Powder Blue Tang w/ Ich

MarkHammel · 02/19/2008, 09:33 AM

Hello all,

I'm still relatively new to all of this...

I have a 55g tank FOWLR. Community consists of:

1 Powder Blue Tang (w/ ich)
1 Spanish Hog (looks like he is getting it)
1 Clarks Clown
1 6-lined Wrasse
1 Koran

1 Horseshoe crab
2 Elecrtic blue hermits
and some snails.

I've had the Tang for about 1 week now. He ate as soon as he went in the tank and has had a decent diet of mysis and this algae seaweed my LFS recommended.

Last night, I noticed he was rubbing against some LR but he ate fine as usual.

This morning, he is covered in small white dots which seem to be spreading to the Spanish Hog. I did some reading this morning and I understand I should quarantine the other fish who are not affected but I don't have another tank. I can go out and pick up new equipment if needed but I would like solid advice on exactly how to handle this situation. Bad timing... I know the Tang needs more room and I am talking to my LFS about upgrading to a 90g. Hope the tight quarters didn't stress him out.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

MYDRAAL · 02/19/2008, 09:43 AM

All fish have to be quarantined and treated. The tank needs to be left fishless for the next 6 weeks. Sorry, there's no way around this. If you wait it out you'll always have to worry about introducing new fish and them not being able to fight it out. Good luck!

dsn112 · 02/19/2008, 09:57 AM

As nice as those fish look, they always have Ich. I never see any that healthy at any lfs. They are just prone to getting it, I don't think the tank size did it to be honest.

OranguTang · 02/19/2008, 10:02 AM

Well, I am not sure that the tank size did it as well...but even upgrading to a 90g is still too small for a PBT IMO...

As MYDRAAL said, you need to treat all fish at the same time in order to remove the ich from your tank 100% successfully. In addition to leaving your tank fallow for 4-6 weeks you should also QT all new fish for 4-6 weeks to ensure their health and ensure there is no transmission of disease to your display fish.

Good luck

MarkHammel · 02/19/2008, 10:14 AM

Thanks guys. I just learned the hard way about the value of a quarantine tank.

Ok, so it looks like I should treat them in the current tank and not introduce any new fish for quite some time. I'll just leave it alone for a good 2 months.

What is your recommendation on treating the tank?

I'm seeing a lot of conflicting info and it would be great to have a consensus on recommended treatment.

I keep the temp at 78 and the salinity is about 1.022. I have 55lbs of LR in the tank (no sump) w/ 2 power heads.

What product do you recommend? Whould your raise/lower the temp? Any advice?

Thanks again.

OranguTang · 02/19/2008, 10:15 AM

Do you have any inverts or coral?

MarkHammel · 02/19/2008, 10:19 AM

No coral. Only living occupants other than fish are the 2 electric hermit crabs, a horseshoe crab, and like 5 snails.

OranguTang · 02/19/2008, 10:22 AM

Edit: Actually I take that back. That would kill off the bacteria. Check articles all over the net for hyposalinity treatment and you will find many good guides to correct treatment. Just setup a QT tank.

blumarlin · 02/19/2008, 10:25 AM

IMO, I would take the horseshoe crab back to to lfs. They grow very fast (up to a foot or more) & do not have a good survial rate even in very large aquariums.
Since you dont have a qt (which is a must in this hobby, but we all learn by experience

, been there myself). Maybe u can lower the sailinty (hyposalinty) in your main tank. But only if you have no other corals & take out your inverterbrates. Do you have live rock or a sump?
Maybe someone else can pipe in & give you better advice, as I am pretty much a newbie myself & learning something new every day.
BTW, blue tangs are "ich magnets" & even in a 200 gal are most likely to get ich when intoduced to a new tank.
Good luck!

blumarlin · 02/19/2008, 10:34 AM

oops, I'm a really slow "typer". Seems like your question has already been answered. Do some research on hyposailinty & it will walk u through it. But start asap, as ick can move very quickly.
Also, add garlic (such as Garlic Guard) to your fishes food. It will help to build up their immune system.

MarkHammel · 02/19/2008, 10:38 AM

Thanks guys.

Just found this article in hyposalinity:
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...osalinity.html

Ok, so this is my leading method of attack right now pending some more research. If all goes well, I can keep all inhabitants (I'll consider the advice to return the horseshoe crab -- that was another mistake - my daughter liked it).

And I guess I have to think about returning the tang.... sucks, he does have an awesome appearance.

