blue spotted jawfish & pearl jawfish

Kigs · 01/13/2008, 06:15 PM

has anyone tried keeping them both in a same tank? i have a blue spotted jawfish which is considerably bigger than two pearl jawfish i have added recently, and after two days, the blue spot is constantly trying to jump out, swimming around the tank homeless, and its tail all nipped and seems attacked. i'm almost certain that its the pearls attatcking it, but just doesn't make sense its they are not even a pair, and they are both half its size. any ideas?

JM68 · 01/13/2008, 06:40 PM

how big is the tank? if its not more than 100g than its probably not big enough for more than one jaw and even then it may not be big enough depending on the individual fish. they can get pretty territorial

Pea-brain · 01/13/2008, 07:23 PM

yellowhead jawfish seem to be fine with another yellowhead within 1-6 inches away from its burrow, where blue spots should have at least 1' away from another blue spot. I have no idea how this all works within diff. species.

Dan

philter4 · 01/13/2008, 07:24 PM

While I agree that some jawfish can be agressive, IMO they can be kept in smaller tanks, I had a 75 gal high (same foot print as a 55 gal, but taller) and had several jawfish including blue spot and pearly jaws. I don't know why but sometimes they just get restless and try to move. The nipped fins aren't normal, but as long as he settles down and builds a new burrow, i think it will be fine.

One thing that may or may not be relevant is in the wild the jaws seem to move their colonies from time to time, usually during the changing of the seasons, at certain times while diving I find the jaws between the first and second reef in shallow but as the season goes from summer to fall and winter the whole colonies move to deeper water. In the spring they are back again. I've seen this with pearlys duskys and blue spots as those are the kinds I have watched and collected, maybe others do also.

flinster · 01/13/2008, 08:32 PM

How long have you had the blue spot? I have never EVER heard of anyone having long term success with them, not even large public aquariums.

philter4 · 01/13/2008, 09:02 PM

I collected 7 total, 2 jumped the other 5 lived for years until I moved from San Diego to FL and didn't take any fish with me.

One thing I've posted before, is how the bluespots are collected. Most of the commercial collectors use this method, I've dove with several and they all used some version of the following. They take a 2 inch pvc coupler and rubberband a plastic bag around one end. Then they take 5 or 6 of these to the jawfish burrows and squirt a chemical down the hole (most use vinigar, but once I saw them use deleted bleach) then put the coupler over the hole and go on to the next hole after a few seconds the jaws come out of the hole and are in the bag. Now I've never done any scientific studies, but I dug mine out and they lived fine, with the damage to the gills from bleach or even vinigar, maybe that is why they don't have good survival rates. The other difference is that I take very good care of the animal from day one, a commercial collector has to hold them until shipping to a wholesaler who then ships them to the store who then sells to us as hobbyiests. At each place the more care it takes the more money it costs the more you have to sell it for to make a profit. A pet store usually gives it the best care but by then how many have gone past the point where their long term survival is in question?

I am a firm believer in the fact that many hard to care for fish would do better in a perfect world, where the collector and wholesalers treat every fish like it was their own. I've kept moorish idols that I collected myself for over 7 years. Some fish that we know the reason they don't live, such as coral eating butterfly, should not be taken, but others where some people have kept them but the norm isn't long term could possibly be because of collection and handling methods that need to be better.

Now time for me to get off my soap box LOL !!! just my own thoughts on hard to keep fish.

Kigs · 01/13/2008, 09:36 PM

if you guys had to rate their aggressiveness between different species of jawfish, which would you rate higher; pearl or the bluespot?

Sigmund · 01/14/2008, 08:49 AM

I have kept various jawfish combos together in both 75g and 125g tanks. Currently in my 125g I have a Dusky, Ring-Eye, and Pastel Jawfish together. The Dusky jawfish is definetely one of the more aggressive jawfish, and will occaisionally kick one of my other jawfish out of their burrows. Generally the evicted jawfish will just swap burrows with the fish that kicked them out.

Squabbles are generally brief, and focus on mouth openings and displays, and generally do not involve fin nipping or real damage.

I would guess the state of your blue-spot has more to do with the fact that they just do not survive well in captivity, and often before they die will get real uncomfortable with their burrows (often trying to create new burrows everday, throughout the day, and looking like they want to jump out of the tank). I have had this same pattern happen twice with blue-spots before they died.

