600 gal display/900+ gal build thread in the Chicago 'burbs.

wmilas · 03/25/2008, 07:54 AM

Here starts the documentation of my build processes. I've followed the build of many great tanks in this forum and I've learned a lot through the documentation of their builds so I'll try to document mine as thoroughly as I can so hopefully someone can learn from mine. So much research and planning has gone into this thing I don't know where to begin.

To start off the display is going to be a 120"x36"x30" with dual 36"x6"x16" external overflows. Tank is 1" acrylic on sides, 3/4" on top bracing and bottom. Back is black acrylic along with the overflows. The tank will sit on a tubular powder coated steel stand.

Tank and stand are being fabricated by ATM. Delivery (hopefully) will be in 8 to 9 weeks.

I'm aiming for a mixed reef that is both pleasing to the eye, and interesting to keep from a hobby perspective. I have 3 young daughters so I'm planing plenty of color and movement

The tank is for me as much as it is for them to learn the biodiversity of nature, and hopefully an appreciation for nature.

The tank will be situated in my basement. Currently the basement is unfinished but construction will start soon to coincide with the tank being dropped off. I'm hoping to have the studs, plumbing, and electrical in when the tank is delivered.

The display is going to anchor one end of a bar area. (Picts to follow). The tank will be viewable from one long and one short side. There will be a 12'x8' fishroom that the tank partially protrudes into where all relevant fishy stuff will be located

The fishroom will be isolated from the rest of the house. It will share no ducts, will have exterior doors with normal outside weatherproof seals. Room will be wrapped in plastic then greenboarded. Floor will remain concrete with multiple layers of epoxy paint mixed with sand for traction. A "mud" guard will climb the wall for 3 inches off the floor to contain any spills, and protect the walls if I need to hose down the floor. Walls will be painted in something yet to be determined. Marine grade paint, or something that is completely waterproof. Recessed cans in the ceiling will be sealed. Floor will have a central drain and be sloped to the drain.

The fishroom will have a fresh air exchanger with the outside. (I have a great one for the rest of the house, still yet to be determined if i go with a heat exchanger, or a simple set of fans, one blowing in, one blowing out). I'm not entirely sure if I'll need supplemental cooling. I plan on bringing the system up with full lighting and heat load with fresh water as a dry run and testing the thermo dynamics. If I need cooling Either a split AC, or a chiller with a split exchanger which can be positioned outside will be installed. Since I'm pretty far north, my basement never gets much above 68F. Even though the fishroom will be sealed from the rest of the house the cement floor will still transfer out heat so I'm not sure how much cooling will be needed. A portable high efficiency dehumidifier will be brought in if needed.

"Behind" the fishroom the lower level mechanical room lies. It contains the ejector pump, hot water heater, hvac, exchanger, humidifier and hepas for the lower floors. It will be accessible from the fishroom and will have room for dry storage.

Time for a few pictures:

Below is the head on view of where the long pane of the tank will be. The tank will be centered as it span is greater than 10 feet.

Here is the side view

The soon to be bar area

Outside view of the window that will be removed to bring the tank in. The window and frame will be ripped out. If I measured correctly the limestone footer wont have to be removed.

Indoor view and closeup view of the window. Notice the height at which the tank is going to enter the basement

Thats it for now. Next post will include a block diagram of the layout for the fishroom.

I'm kinda excited

wmilas · 03/25/2008, 10:38 AM

Following are pictures of my camera. Photography is my other hobby that sucks way too much of my money and time. I plan to document pictorially as much as I can. The camera is a Canon 5D. Currently attached to it is a speedlite 430EX for flash and a 24-105 f/4L IS. I have plenty of other L glass for when it comes time to do some macro shots

Next follows the block diagram for the fish room.

As shown the room is mostly a 8'x14-6" box with pieces cut out and doors which really turns it into 8'x12' usable space. The tank and overflows protrude into some of this space. I would have liked to have a slightly bigger fish room but I needed to balance this room with the mechanical room behind it. I can't push the tank out any further into the living space as it would throw off the layout of the bar. Mmmm beer. so Although not a monster fish room, none the less its a good size.

First thing to notice is that the sump is not under the stand. This is for 2 reasons The first is that I'd prefer to have unfettered access to the sump, along with the ability to have a shelf above the sump to gravity feed things like phyto, or whatever my fancy is. The second reason is that the stand needs to be fabricated in 2 parts to make it in through the windows. The stand will be 36" high by 30" wide and it wont clear the window. Because its 2 parts is simpler (from what I understand) to make it so that there are center legs so that the whole span does not run the 36" and have to be bolted together in the middle of the span.

The sump is a Tamco product. I don't want glass, and a lot of the troughs I've found don't maximize their space efficiently.

The Fuge, Frag, and Quar. tanks will be vertically stacked, in the order written, with the fuge on the top. These tanks will have a dedicated loop with pump from the tank. The fuge will over flow to the frag tank, which will overflow to the sump. Plumbing will allow to overflow to the quar tank for fill up but there will be no overflow. There will be a gravity drain to the drain.

The sump will have a pump to drain for fast water flushes. It will also have an overflow bulkhead to drain at the very top.

Water change station will consist of a 90 gal Tamco tank for freshwater, and a 75 gal Tamco for saltwater mixing. Saltwater will have a dedicated mixing pump, and a second pump to pump water over to the sump. Fresh water will gravity feed to the saltwater mixing vessel.

