Stray Electricity

tangtang81 · 01/04/2008, 04:02 PM

Hi everyone...I just noticed that I have quiet a bit of stray electricity in my tank.
What effect does it have?
How to get rid of it?

Roy G. Biv · 01/04/2008, 04:07 PM

It causes HLLE and you could die.
Unplug one thing at a time until it goes away. Then replace it.

tangtang81 · 01/04/2008, 04:19 PM

whats HLLE ?

Michael7979 · 01/04/2008, 04:23 PM

Head and Lateral Line Erosion

tangtang81 · 01/04/2008, 04:26 PM

hmm ok unplugged one by one and it is BOTH of my koralia's 4. Is there a way to get rid of it other than replacing item. One of them is brand new.. just had it replaced last week.

Michael7979 · 01/04/2008, 04:27 PM

Also a grounding probe might be a good safety item if it happens again.

McTeague · 01/04/2008, 04:30 PM

Does your power strip have a three prong plug?

tangtang81 · 01/04/2008, 04:33 PM

yes three..... this particular strip powers wavemaster pro with 4 maxijets and 2x koralia 4...... only when i unplug both koralias the zappin goes away. is this usual for the koralias? what does the grounding probe do?

Roy G. Biv · 01/04/2008, 04:40 PM

Power heads do add minimal current to the water. Not much but just enough to feel it. Personally I use a ground probe, but you will get all sorts of opinions on that one. Basically, instead of the current going through your arm, it goes to the probe.
On a more severe situation note.
I just looked at my H4 plugs, they are 2 prong. 1 Hot and 1 Neutral. GFCI will only trip when there is a short between neutral and ground. If your tank is not grounded, there can be no short to trip the GFCI if it is a severe problem.

tangtang81 · 01/04/2008, 04:47 PM

so if I'm understanding this correct.....a ground probe removes the electricity from the tank? The electricity has to go from the koralia to the probe....so is there still current in the tank?

m2434 · 01/04/2008, 05:32 PM

Saltwater is ionic in nature and if you test it you will get a voltage reading as a result. How much voltage are seeing? This mystical "stray voltage" bs dosn't seem to have any validity IMO... If however, a pump or something malfunctions, you could be electrocuted, and in some cases a ground probe along with a GFCI may help prevent this.

As for HLLE read this.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/sp/index.php

zotzer · 01/04/2008, 05:55 PM

I have a question about this. I utilize two GFCI outlets for my tank, and one ground probe. Do I need to add a second ground probe?

Tracy

McTeague · 01/04/2008, 05:57 PM

I just wonder how much of this "stray electricity" is really just static electricity shocks...

wife no likey · 01/04/2008, 06:01 PM

not to get into all the ground probe stuff, etc. .but

1) a gfci senses current draw between load and neutral - a ground has nothing to do with it

2) you don't need a second probe zotzer

tangtang81 · 01/04/2008, 06:48 PM

I'm not sure how much voltage it actually has since i dont have a tester.....but its enough that I pulled my hand away cause I got zapped. I turned the koralias off now...I'll borrow a tester from someone tomorrow and see how much it has.

flinster · 01/04/2008, 07:18 PM

Is it possible you got one of the recalled (or warned, whatever they called it) pumps? Where did you get it?

tangtang81 · 01/04/2008, 07:21 PM

got both at my LFS ... how do I find out about the recall....this is the first i heared of it. what was the recall for?

m2434 · 01/04/2008, 07:30 PM

Most tingling is probably psychoschematic or sensitive skin. If you are actually getting shocked, it is a real problem and something need to be replaces ASAP. A ground probe will only mask the problem.

tangtang81 · 01/04/2008, 07:33 PM

not sure that its sensetive skin. I had a wet hand and just tested by barely touching my fingernail and got zapped. i will get a tester tomorrow and see what it reads. how do you test this on what setting? red in water / blk on a ground?

poppin_fresh · 01/04/2008, 07:40 PM

Heres a post I had a couple months ago. I would read the articles that where recommended in that post. I found it very useful.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1266736

poppin_fresh · 01/04/2008, 07:41 PM

set the meter to AC voltage and place the red probe in the tank and the black to the ground in an outlet. You will get your voltage.

