Building an acrylic sump for the first time?

drama07 · 02/08/2008, 06:19 PM

Is it possible to learn and build an acrylic sump for the first time or is this a recipe for disaster :P? I want to make myself a custom sump to accomodate varies compartments but worried that it will one day, while I sleep, begin leaking due to weak seams.

Is it true that once the sump has no leaks, that it'll never leak ever or will I end up going paranoid for the rest of my tank's life?

Also why is it more scary to have a DIY acrylic display tank versus a sump? Why do many attempt the sump but not the display tank even if they were both the same size?

Thank you

drama07 · 02/08/2008, 06:38 PM

bumppp

so committed

firsthesitation · 02/08/2008, 06:46 PM

I think most of the guys on here would tell you there is one guy thats the GOD of custom acrylic work.

http://www.melevsreef.com/

firsthesitation · 02/08/2008, 06:47 PM

sorry, and GALS. Can't be forgetting about the lady reefers out there!!

drama07 · 02/08/2008, 06:51 PM

Yeah I'm familiar with that site but what I'm asking is if I should attempt this. I don't want a huge risk in my hands once my tank is running.

FranktheTankTx · 02/08/2008, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by firsthesitation
I think most of the guys on here would tell you there is one guy thats the GOD of custom acrylic work.

http://www.melevsreef.com/

May be the GOD, but not the best at customer service. Only has responded to less than half of my emails. He lists his email to contact him. I refuse to do business with someone who operates that way. Oh, and I'm not the only one. But, he may very well build good sumps. Quite pricey though.

Building sumps isn't rocket science. You can most definitely build your own. Companies will cut to size and ship the acrylic to you. Check around on the internet.

melev · 02/08/2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drama07
Yeah I'm familiar with that site but what I'm asking is if I should attempt this. I don't want a huge risk in my hands once my tank is running.

For a guy with the word 'drama' in his name, it almost seems like your future will include wet floors no matter what you do.

Sure you can build your own. What you need are a few tools, and the ability to pay attention to detail. If you tend to be meticulous, odds are you can build your own.

Once it is glued and holds water, you are good to go. However, one day it could spring a leak. This happens to the best of us. Pwhitby's 450g acrylic tank (October 2007 Tank Of The Month) just blew out a seam and he's been caring for his livestock in huge holding vats until people purchase the corals.

If a sump does leak, usually the only water on the floor will be from that compartment, not the entire sump. You'll run out of water at some point. Since the floor around the tank will get wet, it isn't hard to notice the problem within a gallon or two of water on tile or in carpeting. The best thing you could do is build the sump, and place it outside or in the garage, and leave it full for a few days. If the area around the sump stays dry, it should be fine.

FrankTheTank - there is only one of me, and many emails go unanswered. I don't know that I'll ever be able to keep up with them all. I do the best that I can with the time I have available.

Justinandkrista · 02/08/2008, 09:35 PM

Hey melev iv been considering on building my own sump and other acrylic things. Witch brand or where would i be able to find acrylic and glue. The stuff i have seen at my local Home Depot is realy flimsy even tho its 3/8 to 1/4 inch thick. I am thinking of building a sump for a 46 bowfront gallon tank and stand. Have you ever tried to make one that small?

_E_ · 02/08/2008, 09:41 PM

Hey Drama. You could always try to build me one and I could test it for you. Hmmmm might take years to make sure it could stand up.
Eric

FranktheTankTx · 02/08/2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melev

FrankTheTank - there is only one of me, and many emails go unanswered. I don't know that I'll ever be able to keep up with them all. I do the best that I can with the time I have available.

Hey, how you handle your business is your business. I just wouldn't work with a guy who choses when and who to respond to. What if I needed some work redone, or had a problem. Customer service is numero uno with me. I'm sure you'll do fine without me... as I have without you. No harm done between us.
We're fellow reefers in my book.

drama07 · 02/09/2008, 12:02 AM

well melev, all i could say is that I'm one that had already experienced the possibilty of tank cracks and floor getting wet like no tommorow(5 gallons), so I guess my name relates to it

So I suppose I can build a sump, but I read some posts in other sites that suggest you practice with scraps for a long time before you could even come close to doing it properly. Something about not doing it right in the molecular level scares me. All the edges need to join perfectly or you're screwed with weak seams that maybe in a month or so will give way.