I have only had success with one blue-spot which I had for 2 years before it jumped out through the smallest opening in my canopy (I still say it was a one in a million jump, although it cost me $100 bucks).

Watch your temp bluespots prefer temps in the mid to upper 70's, do not do well in 80F or above.

Again I would doubt your problems with the bluespot are from aggression from the Pearly's, my experience is that BlueSpots can more than hold their own with other jawfish.

thor32766 · 01/14/2008, 09:04 AM

I have also read part of the reason of small success is we keep our tanks to warm for them. They tend to like in the 70's as mentioned.

Kigs · 01/15/2008, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund
I have kept various jawfish combos together in both 75g and 125g tanks. Currently in my 125g I have a Dusky, Ring-Eye, and Pastel Jawfish together. The Dusky jawfish is definetely one of the more aggressive jawfish, and will occaisionally kick one of my other jawfish out of their burrows. Generally the evicted jawfish will just swap burrows with the fish that kicked them out.

Squabbles are generally brief, and focus on mouth openings and displays, and generally do not involve fin nipping or real damage.

I would guess the state of your blue-spot has more to do with the fact that they just do not survive well in captivity, and often before they die will get real uncomfortable with their burrows (often trying to create new burrows everday, throughout the day, and looking like they want to jump out of the tank). I have had this same pattern happen twice with blue-spots before they died.

I have only had success with one blue-spot which I had for 2 years before it jumped out through the smallest opening in my canopy (I still say it was a one in a million jump, although it cost me $100 bucks).

Watch your temp bluespots prefer temps in the mid to upper 70's, do not do well in 80F or above.

Again I would doubt your problems with the bluespot are from aggression from the Pearly's, my experience is that BlueSpots can more than hold their own with other jawfish.

It's starting to make more sense now, but the only thing I cannot match up with your description is that two days after I added the pearl jawfish, I found my bluespot with its tails entirely "gone" and you could see the red flesh part of it and all. And the night before, first night the pearls were added, the blue spot jumped out of the tank, while me around it at night so I was able to get it back in the tank.

It is definitely true about its behavior, it did try to make several new homes but it was eating extremely well and getting along with everything else in the tank.

LargeAngels · 01/15/2008, 12:54 PM

Here is what Kevin (Director of Live Aquaria) wrote about Blue Spotted Jawfish

Opistognathus rosenblatti are one of my favorite fish with their incredible vivid blue spots and great personality.

Fish of the genus Opistognathus will find a comfortable spot in the aquarium and start moving large quantities of substrate with their giant mouths to make a nice hole next to some structure such as live rock. These fascinating fish will spend countless hours perfecting this burrow, then capping it off with a wall of small rocks (or in Sara's case her frags!). I always like to provide these fish with quite a few small pieces of rock or coral rubble that are less than 1" in length so they have all the building material they need to complete their project.

Once settled into the aquarium that has a very tight fitting lid and covered overflow boxes in reef ready aquariums, Blue Dot Jawfish require several feedings a day of enriched mysis and other meaty fare. When provided with the proper environment and husbandry, and with the acquisition of a healthy, quarantined specemine, these fish can adapt well to most reef aquaria that are maintained between 70-80 degrees, and live for many years.

Unfortunately the biggest problem with Opistognathus rosenblatti is the handling of these fish directly after they are harvested. When these fish are stressed by overcrowding and are exposed to less than ideal water conditions, this can open to doors to numerous bacterial infections and other pathogens from open wounds, or lack of protective body slime (they can be very aggressive among themselves when kept together in tight quarters).

Some Blue Dot Jawfish are not handled properly, and this normally will not show up until weeks later as they travel through the chain of custody. This is why some hobbyists and retailers may have very poor luck when trying to maintain this species.

They key to success with this incredible fish is to make sure you obtain a very healthy specimen that has been handled and cared for properly all through the chain of custody. Purchasing specimen from a place that has strict quarantine procedures, and can administer the proper antibiotics if the fish shows signs of disease is very critical. Once in your care and provided with the criteria listed above, this beautiful fish should adapt well and be happy and healthy for many years to come.

On some occasions during the collection, holding and handling of these fish before export coupled with the transport stress through the chain of custody, Opistognathus rosenblatti will oftentimes be affected by a ciliated protozoan that will manifest itself on the fishes body. Once these protozoans become overbearing for the fish (which can happen in just 24-48 hours), they cause severe stress and even death to these fish very quickly.

