my clowns are fighting alot, what do i do ?

[msu spartan]

i had the 1st one for a while and the 2nd one i added about 3 weeks ago

they are occelaris, one is black, one is orange

they are around the same size and the black one who is a little bigger keeps chasing and biting my little orange one

but it looks like the orange one is winning , but black one keeps chasing and attacking


what do i do?

[Fish_wiz2]

Hey msu spartan what's up but back to business separate the less aggressive one using a breeder net but make sure the other one sees him then soon the aggressive one will ignore him and that's when you can release the other one and they should pair if not then they can't work out.

[msu spartan]

thanks fishwizz

[Fish_wiz2]

Na it's cool just trying to help a bother out

[Larah]

Bump

[DragonRage]

They are probably trying to prove who is more dominate, who ever wins will become the female and the male is the other one I belive. Most people try to add a bigger one with a smaller one.

[msu spartan]

the orange one is hiding now, and breathing really fast

ive noticed the fighting since yesterday,

bump if anyone else has info and what could be wrong with my orange one or
is this normal for 2 clowns to fight and decide the sex of the two ?

[tabman2]

Mine were feisty at first, once they break out in a stuttering motion or "waggle" it will probably be all good.

I'd worry more so if one of them was being injured / noticable physical damage, fins, etc.

I've also heard with fish that can be a little territorial such as clowns, it might be a good idea to rearrange some of the rock work. Sometimes it throws them off long enough to get used to eachother. As long as you're not talking 200 lbs of the stuff, I have a smaller tank so it's not too hard to do.

[R.W.]

they could just be deciding who will be the dominate one.

[Tylt33]

If you have two females, one is going to end up dead. If you have two males or a male and a female, they're working on dominance. Are they both eating? Fast breathing is usually a bad sign that means death is on the way.

[msu spartan]

well he was breathing fine 2 days ago, but since the fighting, he seems scared and hiding

[vpotts28]

Although you are a sparty fan I will try to lend some advice (Go Blue). Your clowns are establishing dominance, who will become the female and who will become the male. They are not born with genders, that is determined later. Let them go through the routine, and the more submissive one will know his role. Just keep your eye on it, don't panic just yet. You will know when your fish is dead, you won't see it for a few days or it will be in plain sight lifeless.

[msu spartan]

yea but i dont want it do die

so your saying i should let them work it out even though hes breathing really fast and hiding?

thanks

[vpotts28]

Originally posted by msu spartan
yea but i dont want it do die

so your saying i should let them work it out even though hes breathing really fast and hiding?

thanks

Clownfish are aggresive, just like their family members the damsels. Do you have a QT you can put it in? Or do as many have advised and rearrange your rock work after the lights go off if you are that worried about it. You have two different kinds of clowns and I don't know if they will pair if they are different. There is a forum on this site specifically for anemones and clownfish. You may want to post there, there are some real experts there, which I can't claim to be after only one year.

[msu spartan]

they are the same species, just different colors, alot of people have these, but i dont want to rearrange rockwork because i have a tiny scorpionfish in there til i get his tank setup and dont want to get venomized

but thanks

[vpotts28]

I just read that they are both ocellaris, sorry you caught me skimming. Just watch it for a few days. I can only advise you on how mine act, and I experienced this long ago. Mine are now a year old, and the more dominant still chases and nips at the smaller one.

[DragonRage]

I'd say take it back to your lfs and ask for a smaller/bigger one. If you have a bigger one it's more likely they won't fight because it won't be as evenly matched, and one will give up because of this.

[msu spartan]

the black one isnt alot bigger but i doubt i can take if back after 3 weeks of having him

[BLKTANG]

are these clowns in a 10g?If so thats why they are fighting.

[msu spartan]

no, many people have clown pairs in a 10g, but i dont want to argue

i just want to make sure they both live

[BLKTANG]

Originally posted by msu spartan
no, many people have clown pairs in a 10g, but i dont want to argue

i just want to make sure they both live

Me either peace mang.

What i meant was that if they are in a 10g they should have been introduced at the same time.


Heck at least you had the sence to put cool fish in your 10g,my first reef was a 10g,& i put a Domino Damsel in there,& he killed anything i put in there.That fish is still alive in my buddies 500g sump,& still mean as hell.That was 8 years ago.

Good luck mang.

[msu spartan]

haha thanks

i hope they work it out and become a pair, if not ill have to sell of them to someone else





ooooooo 400 posts

[Tylt33]

Originally posted by msu spartan
yea but i dont want it do die

so your saying i should let them work it out even though hes breathing really fast and hiding?

thanks

Breathing fast and hiding is the last stop before dying. I promise.

[greghigham]

Spartan,
This article, posted by our own JHardman, was very helpful to me when I obtained my Tomato pair. Hope it helps you as well.
Also, as vpotts28 mentions above, there is a great forum here on RC that has lots of info (Anemones & Clownfish forum). Best of success, man...
Pairing Clownfish
One of the most common questions on RC is “how do I pair clownfish�. Pairing clownfish can be a troublesome thing to do or very easy to do. Here are a few things that might help you in this task.