The reason The sink and water change is not flipped flopped on the diagram is for drain considerations. I'm going to drain into the floor which will be directly under the sink. I either have to move all the drain lines, or run the freshwater top off lines and the sump salt fill lines. Its easier to run the fresh water top off line and the salt fill line then to run all the drains I believe.

I'm considering putting the skimmer to the right of the sump, and gravity feeding it from one of the overflows if its a needlewheel. If its a downdraft/spray/beckett it will be fed out of the sump.

AquaControler III pro will go along the wall labeled electrical. 3 20 Amp circuits will go along the wall for the tank, another 20 amper will power misc room lighting and electrical.

Dry storage will be under the tank. Counter top will probably be less than 36" wide. All excess overage on length will be buffered there. I plan on building the counter, storage and misc racks out of plain old 2x4's with hardwood plywood tops.

I'm planning for GFO, Carbon, and possibly Calcium reactors to go under the tank side closest to the sump. Kalkwasser might be on a ledge above the sump. I'm still not completely sure about this layout. It might be nice to gravity feed the gfo/carbon and run it to the sump, hence the reason for putting these under the stand I'll discuss this more later. All reactors will be Geo, that much I've decided.

Now onto the Tank itself. You'll notice I haven't talked about closed loop layout. Thats because there is none. I'm probably going to take abuse from some here, and I know ATM really though they should drill for a closed loop, but I just don't like them personally. Its a lot of maintenance and it limits the aquascaping. I know it can be done in such a way that alleviates this, but I just don't want it. If I change my mind later I'll just drill the tank later. I don't think I will though.

Flow will be provided but a ton of Tunze's. I'm starting with 4 6201's in the corners and 2 6101's on the back to get started. I'll add more if/when needed. I'm also going to add a manifold that runs along the front lip where the return water is "sprayed" back in to encourage the top layer of water to migrate towards the over flows. The return pump will only feed this manifold and I'll size the return correctly via a blueline pump.

Another departure. The tank will be mainly lit via t5's. I'm planning 18 5ft T5's driven by icecap 660's W/slrs. Thats approximately 1900 watts. I'll be building the light rack myself. Although I'm not 100% convinced the t5's are going to completely fulfill my needs, I really want to try this route on a big tank. I have the space for it, and If I end up redoing the light rack I can still the ballasts to power the supplemental T5's lighting I'm going to need on it anyways, and I'll use some of the ballasts for lighting on the frag tank. The end caps are the same, and I'll have to buy smaller reflectors if I go that route.

I'm trying to avoid using lumenarcs for a few reasons. 1) Heat. 2) Light spread issues on a 3 ft wide tank. 3) Crazing issues with having a MH directly over a brace (which will happen).

So we'll see how it goes. Next post I'll list some of my current concerns/problems.

whiirly · 03/25/2008, 11:24 AM

I drive through Lemont every day so if you need a hand with any thing just shoot me a pm I would be glad to help

jsteidl · 03/25/2008, 11:37 AM

Look forward to watching the build. One thing to watch out for is that pipe under the window when you bring the tank through. Any weight put on it and it will crack.

ekrunch · 03/25/2008, 02:36 PM

I don't even know where Lemont is but i'll gladly go find it to come and witness that setup.

Tagging along for this one... sweet setup man, I can't wait to see more.

law086 · 03/25/2008, 02:49 PM

Looks like a great build.

Do you have any info on Tamco products? I've never heard of them.

Thanks,
Ron

wmilas · 03/25/2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whiirly
I drive through Lemont every day so if you need a hand with any thing just shoot me a pm I would be glad to help

Oh, I'll most likely be taking you up on the offer come tank moving day

Thanks.

wmilas · 03/25/2008, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ekrunch
I don't even know where Lemont is but i'll gladly go find it to come and witness that setup.

Tagging along for this one... sweet setup man, I can't wait to see more.

Lemont is almost due south of Oakbrook, and due west of Orland park, if that helps at all.

wmilas · 03/25/2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by law086
Looks like a great build.

Do you have any info on Tamco products? I've never heard of them.

Thanks,
Ron

Tamco stuff can be found on the US Plastics site.

The small tanks are here:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pro...oduct%5Fid=424

The large ones are here:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pro...oduct%5Fid=508

They aren't cheap, but they come in tons of sizes, are cheaper than custom made acrylic, and are really durable as they are made of medium density polyethylene.

To be honest I can't take credit for finding them. I've seen other build threads where when people were tight on space and needed exact dimensions they would use these in lieu of something like a rubbermade tub which is much cheaper, but a space hog.

I plan on buying the covers for the water change tanks and drilling them. I see no reason on buying the cover for the sump as it'll look like swiss cheese. I can always buy it later if I need it.

OranguTang · 03/25/2008, 04:41 PM

So....lets get that list of hardware goodness going

TandN · 03/25/2008, 04:43 PM

sounds like a awesome build good luck with it

danskim · 03/25/2008, 05:24 PM

Looks like it's going to be amazing.
I have a Canon 5D also... it's good to see some Canonites here on RC

But actually I hated my 24-105L

It vignetted at f/4 not even at the widest end. My 24-70L doesn't vignette at f/2.8 at 24mm. Have you tried it?

wmilas · 03/25/2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OranguTang
So....lets get that list of hardware goodness going

I have the hardware in a spreadsheet. I'm aiming to get to it together and post the lsit tonight

wmilas · 03/25/2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by danskim
Looks like it's going to be amazing.
I have a Canon 5D also... it's good to see some Canonites here on RC

But actually I hated my 24-105L It vignetted at f/4 not even at the widest end. My 24-70L doesn't vignette at f/2.8 at 24mm. Have you tried it?

