He-Mantis??

BangkokMatt · 01/16/2008, 07:10 PM

The rocks I have placed on the sand have a habit of moving during the night. Some of these are rocks half the size of a mans fist and the have moved as far as 15 inches.

This morning I awoke to 3 corals shoved together. My large open brain was angled upwards with another coral underneath it and a small frag of Acan shoved to the side of the pile. It was an expensive gooey mess. I shone my torch into the mess. No critters in there but a clicking came from the tank.

Is this the work of a Mantis? Are they capable of moving such relatively heavy rocks? Any other suggestions as to what it could be?
Thanks

GreshamH · 01/16/2008, 07:16 PM

plenty of crabs can do such damage, especially gorilla and mithrax (emerald).

Justinandkrista · 01/16/2008, 07:19 PM

The clicking noise sounds like a mantis.

demonsp · 01/16/2008, 07:22 PM

Turbos and crabs could. But the main rock pieces should be on the glass bottom and the rest attatched with putty to keep in place and prevent slides. I thought i had a mantis but it was just hermits competeing for a better location.Heres a cool mantis video anyway.

http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r...ent=mantis.flv

BangkokMatt · 01/16/2008, 07:24 PM

GreshamH - Thanks. The crab trap will go in tonight. Do you think the behaviour sounds mre like a crab than a Mantis or could it be either.

Justinandkrista - Agreed, but the clicking wasn't particularly loud (not that I know how loud a Mantis clicks).

demonsp · 01/16/2008, 07:27 PM

I found my hermits will tap on the shell of another hermit to try and make him move as to steal his location.Happens often.

DawnOctopus · 01/16/2008, 07:50 PM

I have had large snails move medium sized rocks, do you have any large snails in there?

BangkokMatt · 01/16/2008, 08:03 PM

Yes, I have large snails - no hermits though.
Dawn - Have you snails moved rocks several inches over sand?

GreshamH · 01/16/2008, 08:11 PM

I've had small crabs move very large rocks, so yah, IMO it does sound like a crab to me. I've never had mantis rearrange aquascaping like that. Mine just have eaten things I liked and caused me much grief as the tank was in my bedroom

In my tank I have some snails that twist back and forth quickly against the glass or rocks when another snail trys to catch a ride on the others back. The action creates a decent clicking noise.

Big snails could do it as well, but IMO less likely the canidate then the crab

DylanE · 01/16/2008, 08:14 PM

mantis shrimp move rocks and debris too. id say moved rocks AND clicking... mantis.

Pea-brain · 01/16/2008, 08:17 PM

It could be a mantis, but it certainly is doubtable. The largest mantis your likely to run into as a hitch hiker would be about 3". They can be impressive but they aren't magic. Check for other things that could make a clicking sound-snails on glass infornt of a powerhead, clams, crabs and even clownfish have been known to click (and don't rule out pistol shrimp). Also most mantises are diurnal.

Dan

GreshamH · 01/16/2008, 08:28 PM

Really, I thought most mantis are nocturnal? A quick google as well as a quick skim thru my library only have the majority of them being listed as nocturnal.

BangkokMatt · 01/16/2008, 08:39 PM

The clicking definitely wasn't snails 'tapping' but could have been a pistol. I have got one but the clicking wasn't coming from where he lives. The clicking was fairly quiet - possibly clowns as the sound was similar.

adtravels · 01/16/2008, 08:40 PM

Matt has a large, robust pistol shrimp (a tiger) I think that from the sounds of it the pistol is mostlikely the culprit.

BangkokMatt · 01/16/2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GreshamH
Really, I thought most mantis are nocturnal? A quick google as well as a quick skim thru my library only have the majority of them being listed as nocturnal.

I also thought nocturnal, anyway - these occurances only ever happen at night.

BangkokMatt · 01/16/2008, 09:03 PM

Whatever it is the outbreak of war is now inevitable. The glass jar crab traps go in tonight.
If it a Mantis I will lay down some food and try the red torchlight and skewer it with an appropriately viscious device - is this the best way to locate and 'dispose' of them.

BangkokMatt · 01/16/2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by demonsp
Heres a cool mantis video anyway.

http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r...ent=mantis.flv

Cool vid but I don't think I will be showing it to my better half. She won't sleep tonight!

