Newish tank, baffling problem, help please!

Shmax · 03/16/2008, 12:33 PM

Guess I should start with tank specs: 125gal pre-drilled tank, megaflow model 4 sump, superskimmer 125, mag 12 return, mag 24 running on a closed loop for circulation, returned via loc-line facing every possible direction. Aqualight pro 72" fixture with 3x 250 HQI halides and 4x 96watt actinics, positioned about 10-12" above the surface of the water.

The tank has been up and running for about 4 months, counting the 3 week cycle period. I've been through the natural diatom bloom, it's probably 99% gone, just a little here and there left.

Ok now for inhabitants, fish: purple tang, sunburst anthias, 4 clownfish, pink/blue spot goby, royal gramma, green clown goby. All fish are doing very well, eating well, fat happy campers.

Inverts: 4 emerald crabs, 25 nessarius snails, 35-40 hermits, blue/red legs, and 1 serpent star.

Corals: 1 elegance coral, approx 12" long, 1 yellow leather coral, 3 mushroom frags of varying sizes, and 2 zoanthid frags.

Water params: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate all read zero, and have been double and triple checked by buddies/lfs. Calcium is between 400-440 ppm, and I'm dosing using brightwell aquatics liquid reef every other day to maintain that. Alk is 3.5 meq/l, or 9.8 dkh, and is steady. PH is steady also at 8.3.

My light cycle is 12 hours of actinics with an 8 hour halide cycle in the middle.

I had some issues with heat up until the last few days, it was getting too warm during the evening when the lights had been on all day, so I removed the ballasts from under the stand and added a fan to the sump. Now my temp is rock steady at 79.

I'm doing 25% water changes every other week, using red sea salt mix.

Now for the problem. My zoanthids are not opening, at all, and neither are my mushrooms. They look exactly like they did when I brought them home. The mushrooms have been in there for almost a month now, and they never open fully. They don't appear to be dying back... but they don't open either. The zoanthids are closed all the time, and 1 of the frags I think is too far gone. Some of the polyps have been found drifting around the tank, fully closed, and I sucked them out with a water change. If all the corals were suffering, I would suspect some type of toxin in the water, but my elegance coral is THRIVING! It opens fully all day long, and seems to get bigger every day. The yellow leather looks like it can't decide whether it wants to live or not... one day it will be standing tall with polyps open, the next it's laying over on it's side looking pathetic. Today it's a combo... it's laying over sideways, but the polyps are fully extended looking great. I'm so frustrated with this tank. Any thoughts as to what may be going on? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

suzimcmullen · 03/16/2008, 12:54 PM

Is there a possibility of a household chemical problem or that the tank or live rock had copper in it in the past? I'm only guessing. I don't really know anything about anything but what I've read here

But obviously it's in something you haven't tested for. Oh...and what about a microscopic parasite? I've heard of these critters coming in with parasites that make them unhappy.

Suzi

poppin_fresh · 03/16/2008, 12:59 PM

Mushrooms and Zoas dont like a lot of flow or really direct light. If they are getting too much of either they wont be happy.

Shmax · 03/16/2008, 01:03 PM

All the equipment was new, no copper in the plumbing, and all the rock was fresh off the reef, no LFS, so I doubt copper is my suspect here, although I have tested for it, and even put a poly filter in to see if I could draw some out. Nada. I started the zoas all the way on the bottom, even tucked one of them up under a ledge for that very reason. I've been extremely careful about cleaning products used in any part of the house, and NONE are used near the tank. Plus, I can't imagine how the elegance would thrive if the tank was being contaminated by that type of thing. A parasite could make sense I guess, though hard to tell for sure with no solid indication.

suzimcmullen · 03/16/2008, 01:11 PM

Could a fish or snail be picking on them when you aren't looking? My chili coral has been unhappy right from the day I brought it home and my other tank critters will not stay off of it.