McTeague · 01/04/2008, 07:52 PM

If you touch the water and you are not standing in a bucket of salt water connected with copper wire to a ground then what you are feeling is STATIC ELECTRICITY. The constant flow of the water molecules builds up a STATIC charge which "zaps" you when you touch the water. I have been zapped by static electricity many many times when touching my tank water and also when touching the flow coming out of the tap.

tangtang81 · 01/04/2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by McTeague
If you touch the water and you are not standing in a bucket of salt water connected with copper wire to a ground then what you are feeling is STATIC ELECTRICITY. The constant flow of the water molecules builds up a STATIC charge which "zaps" you when you touch the water. I have been zapped by static electricity many many times when touching my tank water and also when touching the flow coming out of the tap.

i c ...... but why do i only get zapped when the koralias are plugged in?

poppin_fresh · 01/04/2008, 08:16 PM

The problem may not BE that the Koralias are introducing stray voltage into the tank, but rather they may be acting as ground probes.

The best way to see if its the pumps is to place them in a plastic bucket and see if you still get zapped (or read excess voltage). If they read very low or nothing in the bucket the pumps aren't causing the voltage.

tangtang81 · 01/04/2008, 08:20 PM

this should be an interesting little experiment. I will try testing all this tomorrow.

01/04/2008, 04:02 PM	#1
tangtang81 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: FL Posts: 276	Stray Electricity Hi everyone...I just noticed that I have quiet a bit of stray electricity in my tank. What effect does it have? How to get rid of it?

01/04/2008, 04:23 PM	#4
Michael7979 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Keizer,OR Posts: 923	Head and Lateral Line Erosion __________________ MIKE THERE IS ALWAYS MORE TO LEARN!! 240 RE-build in progress!.....(slowly) Current Tank Info: 240g, 4- 400w Radiums on PFO HQI ballasts, 4- 110w VHO on IceCap 660 ballast, Euro-Reef Skimmer

01/04/2008, 04:27 PM	#6
Michael7979 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Keizer,OR Posts: 923	Also a grounding probe might be a good safety item if it happens again. __________________ MIKE THERE IS ALWAYS MORE TO LEARN!! 240 RE-build in progress!.....(slowly) Current Tank Info: 240g, 4- 400w Radiums on PFO HQI ballasts, 4- 110w VHO on IceCap 660 ballast, Euro-Reef Skimmer

01/04/2008, 05:32 PM	#11
m2434 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,171	Saltwater is ionic in nature and if you test it you will get a voltage reading as a result. How much voltage are seeing? This mystical "stray voltage" bs dosn't seem to have any validity IMO... If however, a pump or something malfunctions, you could be electrocuted, and in some cases a ground probe along with a GFCI may help prevent this. As for HLLE read this. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/sp/index.php __________________ Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there. ~Richard Feynman

01/04/2008, 07:30 PM	#18
m2434 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,171	Most tingling is probably psychoschematic or sensitive skin. If you are actually getting shocked, it is a real problem and something need to be replaces ASAP. A ground probe will only mask the problem. __________________ Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there. ~Richard Feynman

01/04/2008, 04:07 PM	#2
Roy G. Biv Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,646	It causes HLLE and you could die. Unplug one thing at a time until it goes away. Then replace it.

01/04/2008, 04:19 PM	#3
tangtang81 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: FL Posts: 276	whats HLLE ?

01/04/2008, 04:26 PM	#5
tangtang81 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: FL Posts: 276	hmm ok unplugged one by one and it is BOTH of my koralia's 4. Is there a way to get rid of it other than replacing item. One of them is brand new.. just had it replaced last week.

01/04/2008, 04:30 PM	#7
McTeague Moved On Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana Posts: 501	Does your power strip have a three prong plug?

01/04/2008, 04:33 PM	#8
tangtang81 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: FL Posts: 276	yes three..... this particular strip powers wavemaster pro with 4 maxijets and 2x koralia 4...... only when i unplug both koralias the zappin goes away. is this usual for the koralias? what does the grounding probe do?

