Where did I go wrong

[Trebora]

For Xmas my GF got me a small 12 gallon tank so I could quit dreaming of doing a reef and actually do it.

I've had the tank temp at 77F, PH 8.2 and the Nitrates and nitrites were 0 PPM. I haven't placed any live rock just some live sand with some fake rocks and plants. This run is more of an experiment to learn with.

A few weeks ago I started off with 4 small hermits and 2 medium. They seemed happy and were moving around climbing and generally seemed content.

On thursday one of the small hermits started digging himself into the substrate so he just had a bit of himself visible.

Then on Friday I decided to get a couple shrimp. My GF talked me into getting 2 Peppermint Shrimp. In the morning everyone was alive but when I came home from work the crabs were munching away on one of shrimp.

The crabs seem a lot less active and I'd almost say skittish.

Today As i was brewing coffee I walk over and the shrimp has come out of his cubby and he's whacking away at a crab that was out of his shell. (I haven't looked to see where his shell was (I'm thinking its back near the shrimps cubby) I also havent seen the digger anywhere in a couple days (he's the smallest of the bunch)

Last bit, food. I've been dropping in a pinch of flakes in the morning once a day.

So enough background there I think. What did I do wrong. Was this just retaliation for eating his friend (kidding). Do peppermint shrimp prey on small crabs or am I not dropping in enough food.

Like I said at first this is all a learning run and I'm like a mom with a newborn right now. I'd like to know what I could have done better.

[dileggi]

Hey trebora. Your Ph, nitrites and nitrates seem fine. You didn't mention your amonia or your salinity. Do you know what those levels were?

How did you acclimate the crabs/shrimp to the tank?

As for the shrimp and crabs..the shrimps are carniverous, so it's probably not uncommon for them to go after the crabs. I've never actually kept a shrimp to speak on advice though. The crabs themselves are opportunistic feeders. I wouldn't think the crabs killed the shrimp. Maybe the shrimp wasn't acclimated correctly, or if your salinity or other water parametes were off, or maybe it just died and the crabs got a free meal?

[HumanIMDB]

Put on your flame retardant underwear because you are about to get a lot of people tell you (very strongly) what you did wrong. Most will be very polite and informative, but some may be down right snippy.

I suggest you read the "first time" posts at the top of the forum, that will give you a lot of information on what you need to do to restart your tank.

Having done basically the same thing a few years ago I know what you're going through.

First, what are you using for filtration? Most likely you have a Hang on the back (HOB) or Canister filter with stuff that will help but you will want to replace with something else soon. My recommendation would be to get some live rock in that tank and something to circulate the water; a nano powerhead.

Second, what kind of substrate are you using? If it's crushed coral it's better than epoxy coated gravel (which is what I used the first time) but you will want to get a better substrate sooner rather than later.

Third, don't add anything more until the tank matures; at least a few weeks after adding the live rock.

That should get you started...we're here to help...good luck and welcome to an expensive hobby!

[Sk8r]

1. possibly you're seeing molts. [castoff skin] They look a lot like the animal.
2. Did you acclimate [drip] your new acquisitions?
3. Peps are odd critters. They'll investigate things, and it's hard to know what they'll take into their heads to do.

I don't find any particular fault with your tank, except I'd recommend you get some actual live rock to increase processing power. Your filter [I'm assuming you have one] is just going to accumulate crud that will turn to nitrate, and depend on you to change it; live rock would just---process it. Your sand probably isn't live, unless you started with live sand, because the bacteria usually come from the rock.
Aragonite sand is best.
Also, hermits can get cranky with each other---for shells. Always have the next size up available. And if they need certain nutrients they may take after their neighbors [the source of them if there's none in the water.]
I'd recommend you stick to scarlet hermits and the micro-bluelegs. Peps ought to mind their business, really. I'm still wondering if you're seeing molts...which do get eaten.

[Savas]

Human is right, prepare to be flamed. Lets start with what you did right: got a girlfriend and had her buy you a gift... Now the tank... I would immediately do a 20% water change. Add some cured live rock and test your water everyday for at least 2 weeks. Do not buy anything else living for your tank for at least 30 days - 45 is better. Do a one gallon water change weekly. Go to the library and read a book a week on saltwater tanks - they are easy reads and basically say the same stuff, but repitition helps. Lastly, hang in there. It is the early days that are the hardest.

[Nanz]

I assume you have a Nanocube 12gallon.

You listed 2 of the three most important parameters but left out one.. Salinity. You have to keep Temp, pH and Salinity constant.

When you buy rock your going to want to get CURED live rock and I would still cycle it in a bucket with a heater and a powerhead for a couple weeks to make sure its completely cycled or else your nanotank could cycle again with the addition of the LR. It must be cured before adding to a tank with inverts.

Assuming again that you have a nanocube then you will want to remove the bio-balls after the LR has been added to the tank. Remove one ball ever other day after the rock has been added. Make some LR rouble and place it in the filter compartment. Bio balls are not good for reefs because they can trap nitrates.

Good Luck

[HumanIMDB]

Yes, Savas has it right...having a girlfriend that supports your hobby will go a very long way in your being a successful reefer... My girlfriend is very involved in our tank, she feels bad if we go to the LFS and don't buy anything...

You didn't do anything that cannot be fixed, IMO...listen to Sk8r and other RC Mods, they know their stuff.

I forgot the water changes, thanks Savas for catching that.

There are probably hundreds of things you'll read that you will say "Why didn't I do that!?!?" or "Man, I sure screwed up on that!" (in my case using epoxy gravel)...but the key is to stay positive and do what you can to get things right again.

[Trebora]

Oops.