1) You need to understand clownfish sex change and how that effects pairing and interaction. Please refer to http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...threadid=215088 page for sexing FAQ. For further information.

a. Briefly, clownfish are protandrous hermaphrodites. They are hatched as sexually immature fish. Based on signals from their environment and being physically mature (12-24 months) they will either remain sexually immature, change into a male or change into a male then female. This is a one way trip, sexless to male never to be sexless again and male to female never to be male again.

b. A clownfish kept by its self will become a female in a short period of time if it is physically mature, in as little as a month.

2) Two female clowns will fight. The tell tale sign that you have two females is fighting ending in the two locking their mouths together.

Clownfish pairing techniques:
There are a couple of proven techniques to pair same species of clownfish. Mixing species of clownfish should be avoided and has very limited long term (multi-year) success (only one case that I know of and could be considered unsuccessful as at least one clownfish was killed by another clownfish in the tank).

Grow out technique:
With this technique two small juvenile clownfish are purchased at the same time and introduced into the tank at the same time. The fish will establish a dominate submissive relationship as they mature and eventually form a pair bond. This technique works the vast majority of the time.

Notes: Since the fish are going to fight and/or chase each other to establish who is the dominate fish and who is the submissive fish, it will often speed the pairing process and reduce fighting and potential damage to the fish by getting one of the two juveniles larger than the other.

This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.

Add a new clownfish to an existing clownfish technique:
With having an existing clownfish in your tank adding a new clownfish to form a pair can be a little harder or in other words more dangerous to the new fish. The technique is basically the same as the grow out technique. You will want to find a small juvenile clownfish and add it to the tank with the existing tank. By getting a small juvenile fish you are not risking possible sex compatibility problems, e.g. two females.

Example: Existing 3� A. Ocellaris clownfish that has been in the tank by it’s self for over a year. We can assume this fish is a female based on size, age and environment. A ¾� to 1 ½� juvenile from a community tank is added to the tank. The vast majority of the time the new fish will submit to the existing fish with little or no fighting at all.

This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.

Paring Premnas species clownfish (maroon clownfish):
Pairing maroon clowns is much more problematic than pairing Amphiprion species clownfish. Maroons are notorious for being very aggressive towards other clownfish. They are pretty much fearless and will only back down from an all out fight when presented with the overwhelming threat of death.

Separation Technique:
The only technique I am aware of that works the vast majority of the time with the least amount of damage as possible to use a separation and slow acclimation process to introduce a poetical mate to a maroon clownfish.

First you need to have a large female already established in your tank before trying a pairing. The clownfish should be at least 3� from nose to start of the cardinal fin. Next you will need to do a little preparation before buying a potential mate for your maroon. You need something to securely separate the two fish in the same tank while still allowing the fish to see each other and the new fish to get water flow. You can use a clear plastic specimen container with holes drilled in it for example.

Now go to the LFS and find the smallest juvenile maroon from a community tank that you can find. It should be no larger than 1� nose to start of cardinal fin. Acclimate the new maroon just as you would any other fish. Once the new maroon is acclimated to your tanks water, place the new maroon in the specimen container. Let the two fish see each other, place the specimen container near the females territory. Carefully watch the female’s behavior. If she is trying to attack the new fish thru the container, it is not safe to release the new maroon. Give her time to cool off from the disruption to her tank and addition of a foreign clownfish in her tank.

Now that the female has cooled her temper it is time to try an introduction. Get your favorite fish net ready and release the new maroon to the tank. If the fighting gets too bad you will need to rescue the new maroon and place it back in the container and try the next day. If after three failed attempts you can write off the new maroon as incompatible and you will need a new juvenile to try with.

Submissive behavior in clownfish:
As a part of pairing you need to know what submissive behavior is. You will know that you are well on your way to a successful pairing when one fish submits to the other fish. This is especially important behavior to observe in maroon clownfish.

Amphiprion and Premnas species submissive behavior goes something like this… First the dominate fish will rush or otherwise attack the submissive fish. The submissive fish will turn sideways to the dominate fish and tilt its belly towards the dominate fish and quiver like an epileptic seizure. The female should recognize this behavior and stop the attack short of actual damage. Sometimes in new pairings and old well established pair bonds the dominate fish will move to a parallel position to the submissive and quiver back to the submissive fish.

In Premnas species there is an additional submissive behavior that is unique to maroons. When the submissive fish is rushed or otherwise attacked it/he will duck the attack, slip to the side of the female and tenderly kiss her cheek spines and pectoral fins of his beloved female.

Signs that you have a pair bond in your clownfish:
There are a couple of signs that a pair bond has formed and is maturing in your clownfish in addition to submissive behavior. Typically mated pairs (pairs that have a pair bond) will sleep in the same area. They will also host in the same host or stay in the same territory if there is no natural host present. The two fish will stay close to each other the vast majority of the time.

The pair bond is a developing thing. It starts out as a general acceptance of each other. Then slowly develops into a closer relationship were both fish are together most of the time. There is a bickering phase too where the female will make sure the male knows who is the boss. During this time it is not uncommon to find the poor little dejected male cowering near their normal host/territory. But don’t worry this is normal and the male will be accepted back sooner or later. The ultimate end of the pair bond is seen in a spawning event such as nest cleaning or laying of eggs.

References; Clownfishes by Joyce Wilkerson, Anemonefishes by Dr. Gerald Allen, Conditioning spawning and rearing of fish with emphasis on marine clownfish by Dr. Frank Hoff.

[msu spartan]

im not sure if theyve locked mouths yet, i hope not ,because then i have to get rid of the black one