But then again if I DIY'ed a sump and it lasted for an year I guess I can ship _E_ a sump and charge $300(*cough* melev) along with shipping and customs(yeah, I live in Canada).

SquidHC · 02/09/2008, 12:43 AM

Here's a couple links on reefcentral:

First, a great thread from James @ Envision acrylics. Probably the best custom tank builder in the NW. Read all the way through that and you'll have most all the info you need.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=390652

Something more basic about the "pins" method of gluing
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=169326

and a VERY long thread that has a lot of info:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1

SquidHC · 02/09/2008, 12:48 AM

Also, you DO NOT want to use the "acrylic from Home Depot". Chances are its not even acrylic anyway. You want to use "cell cast acrylic" which you should be able to get from most specialty plastic dealers. You can also go to www.portplastics.com to look at a few things.

melev · 02/09/2008, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Justinandkrista
Hey melev iv been considering on building my own sump and other acrylic things. Witch brand or where would i be able to find acrylic and glue. The stuff i have seen at my local Home Depot is realy flimsy even tho its 3/8 to 1/4 inch thick. I am thinking of building a sump for a 46 bowfront gallon tank and stand. Have you ever tried to make one that small?

My first sumps were made with 1/8" acrylic and I used those under my tank for 1.5 years before replacing them with 'beefy' 1/4" material. For a small sump to fit under your bowfront, 1/4" is fine. 3/8 would be nice if you don't want a top flange/euro-bracing like this one:

That one is under a 29g, if I recall correctly.

melev · 02/09/2008, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by drama07
well melev, all i could say is that I'm one that had already experienced the possibilty of tank cracks and floor getting wet like no tommorow(5 gallons), so I guess my name relates to it

So I suppose I can build a sump, but I read some posts in other sites that suggest you practice with scraps for a long time before you could even come close to doing it properly. Something about not doing it right in the molecular level scares me. All the edges need to join perfectly or you're screwed with weak seams that maybe in a month or so will give way.

But then again if I DIY'ed a sump and it lasted for an year I guess I can ship _E_ a sump and charge $300(*cough* melev) along with shipping and customs(yeah, I live in Canada).

Working with a few scraps, you can find out how it bonds together in an afternoon.

If the seams look good and clear (mostly bubble free), it should hold up for a long time provided you don't do anything that could cause damage. If the sump is built well, so that it isn't flexing and maintains its shape, it should be be something to be trusted.

melev · 02/09/2008, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FranktheTankTx
Hey, how you handle your business is your business. I just wouldn't work with a guy who choses when and who to respond to. What if I needed some work redone, or had a problem. Customer service is numero uno with me. I'm sure you'll do fine without me... as I have without you. No harm done between us.
We're fellow reefers in my book.

I'm glad to hear that.

drama07 · 02/09/2008, 09:43 AM

If its bubble free I'm good? Cool, then I'll give it go soon. Thanks and yeah i know cell cast is the way to go

melev · 02/09/2008, 01:12 PM

Yes, no bubbles is what you want. If you see some, work them out or apply a little #16 inside to reinforce it. #16 is not caulk, and it should be applied sparingly. I buy a small packet of plastic tips at Hobby Lobby for $0.99 so that I can limit how much comes out. As it dries, it will reduce in size by about 33% and as it does, it may draw in air pockets. This is another one of those 'try it out on some scrap joints' to see how it works.

If you have a horrible area, you can always patch that spot with a small piece of acrylic and some weld-on.

drama07 · 02/09/2008, 03:06 PM

alright thanks melv

willyreefer · 02/09/2008, 08:07 PM

Melve, love your web site. Really helped me get the guts to build my own refugium. I have a question, on my 54 Gal corner bow I am going to put a refugium under the tank. Not alot of room. My idea is a sump that is 20" lon 14" wide and 16" tall. To get it to fit the cabinet I need to put about a 45 degree angle on one side. I work in a machine shop so milling wont be a problem. Have you ever glued a seam that is at 45 degrees? Any concerns?

Thanks for all your help.

Willy

willyreefer · 02/09/2008, 08:09 PM

Melev,
Sorry about the spelling.

Willy

melev · 02/09/2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willyreefer
Melve, love your web site. Really helped me get the guts to build my own refugium. I have a question, on my 54 Gal corner bow I am going to put a refugium under the tank. Not alot of room. My idea is a sump that is 20" lon 14" wide and 16" tall. To get it to fit the cabinet I need to put about a 45 degree angle on one side. I work in a machine shop so milling wont be a problem. Have you ever glued a seam that is at 45 degrees? Any concerns?