MarkHammel · 02/19/2008, 10:40 AM

(thanks blumarlin -- yea, I just learned about garlic from my LFS. I've been putting one drop in when I do mysis shrimp feeding and I've been soaking the seaweek I bought for the tang in saltwater w/ 2 drops of that stuff. It is potent!)

goldmaniac · 02/19/2008, 03:12 PM

take a big clove of fresh garlic and mince it and toss it into your tank, once a day. do it every day for a week. then see if you need to remove all fish and leave the tank fishless for 6 weeks.

In my opinion, keeping a tank Ich-free is futile. I've never removed every fish out of a system, and my tank / tangs are fine. Once in a while a ich breakout will occur if two semi-aggressive fish are introduced to each other, but the garlic treatment helps them recover and I can't remember the last time any of my fish had ich

\ not interested in an Ich debate: garlic treatment does NOT kill ich. it greatly helps fish recover. Hypo and copper are the only things that will eliminate Ich IF that's your goal

i use 2 cloves per day in my 170 gallon system if ich appears. water smells like garlic but that's ok.

george81 · 02/19/2008, 04:51 PM

why dont you be more responsible and get the tang out of you re tiny tank before you kill it. Research animals prior to purchase. If i had child locked him or her in a 3X2x2 room for the rest of their life what would you think? this is a living animals with needs. that you cannot meet with you re 55 gallon...you are taking care of life. be more responsible.

MarkHammel · 02/19/2008, 08:32 PM

Goldmaniac - thanks for the garlic recommendation.

George - you no nothing about me and how responsible I am other than I put a tang in a 55g. I have done a significant amount of research and all of us are bound to make mistakes from time to time - especially with this hobby so relax. My LFS recommended the tang and the guy is quite credible. There are some sites that claim a 55g is suitable for a tang but that doesn't seem to be the consensus on this site and I am listening to what people are saying.

If you pick on people for every mistake they make - you can have a field day in here. This is the "new to the hobby" section so you should allow for people like me to have some growing pains.

Thanks again to everyone that helped today. I picked up a 20g for a quarantine on the way home from work tonight...

george81 · 02/19/2008, 08:36 PM

i m not picking on you, i am telling you to be more responsible, reference you re research to me that states any tang of any size is good in a 55 gallon. It is you re responsibility to research animals..not you re LFS. sorry its hard to hear but tangs require a minimum of 100 gallons. so you purchasing that tang without research is irresponsible

dsn112 · 02/19/2008, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by george81
i m not picking on you, i am telling you to be more responsible, reference you re research to me that states any tang of any size is good in a 55 gallon. It is you re responsibility to research animals..not you re LFS. sorry its hard to hear but tangs require a minimum of 100 gallons. so you purchasing that tang without research is irresponsible

Easy Ehh!

As you are correct and Tangs have requirements, he made a mistake, of course he couldnt have gotten a yellow tang or a kole which wouldnt have been so bad in a 55, but the powder blue is almost as bad as getting a naso in a 75.

Mark, keep in mind that as reputable as an LFS can be, they are in the business of making money, and frankley, alot of them want fish to not last, so they can blame it on something stupid like lack of trace elements, sell you some fix it in a bottle and a new fish.

Tangs are tough on here. People will flame you if you dont have 100g or more. That doesnt mean you cant have one, just be careful of which ones you get. The powder blue happens to be a very fast grower and will quickly outgrow your tank. A very small yellow is your safest bet if you really want a tang.

Good luck with the Ich, and remember that most tangs(at least the popular ones, are prone to it.)

Dave

RBU1 · 02/19/2008, 09:04 PM

Yeah EASY George. The person came on here looking for help lets not bash him/her. In my expierience tangs are more prone to ick. But in my opinion ick has to be present in a system for the fish to get it. Now that your main tank has ick the only way to get rid off it would be to remove all fish from the display for 8 weeks. This is usually not practical for most of us. So what I would do is invest in some cleaners like gobies and shrimp. Let nature take care of the problem. I have had no luck at all with any of those reef safe cures. In my opinion the only things that work on ick are Hyposalinity and copper with Hypo being the easiest on the fish. Also make sure you feed a good diet to your fish and saok the food in garlic and vitamin c. A good diet goes a long way to keeping fish healthy. I recently sarted making my own food and my fish love it.......Call me crazy......

george81 · 02/19/2008, 09:20 PM

i m not bashing anyone, you grow from you re mistakes, there was not one person here who pointed out that his tank was too small for a tang so i did. i pointed out he made a mistake by not researching and impulse buying...i just wanted to drive the point home by comparing something people wouldnt do ie lock a human in a small room to whats happening with the tang...take it as a bash if you like it certainly was not intended that way.

trdofwrkin · 02/19/2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkHammel
Goldmaniac - thanks for the garlic recommendation.