Yup, it vignettes quite severely. I broke down and bought the new Adobe CS3 just to get the new bridge and Camera Raw functions. I've completely switched from using Canons raw processor to using Adobes. Heck, I even convert the raw's to DNG's now.

Anyways, the beauty of Adobes raw processors is its completely flexible profiles and scriptability from within Bridge. I took some time and shot a plain white and neutral grey background under outside high light to figure out how bad the vignetting was. I then created a profile in Raw to remove that vignette. Its amazingly easily.

Why go through all that? Because I have separate profiles to color correct depending on lighting source, ect. It was just another profile. When It comes time to develop my money shots, I stack the profiles which end up doing 90% of the grunt work, then I go to work hand tweaking.

The thing is I use the 24-105 f4/L IS as my walk around lens. I really like the reach over the 24-70, but more importantly I like the IS. Its not as sharp as the 24-70, nor is it as fast from a f-stop standpoint. Its as fast focus wise though. But for a walk around lens it fits my need perfectly.

I have various L primes (85 omfg gorgeous!) when I need speed and tack sharp along with the sweet 16-35 f2.8L for landscapes. I cant bring my self to by a wide angle prime for landscapes with this lens.

The one lens I'm currently missing is the 70-200 f2.8/L (IS). I'm not sure if I want the IS at this range because I hear its not as sharp, and for a longer range zoom I'm going want sharp. Ontop of that I'm not even sure I want a zoom at all but maybe a 200 F2/L. I don't see myself shooting at 150mm all that much, just at 200. So, I don't know.

I'm so confused. And considering L glass costs as much as a well set up reef tank, You have do be damn sure before you buy a piece.

I can't wait to take some livestock pictures. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised at what a 5D can really do in the hands of someone who knows how to use it

Oh and I'm kind of embarrassed at my quick hack job pictures I posed above now knowing a fellow 5D shooter is tagging along. What size is acceptable on RC? Lot of the photog site we go quite large but I don't want to drown out peoples bandwidth.

danskim · 03/25/2008, 07:24 PM

Yeah, the 24-105L is more versatile because of range. The two weeks I had it.. I took it to a museum, and it performed better than the 24-70 because of the IS. But in almost everything else, I preferred the 24-70. Of course, it's a matter of personal opinion. Can't really go wrong with any L...

I tried both the 70-200 f/2.8L IS and the 70-200 f/4L IS, and I chose the f/4 because of sharpness. I liked the creamier bokeh of the f/2.8, but from what I heard, it's kind of annoying to keep on switching for a good (sharp) copy of the lens. It's also a little to big to fit into my preferred camera bag. Too bad it's my favorite but least used lens

I'd like the 16-35L, but I like my 35L too much to part with it. I'd love to get my hands on an 85L though. All the pictures I've seen nearly make me drool

My next lens purchase is to get my third copy of a 100mm macro (I kept buying and selling it, but I wish I had kept one). If Canon updates their macros to IS, I'd be really happy too!

I usually post FTSs at 1024 and others at 800 px width, but I don't think there is a rule about that.

Are you really considering the 200 f/2L IS? If so, you're my new favorite RCer!

wmilas · 03/25/2008, 07:47 PM

Ok so the tentative equipment list:

Tank: 120"x36"x30" W/ dual 36"x6"x16" overflows. (600) 1" Acrylic sides, 3/4" top and bottom. Back and overflows black. Built by ATM
Tank Stand: Powder coated tubular steel. Built by ATM.
Sump: Tamco 48"x24"x36" (160)
Fuge: AGA 36"x18"x24" (65)
Frag: AGA 36"x18"x16" (40)
Quarantine: AGA 36"x18"x16" (40)

Fresh Water Tank: Tamco 24"x24"x36" (90)
Salt Mix Tank: Tamco 24"x24"x30" (75)

RO/DI: Spectrapure Max Cap 100 UHE

Lighting Display: 18x80W(100W+ overdriven) 5' T5's Not sure on teh color order yet. 2 rows of 9. MIGHT go 20 rows of 10 depending on space. Icecap SLR reflectors. Icecap 660 ballasts (7 or 8!)
Lighting Fuge: Twin 6500K 40W power compacts (spiral residential type) with Spider Reflectors.
Lighting Frag: 5x39W(60W+) 3' T5's W/ 660's & SLR's

Skimmer: At this point I'm leaning towards either a custom Spazz with wet neck and auto shutoff W/ Waste collector, Or the Reeflo 250 Pro with the upgraded Neck and cup W/ auto shutoff and waste collector. A close third is an insanely over sized ETSS.

If Its a needlewheel I'm going to try and feed it from one of the overflows.

Controller: Fully decked out Neptuen Aquacontroller III Pro. 3 DC8's, break out boxes, tunze controler, LEDS, assorted probes. 'nuff said.