Proper quarantine procedures are critical for this species so that if these protozoans affect the fish, a treatment protocol can be incorporated immediately as Jawfish do not have large thick scales for protection. Due to this common problem we incorporate Formalin baths and a few other proprietary techniques to combat this issue, with very good results.

More often than not this pathogen is Brooklynella hostilis, the same ciliated protozoan that affect clownfish in the marine aquarium trade.

01/13/2008, 06:15 PM	#1
Kigs Moved On Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: LI, NY Posts: 2,182	blue spotted jawfish & pearl jawfish has anyone tried keeping them both in a same tank? i have a blue spotted jawfish which is considerably bigger than two pearl jawfish i have added recently, and after two days, the blue spot is constantly trying to jump out, swimming around the tank homeless, and its tail all nipped and seems attacked. i'm almost certain that its the pearls attatcking it, but just doesn't make sense its they are not even a pair, and they are both half its size. any ideas?

01/13/2008, 07:24 PM	#4
philter4 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: sunrise fl Posts: 1,497	While I agree that some jawfish can be agressive, IMO they can be kept in smaller tanks, I had a 75 gal high (same foot print as a 55 gal, but taller) and had several jawfish including blue spot and pearly jaws. I don't know why but sometimes they just get restless and try to move. The nipped fins aren't normal, but as long as he settles down and builds a new burrow, i think it will be fine. One thing that may or may not be relevant is in the wild the jaws seem to move their colonies from time to time, usually during the changing of the seasons, at certain times while diving I find the jaws between the first and second reef in shallow but as the season goes from summer to fall and winter the whole colonies move to deeper water. In the spring they are back again. I've seen this with pearlys duskys and blue spots as those are the kinds I have watched and collected, maybe others do also. __________________ Life is short, buy fish Current Tank Info: 1 fish and 1 reef new 24 gal current nano

01/13/2008, 09:02 PM	#6
philter4 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: sunrise fl Posts: 1,497	I collected 7 total, 2 jumped the other 5 lived for years until I moved from San Diego to FL and didn't take any fish with me. One thing I've posted before, is how the bluespots are collected. Most of the commercial collectors use this method, I've dove with several and they all used some version of the following. They take a 2 inch pvc coupler and rubberband a plastic bag around one end. Then they take 5 or 6 of these to the jawfish burrows and squirt a chemical down the hole (most use vinigar, but once I saw them use deleted bleach) then put the coupler over the hole and go on to the next hole after a few seconds the jaws come out of the hole and are in the bag. Now I've never done any scientific studies, but I dug mine out and they lived fine, with the damage to the gills from bleach or even vinigar, maybe that is why they don't have good survival rates. The other difference is that I take very good care of the animal from day one, a commercial collector has to hold them until shipping to a wholesaler who then ships them to the store who then sells to us as hobbyiests. At each place the more care it takes the more money it costs the more you have to sell it for to make a profit. A pet store usually gives it the best care but by then how many have gone past the point where their long term survival is in question? I am a firm believer in the fact that many hard to care for fish would do better in a perfect world, where the collector and wholesalers treat every fish like it was their own. I've kept moorish idols that I collected myself for over 7 years. Some fish that we know the reason they don't live, such as coral eating butterfly, should not be taken, but others where some people have kept them but the norm isn't long term could possibly be because of collection and handling methods that need to be better. Now time for me to get off my soap box LOL !!! just my own thoughts on hard to keep fish. __________________ Life is short, buy fish Current Tank Info: 1 fish and 1 reef new 24 gal current nano

01/14/2008, 09:04 AM	#9
thor32766 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chuluota, FL Posts: 6,072	I have also read part of the reason of small success is we keep our tanks to warm for them. They tend to like in the 70's as mentioned. __________________ "Live your life so no one has to lie about who you were at your funeral" click on my red house to see my tang compound! Current Tank Info: 29 gallon in Wall!

01/13/2008, 06:40 PM	#2
JM68 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 658	how big is the tank? if its not more than 100g than its probably not big enough for more than one jaw and even then it may not be big enough depending on the individual fish. they can get pretty territorial

01/13/2008, 07:23 PM	#3
Pea-brain Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Vassalboro, ME Posts: 1,661	yellowhead jawfish seem to be fine with another yellowhead within 1-6 inches away from its burrow, where blue spots should have at least 1' away from another blue spot. I have no idea how this all works within diff. species. Dan

01/13/2008, 08:32 PM	#5
flinster Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 209	How long have you had the blue spot? I have never EVER heard of anyone having long term success with them, not even large public aquariums.

