Sump/Fuge

HABS#1 · 03/06/2008, 08:32 PM

So the kids 10 gal system is going to be removed from their room as thjey can't fall asleep with it running in there. So I am going to put all the livestock into our 75 once it is up and running. What do I need to do to turn that 10 gal into a sump/fuge for the 75? I have lots of liverock in it and substrate. I will put in some eggcrate to separate the tank and split it in half and allow flow between the 2 sides. I will just use the hood and lights from that for this thing. What pump etc do you reccomend and overflow box etc.

What should I look for GPH etc any and all reccomendations are welcome.

Blown 346 · 03/06/2008, 08:38 PM

Honestly a 10 gallon is way to small for a sump/fuge combo. I would do atleast a 20 gallon tank.

SCIFI_3D_zoo · 03/06/2008, 08:51 PM

Boy.. I don't know where to begin. You honestly sound like you have done very little research on this.

I guess it's possible to do a 10 gal sump/fuge IF it's really short and wide so you got room. They say you should go with a fuge 10% the size of your tank. So you need almost 8 gal just for that.

You don't have to have a intake area. Your skimmer could be... well you could be without one depending on what sorta livestock you have.. otherwise it could be external. I have seen people with intakes going into a sealed glass/acrylic box in the top corner of their fuge to control the flow from blowing the fuge all over. Otherwise.. you'll need a skimmer area and a skimmer pump area there.

Then you gotta have a fuge at least 4-5 gal. And you need at minimum 3 baffles probably.

THEN a return area at least big enough for a pump.

Doesn't leave you with much room. I think it's possible... with good planning... BUT WHY. Why do it. A tank is so cheap. For a 75 gal... you need a 30 gal tank at least. I just got something myself for my 90gal tank that is a 37gal sump tank BUT it's still only 30" long. I'm having a lot of trouble finding room for everything. THe tank is cheap too. 10gal isn't worth the time. What you could do.. IF you got the space is use that 10 gal for AUTO TOP-OFF. Just do some forums searches here for sumps, refugiums, auto top-off, etc. for more info.

HABS#1 · 03/07/2008, 06:53 AM

No room under the cabinet for anything bigger than a 10 plus I allready have the 10 so I will just make it a fuge then and leave the sump portion. As for the comment on not researching it nope I didn't and personally I have not done anything by the book in this hobby yet. My 31 gal system was thrown together with tap water I used black mollies to cycle it and had a BTA in the system after it was up and cycles only 1 month.

As for the livestock that will be in the 75 it will be as follows
1. Copperband Butterfly
2. Blue Tang (dory)
3. 2 Ocelleris (currently in our 31 gal)
4. 2 Bluegreen Chromis (curretly in our 31 gal)
5. Sand sifting starfish (currently in our 31 gal)
6. cleaner shrimp (currently in our 31 gal)
7. lawnmower blenny (currently in our 31 gal)
8. PJ Cardinal (currently in the 10 gal)
9. Firefish (currently in our 10 gal)
10. BTA (currently in our 31 gal)
11. POM POM Xenia (currently in our 31 gal)
12. Lyretail Anthias
13. Sexy Shrimp
14. zoo colony

Avi · 03/07/2008, 07:14 AM

You can probably manage to squeek through with a refugium to grow Chaeto with a 10-gallon tank since you don't have room for anything bigger. Space-saving measures would have to be taken...For example, you wouldn't be able to put a skimmer in there and you'd be much better off if you had the 10-gallon drilled so that you could plumb the return-pump dry, outside of it. If you did that, then you'd have just about all of the 10-gallon tank available to grow the macro-algae...and fit your heater in there, too.

HABS#1 · 03/07/2008, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Avi
You can probably manage to squeek through with a refugium to grow Chaeto with a 10-gallon tank since you don't have room for anything bigger. Space-saving measures would have to be taken...For example, you wouldn't be able to put a skimmer in there and you'd be much better off if you had the 10-gallon drilled so that you could plumb the return-pump dry, outside of it. If you did that, then you'd have just about all of the 10-gallon tank available to grow the macro-algae...and fit your heater in there, too.