Display circulation: 4x Tunze 6201's with magnet holders + 2XxTunze 6101's + Magnet holders. I'll add more if needed, or add some Vortech's when the 1" models come out. There will be no closed loop.
Sump return: Correctly sized Blueline to flow 1000-1300 GPH back to the display if using a 500-600 GPH needlewheel skimmer (orca) or 1000 GPH (Spazz). If I end up going with a high flow ETSS I'll push it up so the return will be larger than the ETSS skimmer flow. The over flows are sized to handle 2500 GPH each If I need it. They have 3 2 inch drains each.

Calcium Reactor: Geo 624 (or larger) with pinpoint controller.
Kalkwasser Stirrer: Geo Kalk Reactor.
Media Reactors: Geo 4x18's I plan on at least 2. 1 GFO + 1 Carbon. I may add a 3rd as a standby for more carbon or GFO if something goes horribly wrong.

Pumps: If not listed above to be decided. The looped flow through the sump->fuge->frag->sump will be an internal eheim in sump. The Kalkwasser will be a top off pump. the Calcium reactor I don't know. The Media reactors I'm playing with either feeding via a eheim going sump->gfo->carbon->sump OR I might try and feed it from an overflow bulkhead dialed down with a gate valve and have it overflow to the sump. I'm not sure yet.

Sand: 3"-4" deep sand bed (I don't like the aesthetics of bare bottom for the kind of mixed reef I'm trying to build). Most likely Carib Sea Special Grade (1.0 - 2.0 mm) with a bag or two of larger material mixed in. I figure I'll need, oh, near half a ton

Live Rock: Going for an open rock work feel with a few islands and the far corner being piled to the surface. Will go fiji and shelf. Large show pieces, 90+ pounds.

Coral: As stated its going to be a mixed reaf. I'm going for spectacular color and movement. I also happen to like anemones alot

Fish: Because of the anemones there will be a few pairs of clowns

. My daughters also want a Dori

, so a few tangs. I like triggers but I'm worried about them and the acrylic. I personally am fascinated by schooling fish so Anthias (Lyretail) and the such. I'm pretty lose right now. Oh, and a few hundred crabs, snails, lots of stars, cucumbers, ect

Thats about all I have right now.

wmilas · 03/25/2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Are you really considering the 200 f/2L IS? If so, you're my new favorite RCer! [/B]

Well no.. but kind of at the same time. the 6K price tag is a bit hard to swallow, and who REALLY needs the f2 on a 200mm? Well taking pictures of your kids at a dance recital near pitch black without a flash and no tripod it'd be handy, but not really for outside. However the specs at 4.0 look amazing based on the graphs. I'd like to get my hands on one to try, but none of the local places have them.

The 70-200 f/2.8L non IS is about $1150. , IS what.. 1650? the 200 Prime f/2.8L bout $650. $650 is a steal for a L lens. Plus the graphs look better than the zooms. the only thing stopping me is the though that I'm gonna be stuck somewhere at one of my kids plays and I'll wish I had a zoom at like 170mm. Its killing me.

Oh and I own both 85's. the f/1.8 and the f/1.2L. I'm not sure the f/1.2L is worth the extra $1100. Its alot of money for a prime. Its IS the best prime I've ever used. You aren't limited by light, or speed, and its the sharpest lens I've ever seen. Its a wierd lens. Its both sharp and soft at the same time when taking portraits. Its magic. With that said the f/1.8 in any other series would be considered L glass. Its extremely sharp and fast. Its bokeh is creamy, its a joy to use. If I had not of used the 1.2 or if i couldn't afford the 1.2, I'd have no problems what so ever using or recommending the 1.8. Its that good.

danskim · 03/25/2008, 08:45 PM

It is replacing the 200mm f/1.8 which is legendary... and something I wish I could try! I'm sure the bokeh is amazing... It's kind of like needing f/2.8 at 400mm ($6500). I'm sure the world looks pretty interesting from that point of view

I don't think it's been priced yet? But people are guessing sub $3500 (right below the 300mm f/2.8L IS) which is nice.

According to photozone.de resolution tests, the 70-200 f/4L IS is the sharpest zoom Canon makes and easily rivals all non-L primes.

I really like my lens, and it has the newest IS system so it's about equivalent to 4 stops. The 70-200 f/2.8L IS is an older one rated to 3 stops, so for shooting in low light it's about equivalent, but it obviously falls short in real motion stopping ability and depth of field.

You're making me want the 85L even more... but I'm getting a new skimmer, so alas, it will have to wait haha.

Sorry for going off on the camera tangent... I love how you're going all T5. I love my T5s too

wmilas · 03/25/2008, 09:13 PM

Well like I said above I think the T5 choice is a good one. I'll be able to get the exact color mixture I want, and on a 30" deep tank with 3-4" of sand I should penetrate no problem. I am gonna miss the shimmer but oh well. I think the reduced heat and the possibility of not having to get a monster chiller will make up for the lack of shimmer. I hope

FishTruck · 03/25/2008, 09:30 PM

I love your plan (mostly because you seem to have all the same priorities that I do)... with one exception... the T5s.

I have no gripe with the light output from them, and the ability to mix a million colors is awesome, and light per watt / heat / is also good.

Also, I understand the light over the brace issue.

