Help me build a Fish Room please!!

Volkman · 01/30/2008, 10:07 AM

Ok everybody, I need some help/advice from all you pros out there!! I am currently working with this:

Want to move everything to here:

Currently I have to move a large, sectional couch to get to the sump and equipment under the tank, getting sick of doing that. So I am going to make a Equipment Room downstairs. The tank is in our living room, above a crawl space that leads into this room through here. The wall with the stand I built sits to the right of this opening.

The tank sits roughly above that 4" Support Pipe in the distance. So here is what I was thinking. Running 1"(that big enough?) PVC pipe down from the overflow on the tank, through the crawl space into the closet/room, then having a return pump pushing 2, possibly more return PVC lines back up to the tank. Then I can have all the room in the world for skimmers, Auto top-off's etc.... I have built a stand running the length of the back wall, and allowed for plenty of room underneath for a grow-out tank and auto top-off tanks all while having my sump, fuge, and QT tanks on the top.

Couple of questions though, first off regarding my RODI. Those grey PVC pipes are for the underground sprinkler system that is not hooked up, so those are gone. But I was wondering if I could split-off a pipe for water to the RODI machine from the copper pipe that is supplying water to my softener. Then dump the "waste water" from the RODI back INTO the water softener holding tank? Here's a pic, RODI would be on the same wall.

What do you guys think?

Then secondly, the length of the run is about 25', and will rise about 3' to the ceiling, then about 5' from the bottom of the ceiling to the tank where the water would return into the tank. What suggestions do you guys have for return pumps? It is going to be in a closed room, in the basement, so it does not have to be the quietest pump(wouldn't mind though) and external from the sump.

I am trying to think of anything else at the moment, but my brain is not totally functioning due to the @#$^!@#$% cold here!! So please chime-in here and let me know your ideas! I want to do this once and do it right, so I need yous guys help!! Sorry for the long read! More pictures to follow tonight.

Thanks Everyone!!

MSU Fan · 01/30/2008, 10:33 AM

You got a real nice open set up to work with, and that will make things mmuuuccchhh easier. You're plan seems fine to me. I would go with 1.5" drain pipe so it can't hold up the overflow. You also don't have to run 2 separate return lines - run 1 and split it near the tank.

I believe you can use the waste water from the RO unit to your water softener, so that should be fine. I have my copper cold water supply line to washing machine split off to run the RO unit, so there shouldn't be any prob pulling water from that line.

According to the headloss calculator on the front page, an Iwaki 55 would be pushing 800+ gph if split into two return lines, adding some elbows, bv's, and unions (although I prefer TUBVs myself...). You could even split off the return to recycle into a fuge for extra flow control. HTH

jmart55 · 01/30/2008, 11:33 AM

A nice open basement as opposed to a cramped aquarium stand. I agree I would go to a 1.5" drain and the 55 if your splitting to 2 returns the blueline 40hd if only 1. Regarding the RO, plumbing is easing it just involves finding the right self piercing saddle valve and other fittings. The thing I don't know about is if the softener will put any back pressure on the waste line and if that will effect the rejection rate at all. Someone with more experience might have an answer. Also if you build a short wooden stand maybe 3 feet or so it will make maintenance on the skimmer a little easier. Good luck!

Volkman · 01/30/2008, 01:20 PM

I cannot wait to have everything downstairs!! Neither can my girlfriend!!
1.5" PVC it is!! And a Self-piercing saddle valve, that is what I need!! Sweet!!!
It is good to hear that I should be able to dump the waste water into the softener tank, it is such a waste to just let that go down the drain! As far as back pressure goes, the RODI will just drain into the holding tank of the softener won't it?? Not sure what you mean Jmart55....
I also have a stand built along the back wall for the skimmer, sump and other equipment. So nothing will be on the floor. I will do a sketch tonight as to how everything will sit. I am thinking QT, Sump/fuge and skimmer on the top level, then grow-out and top-off tank below just off the floor. I'll post pics of the stand soon.

Volkman · 01/30/2008, 08:06 PM

Here is a picture of the stand I built for the sump/Fuge. Should be plenty of room for additional tanks underneath. Also put some drywall up that I had left over and put the first coat of Killz Sealer on everything.

