black band comes to a point with the posterior portion of the pectoral fin. might want to look this info up since it was quite some time since i read it.

tcmfish · 12/18/2007, 03:54 PM

There are two different similar species and many books describe it. I don't have my books handy otherwise I would help ya out.

OffshoreNdeep · 12/18/2007, 04:30 PM

I tried to use the "last black stripe ends below the dorsal" rule of thumb...

At first using that method I thought I had the right one...but it was so friggin' close and I wound up with an acuminatus (non reef safe) which ate some LPS....

It is difficult to tell with only one to look at unless you can compare the two to each other, which is rare in a LFS...

So for me I go by the squashed in face method...

The diphreutes or (reef safe type) has a flatter, pushed in face, like they ran into the glass...I'm not trademarking this technique but perhaps you may see the difference...

http://www.vividaquariums.com/10Expa...Code=01-1813-S

BC

ReefGirlSara · 12/19/2007, 11:58 AM

Thank you everyone for your help. I think I will just take my time in finding one, and research it as much as I possibly can. I'd like to add one sooner rather than later just because my coral collection is not all that expensive at the moment. I will probably just keep looking at them for a month or two and try to pick one that seems to meet the extended black line criteria as well as the smooshed-in face criteria.

Thanks!!

toothman · 12/19/2007, 01:10 PM

I did not read all the responses but can first hand tell a tale of a 6", coral nipping one. I really wish I never put it in my large tank, a fishing rod does come to mind. I had to take out the echinos, open brain, it really is a nipper. I put them in a different tank. How about a nice tang.

tcmfish · 12/19/2007, 01:53 PM

Why not a zoster or pyramid if you really want a butterfly. A school of them could be very nice.

bureau13 · 12/19/2007, 02:10 PM

I've had the same problem. Sometimes if you have a REALLY knowledgable LFS they can tell the difference for you. Another factor...I have been told that you can have a better chance of getting it right if you know where they've come from. Unfortunately I don't remember much beyond that...I think maybe Hawaii was a good indication of being H. diphreutes, but do more research...I may well have that exactly backwards.

jds

Wrench · 12/19/2007, 02:27 PM

I recently took the risk and lost

One LFS had what I believed to be H. Diphreutes based on the black band ending at the point of the anal fin. Well I was wrong and it nipped at my corals I was luckily able to get it out and find another home for it. Since then, the LFS got in another shipment of both H. Diphreutes and H. Acuminatus. Side by side there is a clearly distinct difference in the 'breast' of the fish. The reef safe H. Diphreutes has a much more rounded breast and a shorter snout. The black bar ends at exactly the same spot on the fin on BOTH species! I find this to be a useless way of identifying the different species.

Hope this helps. These are beautiful fish and look great in any reef tank.

Flipper1 · 12/19/2007, 03:08 PM

An easy way to differentiate the two fishes is the curve of his body, directly under his mouth. The diphreutes "chin" curves directly down and toward the back. Acuminatus, on the other hand, has a bit of an S shape (a double curve) below the mouth.

Diphreutes:

Acuminatus:

Notice how the acuminatus has more of a double curve. You might say he's got more of a beak. The fish you're looking for is in the first picture. I generally see far more acuminatus (non reef-safe) henis in the stores, though.

ReefGirlSara · 12/21/2007, 10:43 AM

wow, really awesome info guys!! thank you so much!! I can't wait to go back to the LFSes and try to tell them apart! I will probably still wait a while. I think I want to get my chocolate tang and a watanabei or blackspot first, along with the lyretails I want, and then just see how the tank looks and go from there.

OffshoreNdeep · 12/21/2007, 12:02 PM

Nice work Flipper, your demonstration shows the flat face nicely! And you'll notice the last lateral lines end in the same place!! That was the problem I had, so after one of my beautiful brains got nipped on the Acunimatus went bye bye...

12/13/2007, 08:31 PM	#1
ReefGirlSara Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Archer, FL Posts: 709	How to pick a reef safe Black & White Heniochus I've been told that there is a reef safe B&W Heniochus, that it is a heniochus diphreutes - or something like that. I've found a little info on line, but just when I think I can tell the difference, I find more pictures that confuse me again. Can anyone help me out with a fool proof way of telling the difference and picking one out at a fish store? Maybe someone can post some pics of one that is reef safe?