But... keeping track of that many tubes is a hassel. One goes down, and it takes the whole bank on that ballast with it. This can occur with a loose endcap, a bad bulb, a water splash, yada yada yada. Trying to figure out which bulb is the culprit is tricky. You have to plug the ballast in and watch to see which bulb does not flash for one milisecond. Also, you have a many tiny surfaces on your reflectors to worry about cleaning. If the reflectors are not clean, the T5 output becomes inferior to MHs.

After my experience running six t5s over a smaller tank with ICE CAP DIY setup... I decided to have my 300 built with eurobracing only and NO center brace. You could to this on your tank with 1.25 inch thich acrylic (unless they have already started construction).

Having no center brace allows one to go "wild" with the metal halide lighting and eliminates one more surface (the center brace) that needs wiped off. You could run three infinity twin 400 watt reflectors. This would cover your tank with six bulbs. Also, the bulbs are in close proximity so you can "mix" spectrums sort of like with a tube setup. Take a look at the Aquarium Obsessed websight to see them. (12k reeflux bulbs make nice light without need for actinic supplementation and dimmable ballasts make coral acclimation easy).

If you want to swing by some time and see these reflectors... I am about 20 minutes from you.

Anyway, just a suggestion from a lazy reefer to help cut down on chores

.

Can't wait to see your progress!

Ryan.

Robgixxer · 03/25/2008, 09:55 PM

600 gallons! damn thats 4 of my tanks! good luck with the build buddy! wish i had room for a larger tank. I'm currently in the middle of building mine right now too! it's alot of fun well if you have the free time for it.

skanderson · 03/25/2008, 10:20 PM

will be watching this build carefully. i am planning on setting up a big tank in the fall and am interested in how you like the choices your going with . keep us all updated. thanks

mcliffy2 · 03/25/2008, 10:58 PM

Awesome to see this system being built nearby, I'm subscribing.

I really like that you are going all T5 - your system dwarfs my new build (238g display, 360 total) which I'm going all T5 on, but you are welcome to come by and check it out once it is up and running (hopefully) in the next few weeks.

Nanook · 03/25/2008, 11:03 PM

Sounds like fun

wmilas · 03/26/2008, 08:35 AM

The halide thing is a complicated issue on a tank this size. Its all trade offs. Let me state that personally, I prefer the shimmer of halides. I'm not a halide hater.

Ok so lets delve deeper. I was told by ATM that when a tank is constructed, the stress is on the tanks upper area is mainly on the joints. Because of this if I wanted no cross bracing they would want to make the tank with 1.25" sides and 1.25 or 1.5"" top to maximize the surface area of the joint. They still HIGHLY recommended at least one cross brace. The problem here is I'm trying to keep teh sides at 1" so I can use the magnetic Tunze holders.

The other option would be to use a steel brace around the rim of the tank to avoid a cross brace. I really didn't want a steel brace.

The compromise I could make would be to put 2 250W lumenarcs over each "hole" and spread them so a minimal amount of light hits the bracing, along with a fan across each brace. This is doable and I may end up doing it. I just want to try a full T5 tank first because I've seen some European large tanks this way and they do look amazing.

As far as the cleaning thing goes, I've thought of that. The reality is on a large tank I've come to the realization its just going to be perfect all the time. I'll clean the reflectors as best I can once every other month and thoroughly on bulb changes. I will lose some output. I'll just over do the bulb count to make up for this.

I'm also getting lexan inserts made as lids. I can use these to completely eliminate spray if I chose, and they are safe to use under metal halides if I chose. The downside is I'd have to wipe then down couple times a week. Ugh.

So in summary the decision is mostly, but not completely made. There really is no right answer here. Oh I did want to add that I see LED as the future in the hobby. Its just not there right now. I fully expect to switch to some sort of LED technology in the future.

03/25/2008, 07:54 AM	#1
wmilas Keep magnets 9" apart! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lemont, Il Posts: 1,023	600 gal display/900+ gal build thread in the Chicago 'burbs. Here starts the documentation of my build processes. I've followed the build of many great tanks in this forum and I've learned a lot through the documentation of their builds so I'll try to document mine as thoroughly as I can so hopefully someone can learn from mine. So much research and planning has gone into this thing I don't know where to begin. To start off the display is going to be a 120"x36"x30" with dual 36"x6"x16" external overflows. Tank is 1" acrylic on sides, 3/4" on top bracing and bottom. Back is black acrylic along with the overflows. The tank will sit on a tubular powder coated steel stand. Tank and stand are being fabricated by ATM. Delivery (hopefully) will be in 8 to 9 weeks. I'm aiming for a mixed reef that is both pleasing to the eye, and interesting to keep from a hobby perspective. I have 3 young daughters so I'm planing plenty of color and movement The tank is for me as much as it is for them to learn the biodiversity of nature, and hopefully an appreciation for nature. The tank will be situated in my basement. Currently the basement is unfinished but construction will start soon to coincide with the tank being dropped off. I'm hoping to have the studs, plumbing, and electrical in when the tank is delivered. The display is going to anchor one end of a bar area. (Picts to follow). The tank will be viewable from one long and one short side. There will be a 12'x8' fishroom that the tank partially protrudes into where all relevant fishy stuff will be located The fishroom will be isolated from the rest of the house. It will share no ducts, will have exterior doors with normal outside weatherproof seals. Room will be wrapped in plastic then greenboarded. Floor will remain concrete with multiple layers of epoxy paint mixed with sand for traction. A "mud" guard will climb the wall for 3 inches off the floor to contain any spills, and protect the walls if I need to hose down the floor. Walls will be painted in something yet to be determined. Marine grade paint, or something that is completely waterproof. Recessed cans in the ceiling will be sealed. Floor will have a central drain and be sloped to the drain. The fishroom will have a fresh air exchanger with the outside. (I have a great one for the rest of the house, still yet to be determined if i go with a heat exchanger, or a simple set of fans, one blowing in, one blowing out). I'm not entirely sure if I'll need supplemental cooling. I plan on bringing the system up with full lighting and heat load with fresh water as a dry run and testing the thermo dynamics. If I need cooling Either a split AC, or a chiller with a split exchanger which can be positioned outside will be installed. Since I'm pretty far north, my basement never gets much above 68F. Even though the fishroom will be sealed from the rest of the house the cement floor will still transfer out heat so I'm not sure how much cooling will be needed. A portable high efficiency dehumidifier will be brought in if needed. "Behind" the fishroom the lower level mechanical room lies. It contains the ejector pump, hot water heater, hvac, exchanger, humidifier and hepas for the lower floors. It will be accessible from the fishroom and will have room for dry storage. Time for a few pictures: Below is the head on view of where the long pane of the tank will be. The tank will be centered as it span is greater than 10 feet. Here is the side view The soon to be bar area Outside view of the window that will be removed to bring the tank in. The window and frame will be ripped out. If I measured correctly the limestone footer wont have to be removed. Indoor view and closeup view of the window. Notice the height at which the tank is going to enter the basement Thats it for now. Next post will include a block diagram of the layout for the fishroom. I'm kinda excited

