Will "cooking" LR kill apista?

mattsilvester · 02/21/2008, 08:21 AM

Hey folks,

A friend is breaking down his reef tank, and has some really nice LR that he will be practically "giving" away - full of worms and pods and life, generally. The only problem is that he has a bit of an apista problem.

Currently, I am "cooking" my own rock, which will be transferred to the disaply over the next few days. While the facility is set up, I wouldn't mind taking this rock from him and cooking it for 6 weeks, if that would kill off all the apista on it.......

Similarly, I dunno if his rock would have any phosphate / nitrate locked up, after several years use? Would the "cooking" process draw that out? I could easily run a bag of rowa-phos phosphate remover to assis the "leeching" process - if that is likely to be a problem?

Many thanks,

Matt

The_Browns · 02/21/2008, 08:24 AM

Just use Joe's Juice. Worked every time for me.

Harpo · 02/21/2008, 08:48 AM

Quite unlikely to kill the aptasia without also killing all the good life you mentioned. Aptasia can do quite nicely in the dark for a long time.
Mark

mattsilvester · 02/21/2008, 09:33 AM

The_Browns > "Joe's Juice".... dunno if that is available here in Ireland...... if so, it soundsl ike an ideal option.

Harpo > any idea how long a "long time" is?

Think I go ahead with a reduced "cooking" period AND "Joe's Juice" (if I can get it) at the same time..... if I decide to go ahead with taking it from him.......

You how it is..... sometimes a "deal" is just too good to pass up, even when you don;t really need whatever is on offer..... he's got a couple of 6000's streams too

Sk8r · 02/21/2008, 09:37 AM

will not kill aiptasia: two things survived cooking on my rock: aiptasia and caulerpa roots.
They're no big deal. My peps got them. I may have a few in the fuge, but the young won't survive if they get where the peps can find them.
As for phosphate, it will come in on the rock: establish a fuge 1/3 to 1/2 your tank size and that will get it out, over several months.

OranguTang · 02/21/2008, 09:38 AM

Joes Juice is just a temprary "fix" to keep aiptasia at bay....

The sure fire %100 way would be to completely dry out the rock, rinse it clean, and re-cure it. That would be my suggestion.

It would be rather hard for you to catch every aiptasia big and small. Some will be in places you can not see.

Unless...you want that stuff in your tank

somethingphishy · 02/21/2008, 09:40 AM

if the aptasia is not a huge infestation i would try seperating the pieces out before cooking it all......seems like too much of a waste to kill everthing...you could just cook the infested pieces.....
If you are looking to put some more effort into this.......
depending on the amount of rock your getting you could set up a small tank an inject those suckers w/ joe's juice...this would give you the chance to cycle the rock, make sure it does not spread in your dispaly tank, and draw out any inpurities while ridding the rock of aptasia and keeping the rock alive.....

Gdevine · 02/21/2008, 09:41 AM

If you cook that rock you're going to kill a huge amount, if not all, the life. Just go get a few Peppermint Shrimp (Lysmata Wurdemanni) and they will do the job. When you add the shrimp cut back on any feedings as the shrimp will eat more attractive fair and leave the aptasi alone. However, when they do get hungry they will eat all the aptasia they can find.

Some people have a "hit and miss" experience with Peppermint's and it's only because they are overfeeding their tanks and the shrimp don't eat what is natural to them.

Note: All Lysmata Wurdemanni eat aptasia!

mattsilvester · 02/21/2008, 09:51 AM

thanks for all the input guys......

I suppose I am lucky that I have not yet seen a single apista on any of my rock (about 150 to 200 lbs) in about 10 months..... which is why I am nervous about introducing this stuff.....

peppermint shrimps....... yes, have heard mixed views on these guys....... as far as cuttign down on food to encuorage them to eat apista...... well that would encourage my fish to eat the shrimps!

I am not really willing to put in hours of labour into this to be honest..... it would not be worth the effort really - I would rather get a box of good LR and cure it myself / cook it, and have little or no apista to be heonst, if its going to be a high risk / high labour job.....

sk8r - would love to set up a giant DSB / fuge with macro etc. but I simply do not have the space for it really.......

Thanks guys

Aquabucket · 02/21/2008, 10:06 AM

You could cook the rock with peppermints. Peps love the dark and as long as you kept the rock bin heated and do some water changes they should do well.

mattsilvester · 02/21/2008, 10:26 AM

aquabucket - that sounds like a good idea

how many shrimps do you reckon would be needed to "clean" about 80lbs of rock?

cheers,

Matt

Aquabucket · 02/21/2008, 10:41 AM

4 - 6 should do it depending on how big they are.

mattsilvester · 02/21/2008, 10:43 AM

So..... what I gotta do is add up how much a half dozen pep-shrimps cost, plus the cost of buying the rock from my buddy, and see how much it compares to some new fresh stuff

Cheers,

Matt

Gdevine · 02/21/2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mattsilvester
aquabucket - that sounds like a good idea

how many shrimps do you reckon would be needed to "clean" about 80lbs of rock?

cheers,

Matt

Six.