Suzi

Shmax · 03/16/2008, 01:14 PM

Hmm. Well I do notice that every time I add anything my hermits are all over it investigating. They don't seem to do any harm, but they graze over everything with no regard to corals. That was pretty normal in my last reef, and the corals would close a little until they passed then open back up as if it never happened. I haven't seen any of the fish so much as nip at them, other than the purple tang who is always nosing around looking for algae. I've even been crawling around the front of the tank at 3am like an idiot with a flashlight looking for predators =) Haven't seen any yet.

rbursek · 03/16/2008, 01:18 PM

My leather did that when I first put in in and a couple times later, but not recently, and have had it for about 9 months, no idea about the shrooms, mine let me know when I need to do my bi-weekly H20 change thou by being a little smaller, I do not know what they are lacking then because major chems are there, must be some trace element that I do not test for, wish I could be of more help, your wqater params all sound great.

Shmax · 03/16/2008, 01:23 PM

A buddy of mine said I should start dosing Iodine because the skimmer picks it up.... I haven't tested for it specifically, and I don't dose it, maybe that's it. I don't know.

Shmax · 03/16/2008, 02:15 PM

Just out of curiosity, do you guys dose iodine specifically?

TheFishGuy,LLC · 03/16/2008, 03:10 PM

Shrooms may be getting too much light. Try to put them in the shade in an area of low flow.

seanb1 · 03/16/2008, 03:38 PM

yeah shrooms hate water flow and light. zoos love it after they get used to it.

its the lights.

Shmax · 03/16/2008, 06:54 PM

I suppose I'll try to find something to tuck the others under also, and see if that works. I've also insisted that the GF not smoke anywhere in the house for fear that somehow it's making it's way into the tank and causing me issues. That has not helped her get over losing me to my hobby =)

03/16/2008, 12:33 PM	#1
Shmax Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 596	Newish tank, baffling problem, help please! Guess I should start with tank specs: 125gal pre-drilled tank, megaflow model 4 sump, superskimmer 125, mag 12 return, mag 24 running on a closed loop for circulation, returned via loc-line facing every possible direction. Aqualight pro 72" fixture with 3x 250 HQI halides and 4x 96watt actinics, positioned about 10-12" above the surface of the water. The tank has been up and running for about 4 months, counting the 3 week cycle period. I've been through the natural diatom bloom, it's probably 99% gone, just a little here and there left. Ok now for inhabitants, fish: purple tang, sunburst anthias, 4 clownfish, pink/blue spot goby, royal gramma, green clown goby. All fish are doing very well, eating well, fat happy campers. Inverts: 4 emerald crabs, 25 nessarius snails, 35-40 hermits, blue/red legs, and 1 serpent star. Corals: 1 elegance coral, approx 12" long, 1 yellow leather coral, 3 mushroom frags of varying sizes, and 2 zoanthid frags. Water params: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate all read zero, and have been double and triple checked by buddies/lfs. Calcium is between 400-440 ppm, and I'm dosing using brightwell aquatics liquid reef every other day to maintain that. Alk is 3.5 meq/l, or 9.8 dkh, and is steady. PH is steady also at 8.3. My light cycle is 12 hours of actinics with an 8 hour halide cycle in the middle. I had some issues with heat up until the last few days, it was getting too warm during the evening when the lights had been on all day, so I removed the ballasts from under the stand and added a fan to the sump. Now my temp is rock steady at 79. I'm doing 25% water changes every other week, using red sea salt mix. Now for the problem. My zoanthids are not opening, at all, and neither are my mushrooms. They look exactly like they did when I brought them home. The mushrooms have been in there for almost a month now, and they never open fully. They don't appear to be dying back... but they don't open either. The zoanthids are closed all the time, and 1 of the frags I think is too far gone. Some of the polyps have been found drifting around the tank, fully closed, and I sucked them out with a water change. If all the corals were suffering, I would suspect some type of toxin in the water, but my elegance coral is THRIVING! It opens fully all day long, and seems to get bigger every day. The yellow leather looks like it can't decide whether it wants to live or not... one day it will be standing tall with polyps open, the next it's laying over on it's side looking pathetic. Today it's a combo... it's laying over sideways, but the polyps are fully extended looking great. I'm so frustrated with this tank. Any thoughts as to what may be going on? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