03/25/2008, 11:24 AM	#3
whiirly Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Orland Park ILL Posts: 3,177	I drive through Lemont every day so if you need a hand with any thing just shoot me a pm I would be glad to help __________________ Whiirly A.K.A The One and ONLY:)> Current Tank Info: 180 might as well be a FOWLR

03/25/2008, 02:36 PM	#5
ekrunch OT Magician Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lake in the Hills, IL Posts: 2,411	I don't even know where Lemont is but i'll gladly go find it to come and witness that setup. Tagging along for this one... sweet setup man, I can't wait to see more. __________________ My life is a very complicated drinking game. "Dude, it was a joke. If I were asking seriously, I wouldn't have posted it in the CMAS forums." - Krunchy on 04/22/08 Current Tank Info: None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Gone. I'm done.

03/25/2008, 02:49 PM	#6
law086 Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 1,306	Looks like a great build. Do you have any info on Tamco products? I've never heard of them. Thanks, Ron __________________ "We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year." Current Tank Info: 180 RR ~ 150g sump ~ 100g fuge ~ 30g frag tank ~ Bermuda Aquatics 8C on Mag18~ GenX 55 return ~ 3 SureFlow MaxiMods, Tunze 6000 ~ 40w Gamma UV ~ 175w x 3 MH ~ 160w x 2 VHO

03/25/2008, 04:41 PM	#10
OranguTang NULL Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 977	So....lets get that list of hardware goodness going __________________ -Marc