BangkokMatt · 01/17/2008, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by adtravels
Matt has a large, robust pistol shrimp (a tiger) I think that from the sounds of it the pistol is mostlikely the culprit.

Its not the tiger pistol as the rocks have been moving before it was in the tank

JokerGirl · 01/17/2008, 08:04 AM

Why not just make a bottle trap for the suspected mantis instead of killing it? They are incredibly intelligent creatures and it's a shame to see them so violently thought of. Mantis can see red light anyways.

Are the rocks ending up in the same place every time? Like Pea-Brain said, it's possible, but highly doubtful. They are capable of moving some rubble, but nothing enormous.

BangkokMatt · 01/17/2008, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JokerGirl
Why not just make a bottle trap for the suspected mantis instead of killing it? They are incredibly intelligent creatures and it's a shame to see them so violently thought of. Mantis can see red light anyways.

Are the rocks ending up in the same place every time? Like Pea-Brain said, it's possible, but highly doubtful. They are capable of moving some rubble, but nothing enormous.

It would be nice to do that - but then what do I do with it. Anyway, whatever the culprit I catch, it has caused me a whole lo of grief and money. I'm not feeling much love for it at the moment. I'll continue building my weapon

If they can see red lights how do you suggest I catch it (if it is a Mantis - which I agree now, seems unlikely)

techreef · 01/17/2008, 08:14 AM

I support the crab theory too. I've had 7, count 'em, 7 mantis shrimp in my tank. All were hitchhikers on my LR, with three of them being over 2" long. Re: the day/night debate, I can say that the big mantis shrimp in my tank would swim all over the tank during the day. No fear! Maybe with enough size, they don't have to hide during the day? Good luck catching them. Like JokerGirl said, they are way smarter than you'd think a shrimp should be, and I was never able to catch any of mine with traps. It was always "haul out the rock w/ the mantis in it, squirt seltzer water into its hole to force it out." Now that I've been in the hobby for over a year, I would probably have kept at least one of them as a pet in my sump. They are really interesting to watch, but I was freaked about losing my fish and snails and hermits back when I started out.

BangkokMatt · 01/17/2008, 08:22 AM

7!!!! Oh no, I could have an entire army to deal with. Lets hope its a rogue crab.

DawnOctopus · 01/17/2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BangkokMatt
Yes, I have large snails - no hermits though.
Dawn - Have you snails moved rocks several inches over sand?

Not several inches, but maybe 2 inches. I think my large snails were causing rockslides. I hope that it's just a crab for you. GOod luck!

techreef · 01/17/2008, 11:37 AM

gorilla and emerald/mithrax crabs are pretty strong, and could probably move those rocks like you describe. by far the strongest crab i've come across are stone crabs. i had one as a hitchhiker on my LR. little guy was only about 1/2" across, but he could grab the chopstick i was using on him and wave it around! he was a tiny sherman tank!

K' Family Reef · 01/17/2008, 12:24 PM

Matt
what type of a bottle trap do you propose would work to catch the crab/shrimp ???

asking bec have a pistol shrimp
which since adding has eliminated my aiptasia fiting team (6+peppermints... then also a fire shrimp) thus ending w/ aiptasia overgrown in this system - would like to catch the tiger pistol and get him out of the tank.

any ideas?

regards

01/16/2008, 07:10 PM	#1
BangkokMatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Krung Thep Posts: 3,100	He-Mantis?? The rocks I have placed on the sand have a habit of moving during the night. Some of these are rocks half the size of a mans fist and the have moved as far as 15 inches. This morning I awoke to 3 corals shoved together. My large open brain was angled upwards with another coral underneath it and a small frag of Acan shoved to the side of the pile. It was an expensive gooey mess. I shone my torch into the mess. No critters in there but a clicking came from the tank. Is this the work of a Mantis? Are they capable of moving such relatively heavy rocks? Any other suggestions as to what it could be? Thanks __________________ I've spent a lot of money on booze, women and fish. The rest I just squandered. Current Tank Info: 150g sps Reef (now FOWLR after a devastating crash due to chiller) , 2x400w MH (Icecap ballast, Lumenmax 2, Reeflux 12k SE), Deltec AP701, Grotech Tec III, Chiller, 2 x Tunze 6101, 1 x 6205 (+ m/c), bla bla