One question on the sump though.... none of the baffels go all the way to the bottom, but they have slots for egg-crate. How would you recommend setting up all the equipment. I have a Beckett Skimmer coming in the next week or so that is going to be plumbed externally, so that won't be in the sump, fuge/cheateo in the center, and pumps and other stuff in the side areas? I have some extra sand I was going to put in the bottom?? What do you all think??

\

Thanks everyone!

BeanAnimal · 01/30/2008, 08:23 PM

I would scrap the little sump and go with a BIG rubbermaid stock tank.

An exhaust fan would also be a nice addition.

You can't plumb the RO/DI waste back into the water supply unless you use a pump to do so.

I would run at least (2) 1.5" drain lines from the tank.

OnlyCrimson · 01/30/2008, 08:29 PM

I agree, go with a bigger sump. You'll be happy with all the space and options you will have.

Volkman · 01/30/2008, 08:33 PM

The sump is a 40 gallon sump, not big enough? I was wondering about a exhaust fan, but the room is connected to a crawl space with ventilation, that okay??
Also, why can't I just have the waste ro water trickle back into the container for the salt, next to the softener?

adnup · 01/30/2008, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Volkman
Also, why can't I just have the waste ro water trickle back into the container for the salt, next to the softener?

I may be wrong but I think 1 gallon of product water produces 3 gallons of waste water. So you would fill that 50 gallon holding tank real quickly

BeanAnimal · 01/30/2008, 09:18 PM

1 gallon of product produces at least 4 gallons of waste!

coolfish5 · 01/30/2008, 10:06 PM

I think you would run into problems dumping RO into the softener salt/brine tank. Typically they run with a specific amount of water in there to disolve some of the salt, never completely full. I suppose it might also depend on the frequency at which your softener recharges. The ones I use seem to have a long wait, maybe 7-14 days between regeneration cycles. So I would think you could only add 20 gallons of water at or close to those cycle times.
I could be completely off on the softener though, so I'd just look into it more or call the manufacturer/install company.
I also would still want an exhaust fan. Venting all that humidity under the house is not ideal. I would have concerns of mold growth and such.

bangaii man · 01/30/2008, 10:45 PM

It is great having a fish room in the basement. I wouldn't dump the RO waste into the brine tank, but there has to be an open trap somewhere accessable. Follow that clear line from the back of your softner canister which goes up and into your crawl space. that is the waste line for the backwash cycle of the softner. it usually goes into an open trap where you can easily run your RO waste to.

I would go with the larger drain line, make sure you don't have any vertical runs, use at least the plumbers slope of 1/4" per foot otherwise it could cause a loud flushing sound from you overflows.

I have about 17 feet of head above my pump (pan world external) and it runs great. one thing I did was to add an extra "T" and ball valve off the pump to later add a basement frag tank

another thing that makes live great is a slop sink in the basement if you can put one in it is great

Volkman · 01/31/2008, 05:29 AM

Dang!! There goes my "cool idea" to try and not waste water... I thought I was SO Al Gore there for a minute (I'm Ceral!!) and was going to save the world, dang.....

Oh well, guess I'm running it into the drain, that what you all do?
Also looks like I'm figuring out how to vent the room now too!! I may have to run duct into and out of the crawl space. The room sits directly below our sidewalk that comes into the house. So I would probably have to do some ductwork and drill through the foundation. That should be fun, fiance is going to love that!! "What that big drill for???" "Oh don't worry honey, why don't you go shopping for a couple of hours???!!" HAHA!!
Hey Bangaii Man, how should I have the drains coming from the tank? It will have to drop about 5' from the tank to under the floor to do the run into the equipment room. Are you suggesting angling that somehow to prevent the toilet effect, that what you are saying? I have these special anchors that I can adjust up or down a little to get the slope on the run, so that's not a issue.
Also Bangaii Man, you helped me out with a thread about my Bangaii's breeding a while ago, proud to say we are the proud new parents of a bunch of baby Bangaii's!! So thanks for your help!! You da man!

mountaindew · 01/31/2008, 07:43 AM

volkman,
Are you sure?
"The room sits directly below our sidewalk that comes into the house."
very rare this is in residential construction.