George - you no nothing about me and how responsible I am other than I put a tang in a 55g. I have done a significant amount of research and all of us are bound to make mistakes from time to time - especially with this hobby so relax. My LFS recommended the tang and the guy is quite credible. There are some sites that claim a 55g is suitable for a tang but that doesn't seem to be the consensus on this site and I am listening to what people are saying.

If you pick on people for every mistake they make - you can have a field day in here. This is the "new to the hobby" section so you should allow for people like me to have some growing pains.

Thanks again to everyone that helped today. I picked up a 20g for a quarantine on the way home from work tonight...

I have had 2 pbts. I bought one for a surprise for my father in law. H e has a 200g tank. He has been in saltwater for years. I believe at least 15 years....I had it in quarantine for 30 days. I was about to give it to him and it got ich. Only fish in the qt and only fish to ever be in there. He got thru that ok. meds were done and he died 2 days later. I have no idea why. I talked to my father in law and he said thats why he never had one. they die to easily.
Oh and by the way dont let george81 get all over you. He did the same to me without knowing where the fish was going. He just assumed he knew where...just some info.....

MarkHammel · 02/19/2008, 11:28 PM

Thanks everyone ... this site is awesome. However, it looks like the last laugh is on me. On the way home tonight, I picked up a 20g tank with the intent to create a quarantine tank for my inverts so I could start the hypo-salinity process in my main tank... well, I was happy to see that all of those small white dots were off the pbt. It was totally covered this morning! All fish ate normally tonight so to be honest, I don't have a clue as to what was on two of them this morning. I'm embarrassed to even post this here for fear of getting ragged on! haha.

At the end of the day -- I have a new friend in George and a quarantine tank in the works. Yes George -- I will definitely do more research before future purchases.

suzimcmullen · 02/19/2008, 11:37 PM

Well no one NEEDED to point out that his tank was too small because he said that in his first post. What a jerky thing to do! There...no one pointed out that you are being a jerk. So I just did. He even said he hoped that wasn't the reason!

Suzi

suzimcmullen · 02/19/2008, 11:40 PM

Those spots can come and go! I've been battling it all week on a clown fish and the spots did come and go. They drop off, fall to the bottom and breed just to go and look for another host fish or go back to the host fish they came from. So be prepared.

My fish has his color back tonight and he's swimming with the pack instead of by himself. He's eating again too.

Suzi

goldmaniac · 02/20/2008, 08:03 AM

Happy to hear your PBT is doing well again - they're a delicate species to maintain... good luck. I've only had one before, early in my hobby experience, he was georgeous but did succumb (sp?) eventually.
I still suggest the fresh garlic treatment as a first line of defense... if it occurs again.

The_Browns · 02/20/2008, 08:19 AM

Why is it people always has to complain about Tangs and tank size? It's someone elses tank, their money, their business. If they want to buy the tang, bring it home and fillet it for dinner, it's no ones business. Anytime a tang is mentioned in a thread someone complains about the tank size.

02/19/2008, 09:33 AM	#1
MarkHammel Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 71	Powder Blue Tang w/ Ich Hello all, I'm still relatively new to all of this... I have a 55g tank FOWLR. Community consists of: 1 Powder Blue Tang (w/ ich) 1 Spanish Hog (looks like he is getting it) 1 Clarks Clown 1 6-lined Wrasse 1 Koran 1 Horseshoe crab 2 Elecrtic blue hermits and some snails. I've had the Tang for about 1 week now. He ate as soon as he went in the tank and has had a decent diet of mysis and this algae seaweed my LFS recommended. Last night, I noticed he was rubbing against some LR but he ate fine as usual. This morning, he is covered in small white dots which seem to be spreading to the Spanish Hog. I did some reading this morning and I understand I should quarantine the other fish who are not affected but I don't have another tank. I can go out and pick up new equipment if needed but I would like solid advice on exactly how to handle this situation. Bad timing... I know the Tang needs more room and I am talking to my LFS about upgrading to a 90g. Hope the tight quarters didn't stress him out. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

02/19/2008, 09:57 AM	#3
dsn112 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,139	As nice as those fish look, they always have Ich. I never see any that healthy at any lfs. They are just prone to getting it, I don't think the tank size did it to be honest. __________________ I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I got it all!! Current Tank Info: Fluval Edge w LED freshwater. Looking at doing a 20-40g long penninsula fowlr soon

02/19/2008, 10:02 AM	#4
OranguTang NULL Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 977	Well, I am not sure that the tank size did it as well...but even upgrading to a 90g is still too small for a PBT IMO... As MYDRAAL said, you need to treat all fish at the same time in order to remove the ich from your tank 100% successfully. In addition to leaving your tank fallow for 4-6 weeks you should also QT all new fish for 4-6 weeks to ensure their health and ensure there is no transmission of disease to your display fish. Good luck __________________ -Marc