01/04/2008, 04:40 PM	#9
Roy G. Biv Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,646	Power heads do add minimal current to the water. Not much but just enough to feel it. Personally I use a ground probe, but you will get all sorts of opinions on that one. Basically, instead of the current going through your arm, it goes to the probe. On a more severe situation note. I just looked at my H4 plugs, they are 2 prong. 1 Hot and 1 Neutral. GFCI will only trip when there is a short between neutral and ground. If your tank is not grounded, there can be no short to trip the GFCI if it is a severe problem.

01/04/2008, 04:47 PM	#10
tangtang81 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: FL Posts: 276	so if I'm understanding this correct.....a ground probe removes the electricity from the tank? The electricity has to go from the koralia to the probe....so is there still current in the tank?

01/04/2008, 05:55 PM	#12
zotzer Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 346	I have a question about this. I utilize two GFCI outlets for my tank, and one ground probe. Do I need to add a second ground probe? Tracy

01/04/2008, 05:57 PM	#13
McTeague Moved On Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana Posts: 501	I just wonder how much of this "stray electricity" is really just static electricity shocks...

01/04/2008, 06:01 PM	#14
wife no likey Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 647	not to get into all the ground probe stuff, etc. .but 1) a gfci senses current draw between load and neutral - a ground has nothing to do with it 2) you don't need a second probe zotzer

01/04/2008, 06:48 PM	#15
tangtang81 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: FL Posts: 276	I'm not sure how much voltage it actually has since i dont have a tester.....but its enough that I pulled my hand away cause I got zapped. I turned the koralias off now...I'll borrow a tester from someone tomorrow and see how much it has.

01/04/2008, 07:18 PM	#16
flinster Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 209	Is it possible you got one of the recalled (or warned, whatever they called it) pumps? Where did you get it?

01/04/2008, 07:21 PM	#17
tangtang81 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: FL Posts: 276	got both at my LFS ... how do I find out about the recall....this is the first i heared of it. what was the recall for?

01/04/2008, 07:33 PM	#19
tangtang81 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: FL Posts: 276	not sure that its sensetive skin. I had a wet hand and just tested by barely touching my fingernail and got zapped. i will get a tester tomorrow and see what it reads. how do you test this on what setting? red in water / blk on a ground?

01/04/2008, 07:40 PM	#20
poppin_fresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,982	Heres a post I had a couple months ago. I would read the articles that where recommended in that post. I found it very useful. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1266736 __________________ PBITAWA! Current Tank Info: None now. Past- 180g w/ 100g basement sump and 20g 'fuge. H & S skimmer, T'5s & Tunze

01/04/2008, 07:41 PM	#21
poppin_fresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,982	set the meter to AC voltage and place the red probe in the tank and the black to the ground in an outlet. You will get your voltage. __________________ PBITAWA! Current Tank Info: None now. Past- 180g w/ 100g basement sump and 20g 'fuge. H & S skimmer, T'5s & Tunze

01/04/2008, 07:52 PM	#22
McTeague Moved On Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana Posts: 501	If you touch the water and you are not standing in a bucket of salt water connected with copper wire to a ground then what you are feeling is STATIC ELECTRICITY. The constant flow of the water molecules builds up a STATIC charge which "zaps" you when you touch the water. I have been zapped by static electricity many many times when touching my tank water and also when touching the flow coming out of the tap.

01/04/2008, 08:16 PM	#24
poppin_fresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,982	The problem may not BE that the Koralias are introducing stray voltage into the tank, but rather they may be acting as ground probes. The best way to see if its the pumps is to place them in a plastic bucket and see if you still get zapped (or read excess voltage). If they read very low or nothing in the bucket the pumps aren't causing the voltage. __________________ PBITAWA! Current Tank Info: None now. Past- 180g w/ 100g basement sump and 20g 'fuge. H & S skimmer, T'5s & Tunze

01/04/2008, 08:20 PM	#25
tangtang81 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: FL Posts: 276	this should be an interesting little experiment. I will try testing all this tomorrow.