Siffy · 01/31/2008, 07:55 AM

I think he meant not to have any true horizontal runs in the drain. The best thing you could do with your RO waste is build your fiance a flower garden and dump it there. A pressure booster pump to force it into a hot water heater is an option as well, for $100-200. Mine runs into the grass. And it's not quite Al Gore to NOT be wasteful. It's "as he says" and not "as he does". $30k per year for electric and gas at his house. I'm not sure how a water softener affects your lines. Never had to have one. But if it gets near drinking water, there's no way I'd put RO waste into it. Definitely go with the largest sump that makes sense space wise.

bangaii man · 01/31/2008, 08:46 AM

I don't know the proper way to tell you to run your drain line coming out of your tank as long as it's not horizontal I think you're OK I don't know if an angled drop would be any better than a straight vertical one, I was just warning you about the run over to the fish room. I can say from my own system that it was extremely noisy for a while until I realized that the flex tubing under my tank had a bit of a horizontal run and once I angled it out it, it was quiet. If you're going to get a huge drill with probally a diamond core bit . to put in my slop sink I just took that drill and went right through my basement floor slab with a 2" hole, because I just built the house and I know that there is stone under the slab and I'm within a few inches of the interior curtain drain which runs along the inside of the footing and goes to daylight. maybe that would work at your house?

BeanAnimal · 01/31/2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mountaindew
volkman,
Are you sure?
"The room sits directly below our sidewalk that comes into the house."
very rare this is in residential construction.

I see it quite often here in Pittsburgh

Volkman · 01/31/2008, 09:29 AM

The room does sit beneath the sidewalk and the atrium that we have in the front, different for sure, but hey it works!! The foundation is larger then the main foot-print of the house.
Thanks Stiffy for giving me even MORE to do now.... not going to tell her that you think I should make a new flower garden!! jees... thanks!! J/K!!
Gotcha now Bangaii, you are just concerned with the horizontal run, not a big deal to have the vertical pipe completly vertical till it meets the horizontal run, then a 1/4" per foot drop on that! Got it!

01/30/2008, 10:07 AM	#1
Volkman Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Barrington, IL Posts: 418	Help me build a Fish Room please!! Ok everybody, I need some help/advice from all you pros out there!! I am currently working with this: Want to move everything to here: Currently I have to move a large, sectional couch to get to the sump and equipment under the tank, getting sick of doing that. So I am going to make a Equipment Room downstairs. The tank is in our living room, above a crawl space that leads into this room through here. The wall with the stand I built sits to the right of this opening. The tank sits roughly above that 4" Support Pipe in the distance. So here is what I was thinking. Running 1"(that big enough?) PVC pipe down from the overflow on the tank, through the crawl space into the closet/room, then having a return pump pushing 2, possibly more return PVC lines back up to the tank. Then I can have all the room in the world for skimmers, Auto top-off's etc.... I have built a stand running the length of the back wall, and allowed for plenty of room underneath for a grow-out tank and auto top-off tanks all while having my sump, fuge, and QT tanks on the top. Couple of questions though, first off regarding my RODI. Those grey PVC pipes are for the underground sprinkler system that is not hooked up, so those are gone. But I was wondering if I could split-off a pipe for water to the RODI machine from the copper pipe that is supplying water to my softener. Then dump the "waste water" from the RODI back INTO the water softener holding tank? Here's a pic, RODI would be on the same wall. What do you guys think? Then secondly, the length of the run is about 25', and will rise about 3' to the ceiling, then about 5' from the bottom of the ceiling to the tank where the water would return into the tank. What suggestions do you guys have for return pumps? It is going to be in a closed room, in the basement, so it does not have to be the quietest pump(wouldn't mind though) and external from the sump. I am trying to think of anything else at the moment, but my brain is not totally functioning due to the @#$^!@#$% cold here!! So please chime-in here and let me know your ideas! I want to do this once and do it right, so I need yous guys help!! Sorry for the long read! More pictures to follow tonight. Thanks Everyone!! Last edited by Volkman; 01/30/2008 at 10:14 AM.