01/16/2008, 07:16 PM	#2
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	plenty of crabs can do such damage, especially gorilla and mithrax (emerald). __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time

01/16/2008, 07:24 PM	#5
BangkokMatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Krung Thep Posts: 3,100	GreshamH - Thanks. The crab trap will go in tonight. Do you think the behaviour sounds mre like a crab than a Mantis or could it be either. Justinandkrista - Agreed, but the clicking wasn't particularly loud (not that I know how loud a Mantis clicks). __________________ I've spent a lot of money on booze, women and fish. The rest I just squandered. Current Tank Info: 150g sps Reef (now FOWLR after a devastating crash due to chiller) , 2x400w MH (Icecap ballast, Lumenmax 2, Reeflux 12k SE), Deltec AP701, Grotech Tec III, Chiller, 2 x Tunze 6101, 1 x 6205 (+ m/c), bla bla

01/16/2008, 08:03 PM	#8
BangkokMatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Krung Thep Posts: 3,100	Yes, I have large snails - no hermits though. Dawn - Have you snails moved rocks several inches over sand? __________________ I've spent a lot of money on booze, women and fish. The rest I just squandered. Current Tank Info: 150g sps Reef (now FOWLR after a devastating crash due to chiller) , 2x400w MH (Icecap ballast, Lumenmax 2, Reeflux 12k SE), Deltec AP701, Grotech Tec III, Chiller, 2 x Tunze 6101, 1 x 6205 (+ m/c), bla bla

01/16/2008, 08:11 PM	#9
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	I've had small crabs move very large rocks, so yah, IMO it does sound like a crab to me. I've never had mantis rearrange aquascaping like that. Mine just have eaten things I liked and caused me much grief as the tank was in my bedroom In my tank I have some snails that twist back and forth quickly against the glass or rocks when another snail trys to catch a ride on the others back. The action creates a decent clicking noise. Big snails could do it as well, but IMO less likely the canidate then the crab __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time

01/16/2008, 07:19 PM	#3
Justinandkrista Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Port Angeles,WA Posts: 691	The clicking noise sounds like a mantis.

01/16/2008, 07:22 PM	#4
demonsp Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: el paso tx Posts: 7,634	Turbos and crabs could. But the main rock pieces should be on the glass bottom and the rest attatched with putty to keep in place and prevent slides. I thought i had a mantis but it was just hermits competeing for a better location.Heres a cool mantis video anyway. http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r...ent=mantis.flv

01/16/2008, 07:27 PM	#6
demonsp Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: el paso tx Posts: 7,634	I found my hermits will tap on the shell of another hermit to try and make him move as to steal his location.Happens often.

01/16/2008, 07:50 PM	#7
DawnOctopus Octopus in Training Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Billerica, MA Posts: 113	I have had large snails move medium sized rocks, do you have any large snails in there?

01/16/2008, 08:14 PM	#10
DylanE Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sacramento Posts: 379	mantis shrimp move rocks and debris too. id say moved rocks AND clicking... mantis.

01/16/2008, 08:17 PM	#11
Pea-brain Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Vassalboro, ME Posts: 1,661	It could be a mantis, but it certainly is doubtable. The largest mantis your likely to run into as a hitch hiker would be about 3". They can be impressive but they aren't magic. Check for other things that could make a clicking sound-snails on glass infornt of a powerhead, clams, crabs and even clownfish have been known to click (and don't rule out pistol shrimp). Also most mantises are diurnal. Dan

01/16/2008, 08:28 PM	#12
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	Really, I thought most mantis are nocturnal? A quick google as well as a quick skim thru my library only have the majority of them being listed as nocturnal. __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time

01/16/2008, 08:39 PM	#13
BangkokMatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Krung Thep Posts: 3,100	The clicking definitely wasn't snails 'tapping' but could have been a pistol. I have got one but the clicking wasn't coming from where he lives. The clicking was fairly quiet - possibly clowns as the sound was similar. __________________ I've spent a lot of money on booze, women and fish. The rest I just squandered. Current Tank Info: 150g sps Reef (now FOWLR after a devastating crash due to chiller) , 2x400w MH (Icecap ballast, Lumenmax 2, Reeflux 12k SE), Deltec AP701, Grotech Tec III, Chiller, 2 x Tunze 6101, 1 x 6205 (+ m/c), bla bla