Thanks for all your help.

Willy

I did one on my angled tank, and it was rather ugly. I'd almost consider heating and bending it, and then sanding or planing the bulge that occurs due to the bent area. It won't be fun, but it should work.

Corner tanks are really tough to sumpify. (Yes, I just made that up)

willyreefer · 02/09/2008, 08:37 PM

melev,
I'm going to have the tank water dump into 4"x5" chimney with LR in it to help with the bubbles. That will be in the first chamber. In that first chamber will also be my skimmer. Then the water flows over and under a bubble baffle into the return section that will house my pump. Next to this is the last chamber that will be the refugium. It will be feed by a ball valve of the return line. I will put teeth on the top edge of the refugium baffle. I got these ideas from your awsome web site. Does everything sound right?

Willy

melev · 02/09/2008, 09:37 PM

It sounds okay to me, as long as....

The baffles between the skimmer section and return section should be 3. Over - Under - Over. My preference is 9" tall and 1" apart, with the middle baffle 1.5" off the floor of the sump.

The baffle for the refugium should be 13" tall, with teeth cut to 12" high. If you make it higher, the water falling down into the return section may create bubbles. Height and GPH can really come into play in this area.

Are you planning to use a Mag 5 as the return? If so, be sure to use 1" plumbing, not 1/2" plumbing as you might expect.

drama07 · 02/09/2008, 10:44 PM

Off topic here, but speaking of plumbing i was wondering if I should get my custom tank drilled for a 1.5" drain or 1" drain. There will be only one drain.

Also what about the return diameter if you already decided that the pump is either a Mag 5,7 or 9, or eheim 1250, 1260, or 1262. Is 1" return the best option?

02/08/2008, 06:46 PM	#3
firsthesitation Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Winona MN Posts: 165	I think most of the guys on here would tell you there is one guy thats the GOD of custom acrylic work. http://www.melevsreef.com/ __________________ Nick There's a reason why blood, sweat and tears are all salty. I have saltwater coursing through my veins. - Melev Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon RR, SPS dominated, Outer Orbit 2x250 (14k)MH 4x54 T5, Bubble King Mini160, Tunze Ozmolator 3155, Eheim 1262

02/08/2008, 06:47 PM	#4
firsthesitation Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Winona MN Posts: 165	sorry, and GALS. Can't be forgetting about the lady reefers out there!! __________________ Nick There's a reason why blood, sweat and tears are all salty. I have saltwater coursing through my veins. - Melev Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon RR, SPS dominated, Outer Orbit 2x250 (14k)MH 4x54 T5, Bubble King Mini160, Tunze Ozmolator 3155, Eheim 1262

02/08/2008, 09:41 PM	#9
_E_ Professional Lurker Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Du Quoin, Illinois Posts: 1,169	Hey Drama. You could always try to build me one and I could test it for you. Hmmmm might take years to make sure it could stand up. Eric __________________ Eric "If you think things can't get worse it's probably only because you lack sufficient imagination." Current Tank Info: 140 DSA with basement sump room

02/09/2008, 12:43 AM	#12
SquidHC Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon, USA Posts: 840	Here's a couple links on reefcentral: First, a great thread from James @ Envision acrylics. Probably the best custom tank builder in the NW. Read all the way through that and you'll have most all the info you need. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=390652 Something more basic about the "pins" method of gluing http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=169326 and a VERY long thread that has a lot of info: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1 __________________ We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams. Current Tank Info: 30x30 cube under construction!

02/09/2008, 12:48 AM	#13
SquidHC Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon, USA Posts: 840	Also, you DO NOT want to use the "acrylic from Home Depot". Chances are its not even acrylic anyway. You want to use "cell cast acrylic" which you should be able to get from most specialty plastic dealers. You can also go to www.portplastics.com to look at a few things. __________________ We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams. Current Tank Info: 30x30 cube under construction!

