Can I DRILL my 36g aga corner bowfront? +++ other plans

[Newreeflady]

Since I'm moving this baby across the country, there are some changes i'd like to make.

1) First, the overflow. I hate it. I would love if I could drill the tank to not have to worry about the u-tube clogging. Not to mention the massive box in the tank! Perhaps two strainers instead, or?

Could I pull this off? Is this glass too thin? Are these tempered? Would you drill the side? Where?

2) This was my first plumbing project. I would also like to change from flex pvc to standard pvc (I find the flex just a bit messy and difficult to deal with overall.) The reason I went with it was to not impede flow, and for noise issues. I have enough flow (2 Eheim 1260s on a 36g tank), but i'm still concerned about noise. Thoughts?

3) Smaller sump. I have a 15g tall sump under the itsy bitsy stand. It makes it difficult to get into the stand, etc. I would like to downgrade to a 10g. Any problems foreseen? Why do people use large sumps? (I don't see why I went for the extra size, I mean, the add'l water is marginal. )

4) Sand. Considering sand-free tank. I used to have a dsb, and for this tank I did a shallower bed. But, it gets dirty, and I have no sand-dwelling creatures. I hate the line of gunk seen through the glass. Remind me of why I need sand again?

thx,
-A

[Ratpack]

If it is not tempered, you can certainly drill the tank. If it is an AGA, call them and they can tell you whether it is tempered or not. Most of their tanks only had a tempered bottom, but better to be sure. How thick is the glass? If it isn't real thick, then one hole may be all you can do, but sounds as if that is all you want. I have a 10 gallon that I drilled for a 1.5" bulkhead and it holds water just fine and that is some seriously thin glass.

What makes the flex PVC hard to deal with? Just curious since my in the works tank will be using flex PVC.

Sump size isn't that important, in fact a sump isn't even needed. Most have them simply to hold the needed equipment such as skimmer, heaters and the like to keep them out of the main display. They do have one benefit though, they add water volume and the larger the volume you have, the easier it is to keep the parameters of the tank from making drastic fluctuations.

And I agree about sand, my current tank has sand and unless I fail at the one I am putting together now, all my tanks will be bare bottom.

[Newreeflady]

Originally posted by Ratpack
If it is not tempered, you can certainly drill the tank. If it is an AGA, call them and they can tell you whether it is tempered or not. Most of their tanks only had a tempered bottom, but better to be sure. How thick is the glass? If it isn't real thick, then one hole may be all you can do, but sounds as if that is all you want. I have a 10 gallon that I drilled for a 1.5" bulkhead and it holds water just fine and that is some seriously thin glass.

What makes the flex PVC hard to deal with? Just curious since my in the works tank will be using flex PVC.

Sump size isn't that important, in fact a sump isn't even needed. Most have them simply to hold the needed equipment such as skimmer, heaters and the like to keep them out of the main display. They do have one benefit though, they add water volume and the larger the volume you have, the easier it is to keep the parameters of the tank from making drastic fluctuations.

And I agree about sand, my current tank has sand and unless I fail at the one I am putting together now, all my tanks will be bare bottom.

1) Ok, i'll give them a call. I don't know the actual thickness, but i'd be surprised if it were any more than 5/16". If I drill it where would you recommend drilling it? How large a bulkhead? Just a strainer on the inside, or? How to then fight surface skum?

2) I did flex-pvc thinking it was flexible. It really isn't. When you want to remove and change pumps, though, it sure is. It flexes away from where you unhooked the pump making it difficult to hook it back up. I don't know how else to explain it. I'll definitely not use it again.

3) Thanks for the sand comment. Do you plan to just run a pump outlet low to keep detrius off the bottom? What animal would you put in that would clean any bottom of the glass funk? How will you keep the rock in place?


-A

[Ratpack]

I would drill for a 1" bulhead, that would allow 600gph flow and should be more than you will need with a small sump.