The heaters are going in the 75 I don't want to rely on heated water from the 10 I would rather just run the heaters in the main tank. As for a skimmer I have no plans on using one I don't use on on the 31 and don't plan on it for the 75 either.

SCIFI_3D_zoo · 03/07/2008, 07:39 AM

Take a picture to help us visualize what is going on. I don't get it. I'm picturing this 75 gal tank that's 12" wide... and 6 feet tall.
Take pics of your stand area. If you have height you might have to just stack 2-3 things.

dsn112 · 03/07/2008, 09:16 AM

That tang needs to be in a bigger tank, 100g but preferably a 6' tank. Sumps are designed to add more volume to your overall system and to hide equipment so your display can be free of clutter. Not running a skimmer with that many fish will be disasterous, and you better change a minimum 10g per week without a skimmer. If you ignore the advice and get the tang, and the rest of that list of livestock, you will really need to rethink that skimmer thought. Its easier to run skimmerless on a small tank.

SCIFI_3D_zoo · 03/07/2008, 09:46 AM

Oh boy. I have seen some people talking about skimmer-less tanks but... there wasn't a lot of corals or fish in them. I wasn't impressed with the look. THe skimmer I have been using for years is so bad I think I could qualify as not really running one myself. And I have a lot of fish and I'm pretty successful with corals, all but sps. BUT I think it has a lot to do with the rest of my filtration and my well established 5 yr old tank. I just bought a NEW skimmer too.

As far as the Tang goes I think it's listed as 75 gal min. on a "blue" tang. But I'm still confused about the shape of your tank and stand. Tangs need room to swim... sorta like dogs need a "dog run" in the yard. Just to get out and run.. or swim. I'm still picturing this narrow and tall tank of yours. But Pacific Blues are so docile he might be alright in a tight tank. THey're really beautiful and friendly fish.

beachsidejuj · 03/07/2008, 10:12 AM

I have a dumb question...I am getting a 60g tank with a "24'' Glass sump with baffles and 1'' bulkhead" My 1st question is, what size pump do I need to run the return? Plumping comes with it so I assume that I won't need a overflow...is that right...the extent of my expierence is a 12g Nano with HOB filter...LS,LR....this tank is comimg with T5 lights, LS...heater...also I have one stealth heater....do I need 2 heaters? would I put them in the sump? HELP PLS!!!!!

HABS#1 · 03/07/2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SCIFI_3D_zoo
Oh boy. I have seen some people talking about skimmer-less tanks but... there wasn't a lot of corals or fish in them. I wasn't impressed with the look. THe skimmer I have been using for years is so bad I think I could qualify as not really running one myself. And I have a lot of fish and I'm pretty successful with corals, all but sps. BUT I think it has a lot to do with the rest of my filtration and my well established 5 yr old tank. I just bought a NEW skimmer too.

As far as the Tang goes I think it's listed as 75 gal min. on a "blue" tang. But I'm still confused about the shape of your tank and stand. Tangs need room to swim... sorta like dogs need a "dog run" in the yard. Just to get out and run.. or swim. I'm still picturing this narrow and tall tank of yours. But Pacific Blues are so docile he might be alright in a tight tank. THey're really beautiful and friendly fish.

