How can there be diatoms when there is no silicate present in the water?!?!

10" Red Devil · 01/03/2008, 02:18 PM

I am dumbfounded by the sight of diatoms in my tank! I have tested and retested with 2 different test kits a brand new salifert that is fresh and a brand new seatest also fresh. I have tested the tank, RODI, Source, aged artificial red sea salt water, and have gotten zero results.

I feed the tank sparingly, maybe once a week a couple pellets and 1 or 2 shrimp pellets for the nassarius snails. The tank is a 14 gallon biocube that has a refugium, tunze nano skimmer on it. The nano skimmer works incredibly well always pulling gunk. Recently i decided to dismantle and do more water changes. I have done 1 5 gallon water change and then a few days later I did a 2 gallon water change. The diatoms came right back!

There is tons of flow in the tank. The main pump has been upgraded to a maxijet 900 and there is an Aquaclear pushing 130 something at the opposite end of the tank.

The light is only on for 8 hours a day and is a new bulb 70 watt DE halide 14K.

My clown recently passed away so there is no organics really contributing to a nutrient problem.

The diatoms have been around for months now!!

I have included some pics to make sure that what I have is diatoms! Unfortunately my lens is a telephoto so sorry for the poor quality.

boxfishpooalot · 01/03/2008, 04:26 PM

The answer is simple. They are eating. Its coming from your sand and your rock. Disolves slowly and they eat it.

Diatoms are not bad just unsightly.

If you want to fight them your going to have to do it chemically or biologically. You pick. GFO phosphate remover, remove the sand bed, remove the rock and hope that new stuff added does not contain silicate that leaches out.

bhdmc · 01/03/2008, 04:45 PM

I was getting diatom on the front glass, sand etc for many years. Using PO4 remover, water changes, protein skimmer, refugium, you name it but it still continue. I just change fish food from Hikari Marine "A" pellets and Hikari frozen Mysis shrimp to Ocean Nutrient Formula 2 pellets. After a couple of weeks, the diatom went away. This was my problem.

Serioussnaps · 01/03/2008, 04:56 PM

Dare I say......go BB!

Please don't flame me.

Your question was answered...Diatoms are consuming the silicates and testing is not picking them up. Silicate test kits suck as it is unless you are testing at a serious lab at a university near you.

10" Red Devil · 01/03/2008, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Serioussnaps
Dare I say......go BB!

Please don't flame me.

Your question was answered...Diatoms are consuming the silicates and testing is not picking them up. Silicate test kits suck as it is unless you are testing at a serious lab at a university near you.

You may dare.

I have done BB before and it works pretty well for me. This was an experiment more then anything because I had never tried a DSB. It definitely keeps my nitrates at bay. Thanks for the support everyone!

10" Red Devil · 01/03/2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by boxfishpooalot
The answer is simple. They are eating. Its coming from your sand and your rock. Disolves slowly and they eat it.

Diatoms are not bad just unsightly. If you want to fight them your going to have to do it chemically or biologically. You pick. GFO phosphate remover, remove the sand bed, remove the rock and hope that new stuff added does not contain silicate that leaches out.

Oh okay. Makes sense I guess. Can I run a GFO passively in the system? Will it work or do I have to run a reactor?

Thanks.

10" Red Devil · 01/03/2008, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by boxfishpooalot
The answer is simple. They are eating. Its coming from your sand and your rock. Disolves slowly and they eat it.

Diatoms are not bad just unsightly. If you want to fight them your going to have to do it chemically or biologically. You pick. GFO phosphate remover, remove the sand bed, remove the rock and hope that new stuff added does not contain silicate that leaches out.

If I were to get new rock what is to stop this from happening again? What in your opinion is the best course of action?

dead beat reef · 01/03/2008, 11:17 PM

Hey 10 RD What might be is that the diatoms use up
all the silicates phos. etc. So that when you test you
get a zero read. Nothing left to test for, the diatoms
eat it all. Starve the diatoms. No free lunch. dbr

boxfishpooalot · 01/04/2008, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 10" Red Devil
Oh okay. Makes sense I guess. Can I run a GFO passively in the system? Will it work or do I have to run a reactor?

Thanks.

Yes you can run GFO passivley. Its better to use a reactor, due to clumping. But you should be ok without one.

If you remove your rock and replace it with new rock would be less than optimal. Because chances are that the rock will contain available nutrients again. It may be 10% less than the other rock or 100% less. Basically its a gamble.