03/25/2008, 10:38 AM	#2
wmilas Keep magnets 9" apart! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lemont, Il Posts: 1,023	Following are pictures of my camera. Photography is my other hobby that sucks way too much of my money and time. I plan to document pictorially as much as I can. The camera is a Canon 5D. Currently attached to it is a speedlite 430EX for flash and a 24-105 f/4L IS. I have plenty of other L glass for when it comes time to do some macro shots Next follows the block diagram for the fish room. As shown the room is mostly a 8'x14-6" box with pieces cut out and doors which really turns it into 8'x12' usable space. The tank and overflows protrude into some of this space. I would have liked to have a slightly bigger fish room but I needed to balance this room with the mechanical room behind it. I can't push the tank out any further into the living space as it would throw off the layout of the bar. Mmmm beer. so Although not a monster fish room, none the less its a good size. First thing to notice is that the sump is not under the stand. This is for 2 reasons The first is that I'd prefer to have unfettered access to the sump, along with the ability to have a shelf above the sump to gravity feed things like phyto, or whatever my fancy is. The second reason is that the stand needs to be fabricated in 2 parts to make it in through the windows. The stand will be 36" high by 30" wide and it wont clear the window. Because its 2 parts is simpler (from what I understand) to make it so that there are center legs so that the whole span does not run the 36" and have to be bolted together in the middle of the span. The sump is a Tamco product. I don't want glass, and a lot of the troughs I've found don't maximize their space efficiently. The Fuge, Frag, and Quar. tanks will be vertically stacked, in the order written, with the fuge on the top. These tanks will have a dedicated loop with pump from the tank. The fuge will over flow to the frag tank, which will overflow to the sump. Plumbing will allow to overflow to the quar tank for fill up but there will be no overflow. There will be a gravity drain to the drain. The sump will have a pump to drain for fast water flushes. It will also have an overflow bulkhead to drain at the very top. Water change station will consist of a 90 gal Tamco tank for freshwater, and a 75 gal Tamco for saltwater mixing. Saltwater will have a dedicated mixing pump, and a second pump to pump water over to the sump. Fresh water will gravity feed to the saltwater mixing vessel. The reason The sink and water change is not flipped flopped on the diagram is for drain considerations. I'm going to drain into the floor which will be directly under the sink. I either have to move all the drain lines, or run the freshwater top off lines and the sump salt fill lines. Its easier to run the fresh water top off line and the salt fill line then to run all the drains I believe. I'm considering putting the skimmer to the right of the sump, and gravity feeding it from one of the overflows if its a needlewheel. If its a downdraft/spray/beckett it will be fed out of the sump. AquaControler III pro will go along the wall labeled electrical. 3 20 Amp circuits will go along the wall for the tank, another 20 amper will power misc room lighting and electrical. Dry storage will be under the tank. Counter top will probably be less than 36" wide. All excess overage on length will be buffered there. I plan on building the counter, storage and misc racks out of plain old 2x4's with hardwood plywood tops. I'm planning for GFO, Carbon, and possibly Calcium reactors to go under the tank side closest to the sump. Kalkwasser might be on a ledge above the sump. I'm still not completely sure about this layout. It might be nice to gravity feed the gfo/carbon and run it to the sump, hence the reason for putting these under the stand I'll discuss this more later. All reactors will be Geo, that much I've decided. Now onto the Tank itself. You'll notice I haven't talked about closed loop layout. Thats because there is none. I'm probably going to take abuse from some here, and I know ATM really though they should drill for a closed loop, but I just don't like them personally. Its a lot of maintenance and it limits the aquascaping. I know it can be done in such a way that alleviates this, but I just don't want it. If I change my mind later I'll just drill the tank later. I don't think I will though. Flow will be provided but a ton of Tunze's. I'm starting with 4 6201's in the corners and 2 6101's on the back to get started. I'll add more if/when needed. I'm also going to add a manifold that runs along the front lip where the return water is "sprayed" back in to encourage the top layer of water to migrate towards the over flows. The return pump will only feed this manifold and I'll size the return correctly via a blueline pump. Another departure. The tank will be mainly lit via t5's. I'm planning 18 5ft T5's driven by icecap 660's W/slrs. Thats approximately 1900 watts. I'll be building the light rack myself. Although I'm not 100% convinced the t5's are going to completely fulfill my needs, I really want to try this route on a big tank. I have the space for it, and If I end up redoing the light rack I can still the ballasts to power the supplemental T5's lighting I'm going to need on it anyways, and I'll use some of the ballasts for lighting on the frag tank. The end caps are the same, and I'll have to buy smaller reflectors if I go that route. I'm trying to avoid using lumenarcs for a few reasons. 1) Heat. 2) Light spread issues on a 3 ft wide tank. 3) Crazing issues with having a MH directly over a brace (which will happen). So we'll see how it goes. Next post I'll list some of my current concerns/problems.

03/25/2008, 11:37 AM	#4
jsteidl Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: CT Posts: 204	Look forward to watching the build. One thing to watch out for is that pipe under the window when you bring the tank through. Any weight put on it and it will crack.

03/25/2008, 04:43 PM	#11
TandN Registered Member. Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 2,009	sounds like a awesome build good luck with it

03/25/2008, 05:24 PM	#12
danskim Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ellicott City, MD Posts: 1,639	Looks like it's going to be amazing. I have a Canon 5D also... it's good to see some Canonites here on RC But actually I hated my 24-105L It vignetted at f/4 not even at the widest end. My 24-70L doesn't vignette at f/2.8 at 24mm. Have you tried it? __________________ Dan The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever. -Jacques Cousteau

03/25/2008, 07:24 PM	#15
danskim Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ellicott City, MD Posts: 1,639	Yeah, the 24-105L is more versatile because of range. The two weeks I had it.. I took it to a museum, and it performed better than the 24-70 because of the IS. But in almost everything else, I preferred the 24-70. Of course, it's a matter of personal opinion. Can't really go wrong with any L... I tried both the 70-200 f/2.8L IS and the 70-200 f/4L IS, and I chose the f/4 because of sharpness. I liked the creamier bokeh of the f/2.8, but from what I heard, it's kind of annoying to keep on switching for a good (sharp) copy of the lens. It's also a little to big to fit into my preferred camera bag. Too bad it's my favorite but least used lens I'd like the 16-35L, but I like my 35L too much to part with it. I'd love to get my hands on an 85L though. All the pictures I've seen nearly make me drool My next lens purchase is to get my third copy of a 100mm macro (I kept buying and selling it, but I wish I had kept one). If Canon updates their macros to IS, I'd be really happy too! I usually post FTSs at 1024 and others at 800 px width, but I don't think there is a rule about that. Are you really considering the 200 f/2L IS? If so, you're my new favorite RCer! __________________ Dan The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever. -Jacques Cousteau