01/16/2008, 08:40 PM	#14
adtravels you cant buy blue fingers Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,542	Matt has a large, robust pistol shrimp (a tiger) I think that from the sounds of it the pistol is mostlikely the culprit. __________________ False facts are highly injurious to the progress of science, for they often endure long; but false views supported by some evidence, do little harm, for every one takes a salutary pleasure in proving their falseness. Current Tank Info: 90 gallon 36x24x24 reef

01/16/2008, 09:03 PM	#16
BangkokMatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Krung Thep Posts: 3,100	Whatever it is the outbreak of war is now inevitable. The glass jar crab traps go in tonight. If it a Mantis I will lay down some food and try the red torchlight and skewer it with an appropriately viscious device - is this the best way to locate and 'dispose' of them. __________________ I've spent a lot of money on booze, women and fish. The rest I just squandered. Current Tank Info: 150g sps Reef (now FOWLR after a devastating crash due to chiller) , 2x400w MH (Icecap ballast, Lumenmax 2, Reeflux 12k SE), Deltec AP701, Grotech Tec III, Chiller, 2 x Tunze 6101, 1 x 6205 (+ m/c), bla bla Last edited by BangkokMatt; 01/16/2008 at 09:29 PM.

01/17/2008, 08:04 AM	#19
JokerGirl Whistler's Mother Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: That place Posts: 1,345	Why not just make a bottle trap for the suspected mantis instead of killing it? They are incredibly intelligent creatures and it's a shame to see them so violently thought of. Mantis can see red light anyways. Are the rocks ending up in the same place every time? Like Pea-Brain said, it's possible, but highly doubtful. They are capable of moving some rubble, but nothing enormous. __________________ 01000001 01101110 01111001 01101111 01101110 01100101 00111111 Current Tank Info: 120g Reef Tank, 60g Cube Mantis/Reef Tank, Want more info, ask me.

01/17/2008, 08:14 AM	#21
techreef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montclair, NJ Posts: 1,046	I support the crab theory too. I've had 7, count 'em, 7 mantis shrimp in my tank. All were hitchhikers on my LR, with three of them being over 2" long. Re: the day/night debate, I can say that the big mantis shrimp in my tank would swim all over the tank during the day. No fear! Maybe with enough size, they don't have to hide during the day? Good luck catching them. Like JokerGirl said, they are way smarter than you'd think a shrimp should be, and I was never able to catch any of mine with traps. It was always "haul out the rock w/ the mantis in it, squirt seltzer water into its hole to force it out." Now that I've been in the hobby for over a year, I would probably have kept at least one of them as a pet in my sump. They are really interesting to watch, but I was freaked about losing my fish and snails and hermits back when I started out.

01/17/2008, 08:22 AM	#22
BangkokMatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Krung Thep Posts: 3,100	7!!!! Oh no, I could have an entire army to deal with. Lets hope its a rogue crab. __________________ I've spent a lot of money on booze, women and fish. The rest I just squandered. Current Tank Info: 150g sps Reef (now FOWLR after a devastating crash due to chiller) , 2x400w MH (Icecap ballast, Lumenmax 2, Reeflux 12k SE), Deltec AP701, Grotech Tec III, Chiller, 2 x Tunze 6101, 1 x 6205 (+ m/c), bla bla

01/17/2008, 11:37 AM	#24
techreef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montclair, NJ Posts: 1,046	gorilla and emerald/mithrax crabs are pretty strong, and could probably move those rocks like you describe. by far the strongest crab i've come across are stone crabs. i had one as a hitchhiker on my LR. little guy was only about 1/2" across, but he could grab the chopstick i was using on him and wave it around! he was a tiny sherman tank!

01/17/2008, 12:24 PM	#25
K' Family Reef Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,966	Matt what type of a bottle trap do you propose would work to catch the crab/shrimp ??? asking bec have a pistol shrimp which since adding has eliminated my aiptasia fiting team (6+peppermints... then also a fire shrimp) thus ending w/ aiptasia overgrown in this system - would like to catch the tiger pistol and get him out of the tank. any ideas? regards Last edited by K' Family Reef; 01/17/2008 at 12:34 PM.