01/30/2008, 10:33 AM	#2
MSU Fan Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Russellville, TN Posts: 1,645	You got a real nice open set up to work with, and that will make things mmuuuccchhh easier. You're plan seems fine to me. I would go with 1.5" drain pipe so it can't hold up the overflow. You also don't have to run 2 separate return lines - run 1 and split it near the tank. I believe you can use the waste water from the RO unit to your water softener, so that should be fine. I have my copper cold water supply line to washing machine split off to run the RO unit, so there shouldn't be any prob pulling water from that line. According to the headloss calculator on the front page, an Iwaki 55 would be pushing 800+ gph if split into two return lines, adding some elbows, bv's, and unions (although I prefer TUBVs myself...). You could even split off the return to recycle into a fuge for extra flow control. HTH __________________ Craig & Holly 1-29g FW 5-cats, 1-dog (Shepherd Mix) Current Tank Info: To be set up 44g corner pentagon

01/30/2008, 10:06 PM	#11
coolfish5 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Christiansburg, VA Posts: 358	I think you would run into problems dumping RO into the softener salt/brine tank. Typically they run with a specific amount of water in there to disolve some of the salt, never completely full. I suppose it might also depend on the frequency at which your softener recharges. The ones I use seem to have a long wait, maybe 7-14 days between regeneration cycles. So I would think you could only add 20 gallons of water at or close to those cycle times. I could be completely off on the softener though, so I'd just look into it more or call the manufacturer/install company. I also would still want an exhaust fan. Venting all that humidity under the house is not ideal. I would have concerns of mold growth and such. __________________ John Current Tank Info: Reef: 65RR (6x HOT5 Nova Pro). Fresh water: 55 tropical

01/31/2008, 05:29 AM	#13
Volkman Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Barrington, IL Posts: 418	Dang!! There goes my "cool idea" to try and not waste water... I thought I was SO Al Gore there for a minute (I'm Ceral!!) and was going to save the world, dang..... Oh well, guess I'm running it into the drain, that what you all do? Also looks like I'm figuring out how to vent the room now too!! I may have to run duct into and out of the crawl space. The room sits directly below our sidewalk that comes into the house. So I would probably have to do some ductwork and drill through the foundation. That should be fun, fiance is going to love that!! "What that big drill for???" "Oh don't worry honey, why don't you go shopping for a couple of hours???!!" HAHA!! Hey Bangaii Man, how should I have the drains coming from the tank? It will have to drop about 5' from the tank to under the floor to do the run into the equipment room. Are you suggesting angling that somehow to prevent the toilet effect, that what you are saying? I have these special anchors that I can adjust up or down a little to get the slope on the run, so that's not a issue. Also Bangaii Man, you helped me out with a thread about my Bangaii's breeding a while ago, proud to say we are the proud new parents of a bunch of baby Bangaii's!! So thanks for your help!! You da man! Last edited by Volkman; 01/31/2008 at 05:37 AM.

01/31/2008, 07:55 AM	#15
Siffy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: AL Posts: 1,047	I think he meant not to have any true horizontal runs in the drain. The best thing you could do with your RO waste is build your fiance a flower garden and dump it there. A pressure booster pump to force it into a hot water heater is an option as well, for $100-200. Mine runs into the grass. And it's not quite Al Gore to NOT be wasteful. It's "as he says" and not "as he does". $30k per year for electric and gas at his house. I'm not sure how a water softener affects your lines. Never had to have one. But if it gets near drinking water, there's no way I'd put RO waste into it. Definitely go with the largest sump that makes sense space wise. __________________ "When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True Story." Current Tank Info: 29g Mixed Reef with Metal Halide

01/30/2008, 11:33 AM	#3
jmart55 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illisconsin Posts: 172	A nice open basement as opposed to a cramped aquarium stand. I agree I would go to a 1.5" drain and the 55 if your splitting to 2 returns the blueline 40hd if only 1. Regarding the RO, plumbing is easing it just involves finding the right self piercing saddle valve and other fittings. The thing I don't know about is if the softener will put any back pressure on the waste line and if that will effect the rejection rate at all. Someone with more experience might have an answer. Also if you build a short wooden stand maybe 3 feet or so it will make maintenance on the skimmer a little easier. Good luck!

01/30/2008, 01:20 PM	#4
Volkman Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Barrington, IL Posts: 418	I cannot wait to have everything downstairs!! Neither can my girlfriend!! 1.5" PVC it is!! And a Self-piercing saddle valve, that is what I need!! Sweet!!! It is good to hear that I should be able to dump the waste water into the softener tank, it is such a waste to just let that go down the drain! As far as back pressure goes, the RODI will just drain into the holding tank of the softener won't it?? Not sure what you mean Jmart55.... I also have a stand built along the back wall for the skimmer, sump and other equipment. So nothing will be on the floor. I will do a sketch tonight as to how everything will sit. I am thinking QT, Sump/fuge and skimmer on the top level, then grow-out and top-off tank below just off the floor. I'll post pics of the stand soon.