The tank is 48X18X24 the stand is 48X18X28 the thing is the stand is a big Als stand with the small cupboard in the centre and the shelves on the outside so it is virtualy only about 14-16" across to put stuff under there thus the 10g for the fuge. As for my skimmerless tank I have been running our 31 since last Oct wothout a skimmer and about 40 or so lbs of rock in it and have had virtually zero issues. I did go through a bout of red slime but the ROWAPhos cleared that up in a snap. Our current 31 has the BTA in it and the pompom xenia under 1 18K T8 and one actinic T8 and both are growing like mad. I am adding a 6X6X6 hang on back overflow to feed the 10Gal under the cabinet. Once I get this setup I can get some pics I haven't done anything with it yet. Our 31 is skimmerless with 5 fish a sandsifting star 4 snails 10 blue legs and the pompom xenia under T8 lighting it is pretty loaded up and running strong all params are zeros across the board this is using tap water even for top off which occurs once every 2 weeks. as soon as I get everything put together I will post some pics.

Now for the question I asked originally what pump do I need to move the water back to the tank from the Fuge? What other accessories will I need like how much Cheato etc?

03/07/2008, 06:53 AM	#4
HABS#1 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Ontario Canada Posts: 552	No room under the cabinet for anything bigger than a 10 plus I allready have the 10 so I will just make it a fuge then and leave the sump portion. As for the comment on not researching it nope I didn't and personally I have not done anything by the book in this hobby yet. My 31 gal system was thrown together with tap water I used black mollies to cycle it and had a BTA in the system after it was up and cycles only 1 month. As for the livestock that will be in the 75 it will be as follows 1. Copperband Butterfly 2. Blue Tang (dory) 3. 2 Ocelleris (currently in our 31 gal) 4. 2 Bluegreen Chromis (curretly in our 31 gal) 5. Sand sifting starfish (currently in our 31 gal) 6. cleaner shrimp (currently in our 31 gal) 7. lawnmower blenny (currently in our 31 gal) 8. PJ Cardinal (currently in the 10 gal) 9. Firefish (currently in our 10 gal) 10. BTA (currently in our 31 gal) 11. POM POM Xenia (currently in our 31 gal) 12. Lyretail Anthias 13. Sexy Shrimp 14. zoo colony __________________ If you can dream it you can do it Just remember one thing it was all started by a mouse 25 before 12 HABS over the Leafs every time... Current Tank Info: 75 gal mixed. 2 Ocellaris clowns 2 Bluegreen chromis 1 PJ cardinal 1 blue tang 1 red reefstarfish 1 cleaner shrimp 1 Peppermint shrimp 1 BTA 1 Xenia 1 Lavender mushroom green open brain various CUC (coming soon 1 copperband butterfly)

03/07/2008, 07:14 AM	#5
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	You can probably manage to squeek through with a refugium to grow Chaeto with a 10-gallon tank since you don't have room for anything bigger. Space-saving measures would have to be taken...For example, you wouldn't be able to put a skimmer in there and you'd be much better off if you had the 10-gallon drilled so that you could plumb the return-pump dry, outside of it. If you did that, then you'd have just about all of the 10-gallon tank available to grow the macro-algae...and fit your heater in there, too. __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

03/07/2008, 09:16 AM	#8
dsn112 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,139	That tang needs to be in a bigger tank, 100g but preferably a 6' tank. Sumps are designed to add more volume to your overall system and to hide equipment so your display can be free of clutter. Not running a skimmer with that many fish will be disasterous, and you better change a minimum 10g per week without a skimmer. If you ignore the advice and get the tang, and the rest of that list of livestock, you will really need to rethink that skimmer thought. Its easier to run skimmerless on a small tank. __________________ I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I got it all!! Current Tank Info: Fluval Edge w LED freshwater. Looking at doing a 20-40g long penninsula fowlr soon