02/19/2008, 10:15 AM	#6
OranguTang NULL Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 977	Do you have any inverts or coral? __________________ -Marc

02/19/2008, 10:22 AM	#8
OranguTang NULL Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 977	Edit: Actually I take that back. That would kill off the bacteria. Check articles all over the net for hyposalinity treatment and you will find many good guides to correct treatment. Just setup a QT tank. __________________ -Marc

02/19/2008, 09:43 AM	#2
MYDRAAL Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: FWB Posts: 396	All fish have to be quarantined and treated. The tank needs to be left fishless for the next 6 weeks. Sorry, there's no way around this. If you wait it out you'll always have to worry about introducing new fish and them not being able to fight it out. Good luck!

02/19/2008, 10:14 AM	#5
MarkHammel Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 71	Thanks guys. I just learned the hard way about the value of a quarantine tank. Ok, so it looks like I should treat them in the current tank and not introduce any new fish for quite some time. I'll just leave it alone for a good 2 months. What is your recommendation on treating the tank? I'm seeing a lot of conflicting info and it would be great to have a consensus on recommended treatment. I keep the temp at 78 and the salinity is about 1.022. I have 55lbs of LR in the tank (no sump) w/ 2 power heads. What product do you recommend? Whould your raise/lower the temp? Any advice? Thanks again.

02/19/2008, 10:19 AM	#7
MarkHammel Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 71	No coral. Only living occupants other than fish are the 2 electric hermit crabs, a horseshoe crab, and like 5 snails.

02/19/2008, 10:25 AM	#9
blumarlin Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Orange Beach, Al Posts: 149	IMO, I would take the horseshoe crab back to to lfs. They grow very fast (up to a foot or more) & do not have a good survial rate even in very large aquariums. Since you dont have a qt (which is a must in this hobby, but we all learn by experience , been there myself). Maybe u can lower the sailinty (hyposalinty) in your main tank. But only if you have no other corals & take out your inverterbrates. Do you have live rock or a sump? Maybe someone else can pipe in & give you better advice, as I am pretty much a newbie myself & learning something new every day. BTW, blue tangs are "ich magnets" & even in a 200 gal are most likely to get ich when intoduced to a new tank. Good luck! __________________ Just wanted a saltwater aquarium. Didnt know I had to be a chemist... Current Tank Info: 72 gal bowfront, Lighting: 4x54 T5, 10k, 4 lunar lights

02/19/2008, 10:34 AM	#10
blumarlin Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Orange Beach, Al Posts: 149	oops, I'm a really slow "typer". Seems like your question has already been answered. Do some research on hyposailinty & it will walk u through it. But start asap, as ick can move very quickly. Also, add garlic (such as Garlic Guard) to your fishes food. It will help to build up their immune system. __________________ Just wanted a saltwater aquarium. Didnt know I had to be a chemist... Current Tank Info: 72 gal bowfront, Lighting: 4x54 T5, 10k, 4 lunar lights

02/19/2008, 10:38 AM	#11
MarkHammel Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 71	Thanks guys. Just found this article in hyposalinity: http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...osalinity.html Ok, so this is my leading method of attack right now pending some more research. If all goes well, I can keep all inhabitants (I'll consider the advice to return the horseshoe crab -- that was another mistake - my daughter liked it). And I guess I have to think about returning the tang.... sucks, he does have an awesome appearance.

02/19/2008, 10:40 AM	#12
MarkHammel Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 71	(thanks blumarlin -- yea, I just learned about garlic from my LFS. I've been putting one drop in when I do mysis shrimp feeding and I've been soaking the seaweek I bought for the tang in saltwater w/ 2 drops of that stuff. It is potent!)

02/19/2008, 03:12 PM	#13
goldmaniac Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 1,567	take a big clove of fresh garlic and mince it and toss it into your tank, once a day. do it every day for a week. then see if you need to remove all fish and leave the tank fishless for 6 weeks. In my opinion, keeping a tank Ich-free is futile. I've never removed every fish out of a system, and my tank / tangs are fine. Once in a while a ich breakout will occur if two semi-aggressive fish are introduced to each other, but the garlic treatment helps them recover and I can't remember the last time any of my fish had ich \ not interested in an Ich debate: garlic treatment does NOT kill ich. it greatly helps fish recover. Hypo and copper are the only things that will eliminate Ich IF that's your goal i use 2 cloves per day in my 170 gallon system if ich appears. water smells like garlic but that's ok.