As far as my bare bottom, I will have a closed loop to provide a lot of flow in the tank and keep things stirred up. Some of the outlets will be pointed right at the bottom so that it will fan out when it hits and keep stuff blown off the bottom. Clean up crew will most likely be snails only since they can hold on through the current. I am making my rockwork very open where there will be very few places that current is not able to get to so that should help and keep the need for a clean up crew down to a minimum.

[Newreeflady]

Cool. I think i'm ready to try bare-bottom, too. This'll be a good time to try some new things that I would have liked to do.

I have a CL but don't have holes drilled for it. It works great, though!

How many holes should I drill? I'm thinking two holes for the overflow in case one gets clogged, or is this rare? I could always put a float switch to stop the return if the level in the sump got too low.

I assume it's good to keep # of holes drilled to a minimum. My biggest eyesore is the overflow box, so if I can rid of that I'll be pretty happy!

I run an Eheim 1260 for my return and one for my CL. Maybe I should drill two returns near the bottom to have 2 of the 4 CL returns pointed at the floor to stir up detritus.

thoughts?
-A

[Ratpack]

I say go for it on the bare bottom, however, bare bottom tanks typically use a lot of flow. For instance, my 75g will have a sequence barracuda pump for the closed loop and a LG 4-MDQX-SC for the return from sump, equating to about 4500gph. Now most of that will be aimed directly at the bottom to keep stuff stirred up into the water column so that it is taken down to the skimmer and removed or settle in the sump where it is easily vacuumed out. I am not sure what the flow is on your pump, but I am guessing it isn't a lot, maybe 400gph? What I would do if you want to use that pump is have one outlet for the CL on that pump and run it directly down the corner (corner tank right?) and that way the flow should hit the bottom and fan out from there. Keep the end of the pipe about 1" off the bottom. Then the return pump from the sump can be used for flow across your live rock and corals.

Also, for bare bottom, you will want something on the bottom to protect the glass. I am using a sheet of HDPE. I cut it to fit the bottom without digging into the silicone. Once I am ready I will run a bead of silicone around it to seal it into the tank so nothing can get under it. Silicone won't stick to it, but it will stay tight until I remove it.

Now, for drilling. I would not drill for your closed loop since it is working now, less holes equals less chance of glass breakage. In fact I don't know if I would drill at all. Have you looked at continuous siphon overflows? They intrude into the tank very little and if you want, you could add one on each side for redundancy. If you look around, you may find them very affordable. Then just get a small Aqualifter pump and hook to them and it will continuously pull the air out to create a siphon. It isn't needed as they will continue to work as long as the siphon isn't broken, but the pump just adds a little more guarnatee that it continues. They are typically black in color but if you get clear ones, just paint them with Krylon fusin paint. It is reef safe. Also, paint the PVC on the closed loop black as well and it will blend in.

This would get you a a pretty reliable setup with no drilling and very little tank intrusion.

[Ratpack]

Oh, and almost forgot, once you get the material you want for protecting your bottom glass, you will want to lift your LR up off of it a little. This allows the flow to get under it and not trap stuff there or trap it on the back side of the LR where you cannot get to it. For me it is easy since I will have three islands of stacked rock. The rocks in each island will all be epoxied together, so I can lift the entire island out. Then I have put small 1/2" long legs of 1/2" pvc under the base of itso it sits up off the HDPE.

By the way, HDPE is the white plastic that cutting boards are made from. So if you can get cutting boards from a local store, that is usually pretty cheap. If not, any local plastics supplier should have it. I paid $39 for a 2'x4' piece, 1/2" thick.

[Newreeflady]

I am hesitant to put down white plastic.

a) it's ugly.

b) plastic seems to be a diatom magnet.

Also, my overflow works pretty well, I do have to clean the u-tube now and again, but no problem really. The thing I hate the most is that the box it large. It is a small tank and the box, although the "slimline" is still intrusive.

-A