What I meant about cutting back on feeding was not starving your fish, just cut back so that all the food is eaten in half the time as usual for a few days and watch what happens

When peps don't eat aptasia it's because they are usually eating food that has made it to the send bed or corals where the fish cant' get to it. Just remember, all peps eat aptasia.

Gdevine · 02/21/2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mattsilvester
So..... what I gotta do is add up how much a half dozen pep-shrimps cost, plus the cost of buying the rock from my buddy, and see how much it compares to some new fresh stuff

Cheers,

Matt

"New fresh stuff" is not a guarantee that the rock does not have hitch hikers or aptasia for that matter...never a guarantee.

Aquabucket · 02/21/2008, 10:49 AM

You could always cook the rock longer and use less peppermints. 2-3 shrimp could clean-up the rock pretty good depending on how big they are and how bad the aiptasia infestation is.

gman0526 · 02/21/2008, 12:49 PM

If you think that cooking the rock will kill everything in the LR, then you don't know what cooking rock is.

Great idea Aquabucket.

OranguTang · 02/21/2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gdevine
"New fresh stuff" is not a guarantee that the rock does not have hitch hikers or aptasia for that matter...never a guarantee.

Unless he is planning on purchasing dried rock...

mattsilvester · 02/21/2008, 03:18 PM

nope - not dried stuff...... though I might well consider that also...... stick some old dry stuff in a barrel and seed with a few pieces of live stuff and let it fester away for a month or two......

probably going to go with the "old" LR and stick in a few pep shrimps...... just need to chat to my buddy and see what he'll let it go for!

Harpo · 02/21/2008, 08:18 PM

Hi Matt
Lotta replies since you asked how long aptasia can survive "cooking" in the dark. I've had them survive over 3 months and have heard of over 6 months. I like the pepermint shrimp if you can get real ones (lots of look a likes out there) If in a display a good Copperband Butterfly will do a great job. However they'll clean out any tiny feather dusters and some of your worms also. Joe's juice works for me. I inject pool acid into the easy to get to aptasia and then spray Joe's Juice towards the hard to reach ones.
hth, Mark

macronut · 02/21/2008, 09:40 PM

I used Joe's Juice to rid my tank of aiptasia, however i had better results when I used a syringe and needle instead of the applicator the product came with. I was able to inject the base and mouth. I had great results this way. I don't know if you can purchase in Ireland or not. Do a search online for Joes Juice.

02/21/2008, 08:21 AM	#1
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	Will "cooking" LR kill apista? Hey folks, A friend is breaking down his reef tank, and has some really nice LR that he will be practically "giving" away - full of worms and pods and life, generally. The only problem is that he has a bit of an apista problem. Currently, I am "cooking" my own rock, which will be transferred to the disaply over the next few days. While the facility is set up, I wouldn't mind taking this rock from him and cooking it for 6 weeks, if that would kill off all the apista on it....... Similarly, I dunno if his rock would have any phosphate / nitrate locked up, after several years use? Would the "cooking" process draw that out? I could easily run a bag of rowa-phos phosphate remover to assis the "leeching" process - if that is likely to be a problem? Many thanks, Matt __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

02/21/2008, 08:24 AM	#2
The_Browns Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Winter Garden, FL Posts: 1,046	Just use Joe's Juice. Worked every time for me. __________________ Mike & Jenn Current Tank Info: 120g DT and 35g frag tank

02/21/2008, 09:33 AM	#4
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	The_Browns > "Joe's Juice".... dunno if that is available here in Ireland...... if so, it soundsl ike an ideal option. Harpo > any idea how long a "long time" is? Think I go ahead with a reduced "cooking" period AND "Joe's Juice" (if I can get it) at the same time..... if I decide to go ahead with taking it from him....... You how it is..... sometimes a "deal" is just too good to pass up, even when you don;t really need whatever is on offer..... he's got a couple of 6000's streams too __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

02/21/2008, 09:37 AM	#5
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	will not kill aiptasia: two things survived cooking on my rock: aiptasia and caulerpa roots. They're no big deal. My peps got them. I may have a few in the fuge, but the young won't survive if they get where the peps can find them. As for phosphate, it will come in on the rock: establish a fuge 1/3 to 1/2 your tank size and that will get it out, over several months. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

02/21/2008, 09:38 AM	#6
OranguTang NULL Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 977	Joes Juice is just a temprary "fix" to keep aiptasia at bay.... The sure fire %100 way would be to completely dry out the rock, rinse it clean, and re-cure it. That would be my suggestion. It would be rather hard for you to catch every aiptasia big and small. Some will be in places you can not see. Unless...you want that stuff in your tank __________________ -Marc

02/21/2008, 08:48 AM	#3
Harpo Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Butte Valley, Ca Posts: 698	Quite unlikely to kill the aptasia without also killing all the good life you mentioned. Aptasia can do quite nicely in the dark for a long time. Mark