02/19/2008, 04:51 PM	#14
george81 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: canada Posts: 254	why dont you be more responsible and get the tang out of you re tiny tank before you kill it. Research animals prior to purchase. If i had child locked him or her in a 3X2x2 room for the rest of their life what would you think? this is a living animals with needs. that you cannot meet with you re 55 gallon...you are taking care of life. be more responsible.

02/19/2008, 08:32 PM	#15
MarkHammel Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 71	Goldmaniac - thanks for the garlic recommendation. George - you no nothing about me and how responsible I am other than I put a tang in a 55g. I have done a significant amount of research and all of us are bound to make mistakes from time to time - especially with this hobby so relax. My LFS recommended the tang and the guy is quite credible. There are some sites that claim a 55g is suitable for a tang but that doesn't seem to be the consensus on this site and I am listening to what people are saying. If you pick on people for every mistake they make - you can have a field day in here. This is the "new to the hobby" section so you should allow for people like me to have some growing pains. Thanks again to everyone that helped today. I picked up a 20g for a quarantine on the way home from work tonight...

02/19/2008, 08:36 PM	#16
george81 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: canada Posts: 254	i m not picking on you, i am telling you to be more responsible, reference you re research to me that states any tang of any size is good in a 55 gallon. It is you re responsibility to research animals..not you re LFS. sorry its hard to hear but tangs require a minimum of 100 gallons. so you purchasing that tang without research is irresponsible

02/19/2008, 09:04 PM	#18
RBU1 Moving on Up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Southern NJ Posts: 5,167	Yeah EASY George. The person came on here looking for help lets not bash him/her. In my expierience tangs are more prone to ick. But in my opinion ick has to be present in a system for the fish to get it. Now that your main tank has ick the only way to get rid off it would be to remove all fish from the display for 8 weeks. This is usually not practical for most of us. So what I would do is invest in some cleaners like gobies and shrimp. Let nature take care of the problem. I have had no luck at all with any of those reef safe cures. In my opinion the only things that work on ick are Hyposalinity and copper with Hypo being the easiest on the fish. Also make sure you feed a good diet to your fish and saok the food in garlic and vitamin c. A good diet goes a long way to keeping fish healthy. I recently sarted making my own food and my fish love it.......Call me crazy......

02/19/2008, 09:20 PM	#19
george81 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: canada Posts: 254	i m not bashing anyone, you grow from you re mistakes, there was not one person here who pointed out that his tank was too small for a tang so i did. i pointed out he made a mistake by not researching and impulse buying...i just wanted to drive the point home by comparing something people wouldnt do ie lock a human in a small room to whats happening with the tang...take it as a bash if you like it certainly was not intended that way.

02/19/2008, 11:28 PM	#21
MarkHammel Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 71	Thanks everyone ... this site is awesome. However, it looks like the last laugh is on me. On the way home tonight, I picked up a 20g tank with the intent to create a quarantine tank for my inverts so I could start the hypo-salinity process in my main tank... well, I was happy to see that all of those small white dots were off the pbt. It was totally covered this morning! All fish ate normally tonight so to be honest, I don't have a clue as to what was on two of them this morning. I'm embarrassed to even post this here for fear of getting ragged on! haha. At the end of the day -- I have a new friend in George and a quarantine tank in the works. Yes George -- I will definitely do more research before future purchases.

02/19/2008, 11:37 PM	#22
suzimcmullen Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 890	Well no one NEEDED to point out that his tank was too small because he said that in his first post. What a jerky thing to do! There...no one pointed out that you are being a jerk. So I just did. He even said he hoped that wasn't the reason! Suzi

02/19/2008, 11:40 PM	#23
suzimcmullen Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 890	Those spots can come and go! I've been battling it all week on a clown fish and the spots did come and go. They drop off, fall to the bottom and breed just to go and look for another host fish or go back to the host fish they came from. So be prepared. My fish has his color back tonight and he's swimming with the pack instead of by himself. He's eating again too. Suzi

02/20/2008, 08:03 AM	#24
goldmaniac Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 1,567	Happy to hear your PBT is doing well again - they're a delicate species to maintain... good luck. I've only had one before, early in my hobby experience, he was georgeous but did succumb (sp?) eventually. I still suggest the fresh garlic treatment as a first line of defense... if it occurs again.

02/20/2008, 08:19 AM	#25
The_Browns Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Winter Garden, FL Posts: 1,046	Why is it people always has to complain about Tangs and tank size? It's someone elses tank, their money, their business. If they want to buy the tang, bring it home and fillet it for dinner, it's no ones business. Anytime a tang is mentioned in a thread someone complains about the tank size.