03/16/2008, 12:59 PM	#3
poppin_fresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,982	Mushrooms and Zoas dont like a lot of flow or really direct light. If they are getting too much of either they wont be happy. __________________ PBITAWA! Current Tank Info: None now. Past- 180g w/ 100g basement sump and 20g 'fuge. H & S skimmer, T'5s & Tunze

03/16/2008, 03:38 PM	#11
seanb1 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: bettendorf, iowa Posts: 668	yeah shrooms hate water flow and light. zoos love it after they get used to it. its the lights. __________________ he who knows how, will always work for he who knows why..... David lee Roth. Current Tank Info: 125 reef/29 gal sump/29 gal fuge 3- 175w 20k xm mh/4 65w actinic, octopus nw-200 skimmer3 k-4s mag-12. 2 returns. 2 phosban reactors, GFO/carbon.

03/16/2008, 12:54 PM	#2
suzimcmullen Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 890	Is there a possibility of a household chemical problem or that the tank or live rock had copper in it in the past? I'm only guessing. I don't really know anything about anything but what I've read here But obviously it's in something you haven't tested for. Oh...and what about a microscopic parasite? I've heard of these critters coming in with parasites that make them unhappy. Suzi

03/16/2008, 01:03 PM	#4
Shmax Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 596	All the equipment was new, no copper in the plumbing, and all the rock was fresh off the reef, no LFS, so I doubt copper is my suspect here, although I have tested for it, and even put a poly filter in to see if I could draw some out. Nada. I started the zoas all the way on the bottom, even tucked one of them up under a ledge for that very reason. I've been extremely careful about cleaning products used in any part of the house, and NONE are used near the tank. Plus, I can't imagine how the elegance would thrive if the tank was being contaminated by that type of thing. A parasite could make sense I guess, though hard to tell for sure with no solid indication.

03/16/2008, 01:11 PM	#5
suzimcmullen Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 890	Could a fish or snail be picking on them when you aren't looking? My chili coral has been unhappy right from the day I brought it home and my other tank critters will not stay off of it. Suzi

03/16/2008, 01:14 PM	#6
Shmax Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 596	Hmm. Well I do notice that every time I add anything my hermits are all over it investigating. They don't seem to do any harm, but they graze over everything with no regard to corals. That was pretty normal in my last reef, and the corals would close a little until they passed then open back up as if it never happened. I haven't seen any of the fish so much as nip at them, other than the purple tang who is always nosing around looking for algae. I've even been crawling around the front of the tank at 3am like an idiot with a flashlight looking for predators =) Haven't seen any yet.

03/16/2008, 01:18 PM	#7
rbursek Moved On Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: germantown,wi Posts: 2,339	My leather did that when I first put in in and a couple times later, but not recently, and have had it for about 9 months, no idea about the shrooms, mine let me know when I need to do my bi-weekly H20 change thou by being a little smaller, I do not know what they are lacking then because major chems are there, must be some trace element that I do not test for, wish I could be of more help, your wqater params all sound great.

03/16/2008, 01:23 PM	#8
Shmax Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 596	A buddy of mine said I should start dosing Iodine because the skimmer picks it up.... I haven't tested for it specifically, and I don't dose it, maybe that's it. I don't know.

03/16/2008, 02:15 PM	#9
Shmax Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 596	Just out of curiosity, do you guys dose iodine specifically?

03/16/2008, 03:10 PM	#10
TheFishGuy,LLC Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Jonesboro, AR Posts: 109	Shrooms may be getting too much light. Try to put them in the shade in an area of low flow.

03/16/2008, 06:54 PM	#12
Shmax Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 596	I suppose I'll try to find something to tuck the others under also, and see if that works. I've also insisted that the GF not smoke anywhere in the house for fear that somehow it's making it's way into the tank and causing me issues. That has not helped her get over losing me to my hobby =)