01/13/2008, 09:36 PM	#7
Kigs Moved On Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: LI, NY Posts: 2,182	if you guys had to rate their aggressiveness between different species of jawfish, which would you rate higher; pearl or the bluespot?

01/14/2008, 08:49 AM	#8
Sigmund Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 380	I have kept various jawfish combos together in both 75g and 125g tanks. Currently in my 125g I have a Dusky, Ring-Eye, and Pastel Jawfish together. The Dusky jawfish is definetely one of the more aggressive jawfish, and will occaisionally kick one of my other jawfish out of their burrows. Generally the evicted jawfish will just swap burrows with the fish that kicked them out. Squabbles are generally brief, and focus on mouth openings and displays, and generally do not involve fin nipping or real damage. I would guess the state of your blue-spot has more to do with the fact that they just do not survive well in captivity, and often before they die will get real uncomfortable with their burrows (often trying to create new burrows everday, throughout the day, and looking like they want to jump out of the tank). I have had this same pattern happen twice with blue-spots before they died. I have only had success with one blue-spot which I had for 2 years before it jumped out through the smallest opening in my canopy (I still say it was a one in a million jump, although it cost me $100 bucks). Watch your temp bluespots prefer temps in the mid to upper 70's, do not do well in 80F or above. Again I would doubt your problems with the bluespot are from aggression from the Pearly's, my experience is that BlueSpots can more than hold their own with other jawfish.

01/15/2008, 12:54 PM	#11
LargeAngels Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,651	Here is what Kevin (Director of Live Aquaria) wrote about Blue Spotted Jawfish Opistognathus rosenblatti are one of my favorite fish with their incredible vivid blue spots and great personality. Fish of the genus Opistognathus will find a comfortable spot in the aquarium and start moving large quantities of substrate with their giant mouths to make a nice hole next to some structure such as live rock. These fascinating fish will spend countless hours perfecting this burrow, then capping it off with a wall of small rocks (or in Sara's case her frags!). I always like to provide these fish with quite a few small pieces of rock or coral rubble that are less than 1" in length so they have all the building material they need to complete their project. Once settled into the aquarium that has a very tight fitting lid and covered overflow boxes in reef ready aquariums, Blue Dot Jawfish require several feedings a day of enriched mysis and other meaty fare. When provided with the proper environment and husbandry, and with the acquisition of a healthy, quarantined specemine, these fish can adapt well to most reef aquaria that are maintained between 70-80 degrees, and live for many years. Unfortunately the biggest problem with Opistognathus rosenblatti is the handling of these fish directly after they are harvested. When these fish are stressed by overcrowding and are exposed to less than ideal water conditions, this can open to doors to numerous bacterial infections and other pathogens from open wounds, or lack of protective body slime (they can be very aggressive among themselves when kept together in tight quarters). Some Blue Dot Jawfish are not handled properly, and this normally will not show up until weeks later as they travel through the chain of custody. This is why some hobbyists and retailers may have very poor luck when trying to maintain this species. They key to success with this incredible fish is to make sure you obtain a very healthy specimen that has been handled and cared for properly all through the chain of custody. Purchasing specimen from a place that has strict quarantine procedures, and can administer the proper antibiotics if the fish shows signs of disease is very critical. Once in your care and provided with the criteria listed above, this beautiful fish should adapt well and be happy and healthy for many years to come. On some occasions during the collection, holding and handling of these fish before export coupled with the transport stress through the chain of custody, Opistognathus rosenblatti will oftentimes be affected by a ciliated protozoan that will manifest itself on the fishes body. Once these protozoans become overbearing for the fish (which can happen in just 24-48 hours), they cause severe stress and even death to these fish very quickly. Proper quarantine procedures are critical for this species so that if these protozoans affect the fish, a treatment protocol can be incorporated immediately as Jawfish do not have large thick scales for protection. Due to this common problem we incorporate Formalin baths and a few other proprietary techniques to combat this issue, with very good results. More often than not this pathogen is Brooklynella hostilis, the same ciliated protozoan that affect clownfish in the marine aquarium trade.