02/08/2008, 06:19 PM	#1
drama07 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 337	Building an acrylic sump for the first time? Is it possible to learn and build an acrylic sump for the first time or is this a recipe for disaster :P? I want to make myself a custom sump to accomodate varies compartments but worried that it will one day, while I sleep, begin leaking due to weak seams. Is it true that once the sump has no leaks, that it'll never leak ever or will I end up going paranoid for the rest of my tank's life? Also why is it more scary to have a DIY acrylic display tank versus a sump? Why do many attempt the sump but not the display tank even if they were both the same size? Thank you

02/08/2008, 06:38 PM	#2
drama07 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 337	bumppp so committed

02/08/2008, 06:51 PM	#5
drama07 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 337	Yeah I'm familiar with that site but what I'm asking is if I should attempt this. I don't want a huge risk in my hands once my tank is running.

02/08/2008, 09:35 PM	#8
Justinandkrista Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Port Angeles,WA Posts: 691	Hey melev iv been considering on building my own sump and other acrylic things. Witch brand or where would i be able to find acrylic and glue. The stuff i have seen at my local Home Depot is realy flimsy even tho its 3/8 to 1/4 inch thick. I am thinking of building a sump for a 46 bowfront gallon tank and stand. Have you ever tried to make one that small?

02/09/2008, 12:02 AM	#11
drama07 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 337	well melev, all i could say is that I'm one that had already experienced the possibilty of tank cracks and floor getting wet like no tommorow(5 gallons), so I guess my name relates to it So I suppose I can build a sump, but I read some posts in other sites that suggest you practice with scraps for a long time before you could even come close to doing it properly. Something about not doing it right in the molecular level scares me. All the edges need to join perfectly or you're screwed with weak seams that maybe in a month or so will give way. But then again if I DIY'ed a sump and it lasted for an year I guess I can ship _E_ a sump and charge $300(cough melev) along with shipping and customs(yeah, I live in Canada).

02/09/2008, 09:43 AM	#17
drama07 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 337	If its bubble free I'm good? Cool, then I'll give it go soon. Thanks and yeah i know cell cast is the way to go

02/09/2008, 01:12 PM	#18
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Yes, no bubbles is what you want. If you see some, work them out or apply a little #16 inside to reinforce it. #16 is not caulk, and it should be applied sparingly. I buy a small packet of plastic tips at Hobby Lobby for $0.99 so that I can limit how much comes out. As it dries, it will reduce in size by about 33% and as it does, it may draw in air pockets. This is another one of those 'try it out on some scrap joints' to see how it works. If you have a horrible area, you can always patch that spot with a small piece of acrylic and some weld-on.

02/09/2008, 03:06 PM	#19
drama07 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 337	alright thanks melv

02/09/2008, 08:07 PM	#20
willyreefer Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: albany Posts: 22	Melve, love your web site. Really helped me get the guts to build my own refugium. I have a question, on my 54 Gal corner bow I am going to put a refugium under the tank. Not alot of room. My idea is a sump that is 20" lon 14" wide and 16" tall. To get it to fit the cabinet I need to put about a 45 degree angle on one side. I work in a machine shop so milling wont be a problem. Have you ever glued a seam that is at 45 degrees? Any concerns? Thanks for all your help. Willy

02/09/2008, 08:09 PM	#21
willyreefer Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: albany Posts: 22	Melev, Sorry about the spelling. Willy

02/09/2008, 08:37 PM	#23
willyreefer Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: albany Posts: 22	melev, I'm going to have the tank water dump into 4"x5" chimney with LR in it to help with the bubbles. That will be in the first chamber. In that first chamber will also be my skimmer. Then the water flows over and under a bubble baffle into the return section that will house my pump. Next to this is the last chamber that will be the refugium. It will be feed by a ball valve of the return line. I will put teeth on the top edge of the refugium baffle. I got these ideas from your awsome web site. Does everything sound right? Willy

02/09/2008, 09:37 PM	#24
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	It sounds okay to me, as long as.... The baffles between the skimmer section and return section should be 3. Over - Under - Over. My preference is 9" tall and 1" apart, with the middle baffle 1.5" off the floor of the sump. The baffle for the refugium should be 13" tall, with teeth cut to 12" high. If you make it higher, the water falling down into the return section may create bubbles. Height and GPH can really come into play in this area. Are you planning to use a Mag 5 as the return? If so, be sure to use 1" plumbing, not 1/2" plumbing as you might expect.

02/09/2008, 10:44 PM	#25
drama07 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 337	Off topic here, but speaking of plumbing i was wondering if I should get my custom tank drilled for a 1.5" drain or 1" drain. There will be only one drain. Also what about the return diameter if you already decided that the pump is either a Mag 5,7 or 9, or eheim 1250, 1260, or 1262. Is 1" return the best option?