Mostly its in your sand. Reef sand is not 100% calcium based. Thats why they are growing on it. The food is closest there so they grow there. I also agree bb is much better.

A rock is actually just a big, well huge sand particle. They still act in the same fashion as sand except you have much less of it. And rock should be mostly calcium based since it was formed by califcating corals, and interlocking corraline algae. But thats not 100% true in all rock cases.

10" Red Devil · 01/04/2008, 10:45 AM

Well thanks for the advice everyone! I think I will try and run some phos ban in one of the chambers. Maybe I should just give up the ship and ditch the sand bed. Seems in this case it is a failed experiment. Maybe the tanks size is too small for a dsb even though I have heard arguments against.

dead beat reef · 01/05/2008, 01:02 AM

What up 10 I just went through the same thing you
are. Use the phos ban it works. Its not the rocks or
sand its the free nutrients in the water that feed
the diatoms. One big change I saw was when I
got the KH up to 8 dkh 2.9 and kept at that point.
Diatoms do not like that water chem. Check with
Randy in the chem. fourm he might be able to help.
More flow. Mas flow. Mega flow. dbr

01/03/2008, 02:18 PM	#1
10" Red Devil Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,611	How can there be diatoms when there is no silicate present in the water?!?! I am dumbfounded by the sight of diatoms in my tank! I have tested and retested with 2 different test kits a brand new salifert that is fresh and a brand new seatest also fresh. I have tested the tank, RODI, Source, aged artificial red sea salt water, and have gotten zero results. I feed the tank sparingly, maybe once a week a couple pellets and 1 or 2 shrimp pellets for the nassarius snails. The tank is a 14 gallon biocube that has a refugium, tunze nano skimmer on it. The nano skimmer works incredibly well always pulling gunk. Recently i decided to dismantle and do more water changes. I have done 1 5 gallon water change and then a few days later I did a 2 gallon water change. The diatoms came right back! There is tons of flow in the tank. The main pump has been upgraded to a maxijet 900 and there is an Aquaclear pushing 130 something at the opposite end of the tank. The light is only on for 8 hours a day and is a new bulb 70 watt DE halide 14K. My clown recently passed away so there is no organics really contributing to a nutrient problem. The diatoms have been around for months now!! I have included some pics to make sure that what I have is diatoms! Unfortunately my lens is a telephoto so sorry for the poor quality.

01/03/2008, 04:26 PM	#2
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	The answer is simple. They are eating. Its coming from your sand and your rock. Disolves slowly and they eat it. Diatoms are not bad just unsightly. If you want to fight them your going to have to do it chemically or biologically. You pick. GFO phosphate remover, remove the sand bed, remove the rock and hope that new stuff added does not contain silicate that leaches out. __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

01/03/2008, 04:45 PM	#3
bhdmc Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: New York Posts: 956	I was getting diatom on the front glass, sand etc for many years. Using PO4 remover, water changes, protein skimmer, refugium, you name it but it still continue. I just change fish food from Hikari Marine "A" pellets and Hikari frozen Mysis shrimp to Ocean Nutrient Formula 2 pellets. After a couple of weeks, the diatom went away. This was my problem.

01/03/2008, 04:56 PM	#4
Serioussnaps Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,703	Dare I say......go BB! Please don't flame me. Your question was answered...Diatoms are consuming the silicates and testing is not picking them up. Silicate test kits suck as it is unless you are testing at a serious lab at a university near you.

01/03/2008, 11:17 PM	#8
dead beat reef Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 279	Hey 10 RD What might be is that the diatoms use up all the silicates phos. etc. So that when you test you get a zero read. Nothing left to test for, the diatoms eat it all. Starve the diatoms. No free lunch. dbr

01/04/2008, 10:45 AM	#10
10" Red Devil Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,611	Well thanks for the advice everyone! I think I will try and run some phos ban in one of the chambers. Maybe I should just give up the ship and ditch the sand bed. Seems in this case it is a failed experiment. Maybe the tanks size is too small for a dsb even though I have heard arguments against.

01/05/2008, 01:02 AM	#11
dead beat reef Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 279	What up 10 I just went through the same thing you are. Use the phos ban it works. Its not the rocks or sand its the free nutrients in the water that feed the diatoms. One big change I saw was when I got the KH up to 8 dkh 2.9 and kept at that point. Diatoms do not like that water chem. Check with Randy in the chem. fourm he might be able to help. More flow. Mas flow. Mega flow. dbr