12/17/2007, 04:43 PM	#3
Reeftanks6 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: PA Posts: 3,857	ok well when dealing with a butterfly you are never going to be sure whether or it is going to be reef safe its a hit or miss. Butterflys are kinda like angles they are a hit or miss __________________ 110g Reef build in progress Current Tank Info: 110 Gallon Reef

12/18/2007, 07:03 AM	#4
old salty Genius Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Island of Misfit Toys Posts: 3,131	Mine was reef safe until that fateful day when it decided to not be reef safe and decimated a hammer colony and nearly took out two clams. __________________ "The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers." Thomas Jefferson Current Tank Info: Out of the marine aquarium hobby

12/18/2007, 03:52 PM	#5
bgcook Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: McAllen, Texas Posts: 215	the small book marine fishes describes the reef safe (safer) is the one in which the back black band comes to a point with the posterior portion of the pectoral fin. might want to look this info up since it was quite some time since i read it. __________________ greg Current Tank Info: 540gal built in reef. 25 gal ecocube.

12/17/2007, 02:36 PM	#2
ReefGirlSara Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Archer, FL Posts: 709	any thoughts?

12/18/2007, 03:54 PM	#6
tcmfish Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,658	There are two different similar species and many books describe it. I don't have my books handy otherwise I would help ya out.

12/18/2007, 04:30 PM	#7
OffshoreNdeep Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 147	I tried to use the "last black stripe ends below the dorsal" rule of thumb... At first using that method I thought I had the right one...but it was so friggin' close and I wound up with an acuminatus (non reef safe) which ate some LPS.... It is difficult to tell with only one to look at unless you can compare the two to each other, which is rare in a LFS... So for me I go by the squashed in face method... The diphreutes or (reef safe type) has a flatter, pushed in face, like they ran into the glass...I'm not trademarking this technique but perhaps you may see the difference... http://www.vividaquariums.com/10Expa...Code=01-1813-S BC

12/19/2007, 11:58 AM	#8
ReefGirlSara Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Archer, FL Posts: 709	Thank you everyone for your help. I think I will just take my time in finding one, and research it as much as I possibly can. I'd like to add one sooner rather than later just because my coral collection is not all that expensive at the moment. I will probably just keep looking at them for a month or two and try to pick one that seems to meet the extended black line criteria as well as the smooshed-in face criteria. Thanks!!

12/19/2007, 01:10 PM	#9
toothman Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Phila area (Newtown) Posts: 1,572	I did not read all the responses but can first hand tell a tale of a 6", coral nipping one. I really wish I never put it in my large tank, a fishing rod does come to mind. I had to take out the echinos, open brain, it really is a nipper. I put them in a different tank. How about a nice tang.

12/19/2007, 01:53 PM	#10
tcmfish Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,658	Why not a zoster or pyramid if you really want a butterfly. A school of them could be very nice.

12/19/2007, 02:10 PM	#11
bureau13 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,936	I've had the same problem. Sometimes if you have a REALLY knowledgable LFS they can tell the difference for you. Another factor...I have been told that you can have a better chance of getting it right if you know where they've come from. Unfortunately I don't remember much beyond that...I think maybe Hawaii was a good indication of being H. diphreutes, but do more research...I may well have that exactly backwards. jds

12/19/2007, 02:27 PM	#12
Wrench Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,004	I recently took the risk and lost One LFS had what I believed to be H. Diphreutes based on the black band ending at the point of the anal fin. Well I was wrong and it nipped at my corals I was luckily able to get it out and find another home for it. Since then, the LFS got in another shipment of both H. Diphreutes and H. Acuminatus. Side by side there is a clearly distinct difference in the 'breast' of the fish. The reef safe H. Diphreutes has a much more rounded breast and a shorter snout. The black bar ends at exactly the same spot on the fin on BOTH species! I find this to be a useless way of identifying the different species. Hope this helps. These are beautiful fish and look great in any reef tank.

12/19/2007, 03:08 PM	#13
Flipper1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New York Posts: 353	An easy way to differentiate the two fishes is the curve of his body, directly under his mouth. The diphreutes "chin" curves directly down and toward the back. Acuminatus, on the other hand, has a bit of an S shape (a double curve) below the mouth. Diphreutes: Acuminatus: Notice how the acuminatus has more of a double curve. You might say he's got more of a beak. The fish you're looking for is in the first picture. I generally see far more acuminatus (non reef-safe) henis in the stores, though.

12/21/2007, 10:43 AM	#14
ReefGirlSara Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Archer, FL Posts: 709	wow, really awesome info guys!! thank you so much!! I can't wait to go back to the LFSes and try to tell them apart! I will probably still wait a while. I think I want to get my chocolate tang and a watanabei or blackspot first, along with the lyretails I want, and then just see how the tank looks and go from there.

12/21/2007, 12:02 PM	#15
OffshoreNdeep Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 147	Nice work Flipper, your demonstration shows the flat face nicely! And you'll notice the last lateral lines end in the same place!! That was the problem I had, so after one of my beautiful brains got nipped on the Acunimatus went bye bye...