03/06/2008, 08:32 PM	#1
HABS#1 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Ontario Canada Posts: 552	Sump/Fuge So the kids 10 gal system is going to be removed from their room as thjey can't fall asleep with it running in there. So I am going to put all the livestock into our 75 once it is up and running. What do I need to do to turn that 10 gal into a sump/fuge for the 75? I have lots of liverock in it and substrate. I will put in some eggcrate to separate the tank and split it in half and allow flow between the 2 sides. I will just use the hood and lights from that for this thing. What pump etc do you reccomend and overflow box etc. What should I look for GPH etc any and all reccomendations are welcome. __________________ If you can dream it you can do it Just remember one thing it was all started by a mouse 25 before 12 HABS over the Leafs every time... Current Tank Info: 75 gal mixed. 2 Ocellaris clowns 2 Bluegreen chromis 1 PJ cardinal 1 blue tang 1 red reefstarfish 1 cleaner shrimp 1 Peppermint shrimp 1 BTA 1 Xenia 1 Lavender mushroom green open brain various CUC (coming soon 1 copperband butterfly)

03/06/2008, 08:38 PM	#2
Blown 346 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Rockford, Illinois Posts: 6,596	Honestly a 10 gallon is way to small for a sump/fuge combo. I would do atleast a 20 gallon tank.

03/06/2008, 08:51 PM	#3
SCIFI_3D_zoo Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sebring, Florida Posts: 1,072	Boy.. I don't know where to begin. You honestly sound like you have done very little research on this. I guess it's possible to do a 10 gal sump/fuge IF it's really short and wide so you got room. They say you should go with a fuge 10% the size of your tank. So you need almost 8 gal just for that. You don't have to have a intake area. Your skimmer could be... well you could be without one depending on what sorta livestock you have.. otherwise it could be external. I have seen people with intakes going into a sealed glass/acrylic box in the top corner of their fuge to control the flow from blowing the fuge all over. Otherwise.. you'll need a skimmer area and a skimmer pump area there. Then you gotta have a fuge at least 4-5 gal. And you need at minimum 3 baffles probably. THEN a return area at least big enough for a pump. Doesn't leave you with much room. I think it's possible... with good planning... BUT WHY. Why do it. A tank is so cheap. For a 75 gal... you need a 30 gal tank at least. I just got something myself for my 90gal tank that is a 37gal sump tank BUT it's still only 30" long. I'm having a lot of trouble finding room for everything. THe tank is cheap too. 10gal isn't worth the time. What you could do.. IF you got the space is use that 10 gal for AUTO TOP-OFF. Just do some forums searches here for sumps, refugiums, auto top-off, etc. for more info.

03/07/2008, 07:39 AM	#7
SCIFI_3D_zoo Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sebring, Florida Posts: 1,072	Take a picture to help us visualize what is going on. I don't get it. I'm picturing this 75 gal tank that's 12" wide... and 6 feet tall. Take pics of your stand area. If you have height you might have to just stack 2-3 things.

03/07/2008, 09:46 AM	#9
SCIFI_3D_zoo Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sebring, Florida Posts: 1,072	Oh boy. I have seen some people talking about skimmer-less tanks but... there wasn't a lot of corals or fish in them. I wasn't impressed with the look. THe skimmer I have been using for years is so bad I think I could qualify as not really running one myself. And I have a lot of fish and I'm pretty successful with corals, all but sps. BUT I think it has a lot to do with the rest of my filtration and my well established 5 yr old tank. I just bought a NEW skimmer too. As far as the Tang goes I think it's listed as 75 gal min. on a "blue" tang. But I'm still confused about the shape of your tank and stand. Tangs need room to swim... sorta like dogs need a "dog run" in the yard. Just to get out and run.. or swim. I'm still picturing this narrow and tall tank of yours. But Pacific Blues are so docile he might be alright in a tight tank. THey're really beautiful and friendly fish.

03/07/2008, 10:12 AM	#10
beachsidejuj Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 130	I have a dumb question...I am getting a 60g tank with a "24'' Glass sump with baffles and 1'' bulkhead" My 1st question is, what size pump do I need to run the return? Plumping comes with it so I assume that I won't need a overflow...is that right...the extent of my expierence is a 12g Nano with HOB filter...LS,LR....this tank is comimg with T5 lights, LS...heater...also I have one stealth heater....do I need 2 heaters? would I put them in the sump? HELP PLS!!!!!