01/30/2008, 08:06 PM	#5
Volkman Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Barrington, IL Posts: 418	Here is a picture of the stand I built for the sump/Fuge. Should be plenty of room for additional tanks underneath. Also put some drywall up that I had left over and put the first coat of Killz Sealer on everything. One question on the sump though.... none of the baffels go all the way to the bottom, but they have slots for egg-crate. How would you recommend setting up all the equipment. I have a Beckett Skimmer coming in the next week or so that is going to be plumbed externally, so that won't be in the sump, fuge/cheateo in the center, and pumps and other stuff in the side areas? I have some extra sand I was going to put in the bottom?? What do you all think?? \ Thanks everyone!

01/30/2008, 08:23 PM	#6
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	I would scrap the little sump and go with a BIG rubbermaid stock tank. An exhaust fan would also be a nice addition. You can't plumb the RO/DI waste back into the water supply unless you use a pump to do so. I would run at least (2) 1.5" drain lines from the tank.

01/30/2008, 08:29 PM	#7
OnlyCrimson Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Royal Oak,Michigan Posts: 863	I agree, go with a bigger sump. You'll be happy with all the space and options you will have.

01/30/2008, 08:33 PM	#8
Volkman Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Barrington, IL Posts: 418	The sump is a 40 gallon sump, not big enough? I was wondering about a exhaust fan, but the room is connected to a crawl space with ventilation, that okay?? Also, why can't I just have the waste ro water trickle back into the container for the salt, next to the softener?

01/30/2008, 09:18 PM	#10
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	1 gallon of product produces at least 4 gallons of waste!

01/30/2008, 10:45 PM	#12
bangaii man Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Storrs,CT Posts: 128	It is great having a fish room in the basement. I wouldn't dump the RO waste into the brine tank, but there has to be an open trap somewhere accessable. Follow that clear line from the back of your softner canister which goes up and into your crawl space. that is the waste line for the backwash cycle of the softner. it usually goes into an open trap where you can easily run your RO waste to. I would go with the larger drain line, make sure you don't have any vertical runs, use at least the plumbers slope of 1/4" per foot otherwise it could cause a loud flushing sound from you overflows. I have about 17 feet of head above my pump (pan world external) and it runs great. one thing I did was to add an extra "T" and ball valve off the pump to later add a basement frag tank another thing that makes live great is a slop sink in the basement if you can put one in it is great

01/31/2008, 07:43 AM	#14
mountaindew Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pueblo, Colorado Posts: 98	volkman, Are you sure? "The room sits directly below our sidewalk that comes into the house." very rare this is in residential construction.

01/31/2008, 08:46 AM	#16
bangaii man Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Storrs,CT Posts: 128	I don't know the proper way to tell you to run your drain line coming out of your tank as long as it's not horizontal I think you're OK I don't know if an angled drop would be any better than a straight vertical one, I was just warning you about the run over to the fish room. I can say from my own system that it was extremely noisy for a while until I realized that the flex tubing under my tank had a bit of a horizontal run and once I angled it out it, it was quiet. If you're going to get a huge drill with probally a diamond core bit . to put in my slop sink I just took that drill and went right through my basement floor slab with a 2" hole, because I just built the house and I know that there is stone under the slab and I'm within a few inches of the interior curtain drain which runs along the inside of the footing and goes to daylight. maybe that would work at your house?

01/31/2008, 09:29 AM	#18
Volkman Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Barrington, IL Posts: 418	The room does sit beneath the sidewalk and the atrium that we have in the front, different for sure, but hey it works!! The foundation is larger then the main foot-print of the house. Thanks Stiffy for giving me even MORE to do now.... not going to tell her that you think I should make a new flower garden!! jees... thanks!! J/K!! Gotcha now Bangaii, you are just concerned with the horizontal run, not a big deal to have the vertical pipe completly vertical till it meets the horizontal run, then a 1/4" per foot drop on that! Got it!