SG - 1.023
Ammonia - .25PPM

The tank itself is a Marineland Eclipse System 12. the pump and filtration system consist of a inline pump (at least what I call it) a bio wheel and a filter. The flow seems good to me visually. Its not as strong as the units I see at the LFS and its something that will be changed after I know what I need to learn.

Eventually this tank will move to the kids room for him to do his own tank with and I get to move up to a larger tank.

About whether it was molts or not I can't say for sure with 100% but I'd swear it was a live crab. I know what you are talking about when you say the look similar especially with the current but I'd swear he was fighting back but that may have been just eyes playing tricks on me.

[Sk8r]

The reason you're seeing ammonia [bad] is because your tank isn't processing it yet.
Look up the threads in this list to the very top. You'll see two threads with the * symbol in front of them.
Read both of those and they'll tell you a raft of need-to-knows.

Run some carbon. That will remove the ammonia, which is bad stuff.

[HumanIMDB]

Sounds like a good system. I think there are a few mods that you can do for it that will help. (i.e. remove the biowheel and put live rock rubble in the filter chamber like Nanz mentioned)

Adding a powerhead will help with the flow. I'd put it on a timer with a randomization feature (Home Depot) to really stir things up.

Remember the Trials of Life videos in the 90's...the same thing happens everyday in your tank.

[Savas]

I have the Eclipse 6 and here is what I would do. Do a gallon water change right now and change the filter every 3 weeks. Get a small media bag and fill it with some additional carbon or buy Purigen reusable media in a filter bag ($8 at PetSmart). Put this under the Eclipse filter - the media bag cannot be that full to do this. This will give you some extra protection. Add a MaxiJett to your system to increase current.

In a couple months you can stock this with 2 - 3 small fish, but no more.

[dileggi]

Definitely go as described with the bio-wheel being removed. I had bio balls in my biocube and could never get my nitrates under control. I finally removed, per the advice of a lot of people on here and replaced it with a mixture of LR and rubble in that compartment. It has helped to where I see my nitrates dropping very slowly, but still dropping.

It was suggested, and I'm not sure how true this is, or not...when adding the LR or LR rubble to replace you bio filter, make sure the LR is completely submerged. A few people on here explained to me that if the LR is not submerged, it would act the same as the bio filter and still cause nitrates.

[Savas]

I have run my biowheel with live sand and rubble in it for almost 2 years now. I use no other filtration. Did the same thing to my Aquapods - removed all the filters in lieu of live rock.

[Kermit]

I would say just slow down from this point, let the tank mature and be prepared for occasional losses. Things happen in a reef tank. Don't act to quickly to adjust water chemistry. If you test one day the the ph is low wait a day or so and test again, if it is stable at the lower ph or lower then act to raise it. Sometimes it will go up on it's own. When you get your first tank you tend to watch it way too closely and over react about everything. Animals die and kill and eat each other in nature and the same thing will happen in the tank. Nothing that I see that you have done is deadly other than maybe a tainted water source. Even the bio-wheel will do nothing more than raise your nitrates, which is not good but with water changes should be able to be kept in check. I would still follow the advice given above and ditch it, my tank has no filtration at this point(just liverock and lots of flow).

What was your water source for filling the tank?

[rustybucket145]

You're not too bad off, my only concern would be that the hermits and shrimp don't have anything to eat. Have you fed anything to the tank? Won't take much at all but you do need something.

#1 Add some Live rock. Personally at this point I don't think it matters if it's cured or not, just get some and add it. Even base rock will be better than fake plants and decorations. This is NOT a freshwater tank with a little bubbly treasure chest .

In all seriousness, the advice given here is all pretty reasonable. I'd suggest sitting down and reading..... Bob Fenner has a good book 'The Conscientious Aquariast' But there are multiple others. I'd also suggest reading some of the links to threads that the others here have mentioned. Right now knowledge is your most powerful weapon. Research everything before you do it.

All in all, this isn't very hard, you just need to learn from the experience of others and build your system to be long-lived and healthy.

Best of Luck!!

[Randall_James]

I am with bucket.... You have a tank full of predatory animals with limited food supply.. no telling who or what would survive..

Molts are also possible ...

As for the guys up above warning you about getting flamed? whats that all about? I saw nothing to out of the ordinary for a new tank keeper...

[HumanIMDB]

Just letting him know that sometimes people on here can be unforgiving to newbies, not so much in the newbie forum but other forums...say that you bought Dory for your nano or that you got a SPS/Clam for your 50/50 Compact Fluorescent lit tank and see what kind of responses you get. For some reason, those seem to be the most passionate debates.

While I have been learning for almost two years, I still consider myself a newbie in most things. Having got a SPS for my 96w PC Tank and getting "lightly roasted" over it, I know what it's like.

Like I said, mostly everyone on here is great, that's why I love RC...but there are occasions when it's best to be wearing asbestos.

[Trebora]

Thanks guys. I think the key thing I'm going to have to learn is patience. One last question for this thread. So I've realized that I should have gotten the live rock to begin with.

From what I understand for a 12 gallon tank i should go with around 10-14 lbs of rock. After I let it cure for a while how much should i put in at a time assuming that the shrimp and 4 remaining crabs are still alive.

On a side note, yep shrimpzilla ate em. I found the empty shell.

[HumanIMDB]

It depends on the type of live rock...Fiji is more dense so you might be able to get 20 pounds in your tank where 8 pounds of Marshall Island rock, which is very porous, may fill your tank.

For a 12 gallon, or any tank really, you get the rock that looks the best to you and what will fit in your tank.

Because you have things living in your aquarium already, I would stick with the cured live rock.

[ljosh]

Don't forget to add some empty shells for your hermit crabs.

[rustybucket145]

No need to cure the liverock for such a new tank. Get it, put it in!!!