02/21/2008, 09:40 AM	#7
somethingphishy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fleetwood, pa Posts: 852	if the aptasia is not a huge infestation i would try seperating the pieces out before cooking it all......seems like too much of a waste to kill everthing...you could just cook the infested pieces..... If you are looking to put some more effort into this....... depending on the amount of rock your getting you could set up a small tank an inject those suckers w/ joe's juice...this would give you the chance to cycle the rock, make sure it does not spread in your dispaly tank, and draw out any inpurities while ridding the rock of aptasia and keeping the rock alive..... __________________ "Set the gearshift for the high gear Of your soul, you've got to run like An antelope out of control!" Current Tank Info: 50g/20l sump

02/21/2008, 09:41 AM	#8
Gdevine Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 1,232	If you cook that rock you're going to kill a huge amount, if not all, the life. Just go get a few Peppermint Shrimp (Lysmata Wurdemanni) and they will do the job. When you add the shrimp cut back on any feedings as the shrimp will eat more attractive fair and leave the aptasi alone. However, when they do get hungry they will eat all the aptasia they can find. Some people have a "hit and miss" experience with Peppermint's and it's only because they are overfeeding their tanks and the shrimp don't eat what is natural to them. Note: All Lysmata Wurdemanni eat aptasia! __________________ What's good having a monkey if you can't play with it? Current Tank Info: 65g Mixed Reef - 35g Fuge - EcoSystem Method

02/21/2008, 09:51 AM	#9
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	thanks for all the input guys...... I suppose I am lucky that I have not yet seen a single apista on any of my rock (about 150 to 200 lbs) in about 10 months..... which is why I am nervous about introducing this stuff..... peppermint shrimps....... yes, have heard mixed views on these guys....... as far as cuttign down on food to encuorage them to eat apista...... well that would encourage my fish to eat the shrimps! I am not really willing to put in hours of labour into this to be honest..... it would not be worth the effort really - I would rather get a box of good LR and cure it myself / cook it, and have little or no apista to be heonst, if its going to be a high risk / high labour job..... sk8r - would love to set up a giant DSB / fuge with macro etc. but I simply do not have the space for it really....... Thanks guys __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

02/21/2008, 10:06 AM	#10
Aquabucket Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Green Bay, Wi. Posts: 4,455	You could cook the rock with peppermints. Peps love the dark and as long as you kept the rock bin heated and do some water changes they should do well. __________________ "Just a drop in the bucket"

02/21/2008, 10:26 AM	#11
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	aquabucket - that sounds like a good idea how many shrimps do you reckon would be needed to "clean" about 80lbs of rock? cheers, Matt __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

02/21/2008, 10:41 AM	#12
Aquabucket Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Green Bay, Wi. Posts: 4,455	4 - 6 should do it depending on how big they are. __________________ "Just a drop in the bucket"

02/21/2008, 10:43 AM	#13
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	So..... what I gotta do is add up how much a half dozen pep-shrimps cost, plus the cost of buying the rock from my buddy, and see how much it compares to some new fresh stuff Cheers, Matt __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

02/21/2008, 10:49 AM	#16
Aquabucket Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Green Bay, Wi. Posts: 4,455	You could always cook the rock longer and use less peppermints. 2-3 shrimp could clean-up the rock pretty good depending on how big they are and how bad the aiptasia infestation is. __________________ "Just a drop in the bucket"

02/21/2008, 12:49 PM	#17
gman0526 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 1,278	If you think that cooking the rock will kill everything in the LR, then you don't know what cooking rock is. Great idea Aquabucket. __________________ "If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." A.E. Current Tank Info: 75 G BB tank

02/21/2008, 03:18 PM	#19
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	nope - not dried stuff...... though I might well consider that also...... stick some old dry stuff in a barrel and seed with a few pieces of live stuff and let it fester away for a month or two...... probably going to go with the "old" LR and stick in a few pep shrimps...... just need to chat to my buddy and see what he'll let it go for! __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

02/21/2008, 08:18 PM	#20
Harpo Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Butte Valley, Ca Posts: 698	Hi Matt Lotta replies since you asked how long aptasia can survive "cooking" in the dark. I've had them survive over 3 months and have heard of over 6 months. I like the pepermint shrimp if you can get real ones (lots of look a likes out there) If in a display a good Copperband Butterfly will do a great job. However they'll clean out any tiny feather dusters and some of your worms also. Joe's juice works for me. I inject pool acid into the easy to get to aptasia and then spray Joe's Juice towards the hard to reach ones. hth, Mark

02/21/2008, 09:40 PM	#21
macronut Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 405	I used Joe's Juice to rid my tank of aiptasia, however i had better results when I used a syringe and needle instead of the applicator the product came with. I was able to inject the base and mouth. I had great results this way. I don't know if you can purchase in Ireland or not. Do a search online for Joes Juice.