03/25/2008, 07:47 PM	#16
wmilas Keep magnets 9" apart! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lemont, Il Posts: 1,023	Ok so the tentative equipment list: Tank: 120"x36"x30" W/ dual 36"x6"x16" overflows. (600) 1" Acrylic sides, 3/4" top and bottom. Back and overflows black. Built by ATM Tank Stand: Powder coated tubular steel. Built by ATM. Sump: Tamco 48"x24"x36" (160) Fuge: AGA 36"x18"x24" (65) Frag: AGA 36"x18"x16" (40) Quarantine: AGA 36"x18"x16" (40) Fresh Water Tank: Tamco 24"x24"x36" (90) Salt Mix Tank: Tamco 24"x24"x30" (75) RO/DI: Spectrapure Max Cap 100 UHE Lighting Display: 18x80W(100W+ overdriven) 5' T5's Not sure on teh color order yet. 2 rows of 9. MIGHT go 20 rows of 10 depending on space. Icecap SLR reflectors. Icecap 660 ballasts (7 or 8!) Lighting Fuge: Twin 6500K 40W power compacts (spiral residential type) with Spider Reflectors. Lighting Frag: 5x39W(60W+) 3' T5's W/ 660's & SLR's Skimmer: At this point I'm leaning towards either a custom Spazz with wet neck and auto shutoff W/ Waste collector, Or the Reeflo 250 Pro with the upgraded Neck and cup W/ auto shutoff and waste collector. A close third is an insanely over sized ETSS. If Its a needlewheel I'm going to try and feed it from one of the overflows. Controller: Fully decked out Neptuen Aquacontroller III Pro. 3 DC8's, break out boxes, tunze controler, LEDS, assorted probes. 'nuff said. Display circulation: 4x Tunze 6201's with magnet holders + 2XxTunze 6101's + Magnet holders. I'll add more if needed, or add some Vortech's when the 1" models come out. There will be no closed loop. Sump return: Correctly sized Blueline to flow 1000-1300 GPH back to the display if using a 500-600 GPH needlewheel skimmer (orca) or 1000 GPH (Spazz). If I end up going with a high flow ETSS I'll push it up so the return will be larger than the ETSS skimmer flow. The over flows are sized to handle 2500 GPH each If I need it. They have 3 2 inch drains each. Calcium Reactor: Geo 624 (or larger) with pinpoint controller. Kalkwasser Stirrer: Geo Kalk Reactor. Media Reactors: Geo 4x18's I plan on at least 2. 1 GFO + 1 Carbon. I may add a 3rd as a standby for more carbon or GFO if something goes horribly wrong. Pumps: If not listed above to be decided. The looped flow through the sump->fuge->frag->sump will be an internal eheim in sump. The Kalkwasser will be a top off pump. the Calcium reactor I don't know. The Media reactors I'm playing with either feeding via a eheim going sump->gfo->carbon->sump OR I might try and feed it from an overflow bulkhead dialed down with a gate valve and have it overflow to the sump. I'm not sure yet. Sand: 3"-4" deep sand bed (I don't like the aesthetics of bare bottom for the kind of mixed reef I'm trying to build). Most likely Carib Sea Special Grade (1.0 - 2.0 mm) with a bag or two of larger material mixed in. I figure I'll need, oh, near half a ton Live Rock: Going for an open rock work feel with a few islands and the far corner being piled to the surface. Will go fiji and shelf. Large show pieces, 90+ pounds. Coral: As stated its going to be a mixed reaf. I'm going for spectacular color and movement. I also happen to like anemones alot Fish: Because of the anemones there will be a few pairs of clowns . My daughters also want a Dori , so a few tangs. I like triggers but I'm worried about them and the acrylic. I personally am fascinated by schooling fish so Anthias (Lyretail) and the such. I'm pretty lose right now. Oh, and a few hundred crabs, snails, lots of stars, cucumbers, ect Thats about all I have right now.

03/25/2008, 08:45 PM	#18
danskim Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ellicott City, MD Posts: 1,639	It is replacing the 200mm f/1.8 which is legendary... and something I wish I could try! I'm sure the bokeh is amazing... It's kind of like needing f/2.8 at 400mm ($6500). I'm sure the world looks pretty interesting from that point of view I don't think it's been priced yet? But people are guessing sub $3500 (right below the 300mm f/2.8L IS) which is nice. According to photozone.de resolution tests, the 70-200 f/4L IS is the sharpest zoom Canon makes and easily rivals all non-L primes. I really like my lens, and it has the newest IS system so it's about equivalent to 4 stops. The 70-200 f/2.8L IS is an older one rated to 3 stops, so for shooting in low light it's about equivalent, but it obviously falls short in real motion stopping ability and depth of field. You're making me want the 85L even more... but I'm getting a new skimmer, so alas, it will have to wait haha. Sorry for going off on the camera tangent... I love how you're going all T5. I love my T5s too __________________ Dan The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever. -Jacques Cousteau

03/25/2008, 09:13 PM	#19
wmilas Keep magnets 9" apart! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lemont, Il Posts: 1,023	Well like I said above I think the T5 choice is a good one. I'll be able to get the exact color mixture I want, and on a 30" deep tank with 3-4" of sand I should penetrate no problem. I am gonna miss the shimmer but oh well. I think the reduced heat and the possibility of not having to get a monster chiller will make up for the lack of shimmer. I hope

03/25/2008, 09:30 PM	#20
FishTruck Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Downers Grove, IL Posts: 805	I love your plan (mostly because you seem to have all the same priorities that I do)... with one exception... the T5s. I have no gripe with the light output from them, and the ability to mix a million colors is awesome, and light per watt / heat / is also good. Also, I understand the light over the brace issue. But... keeping track of that many tubes is a hassel. One goes down, and it takes the whole bank on that ballast with it. This can occur with a loose endcap, a bad bulb, a water splash, yada yada yada. Trying to figure out which bulb is the culprit is tricky. You have to plug the ballast in and watch to see which bulb does not flash for one milisecond. Also, you have a many tiny surfaces on your reflectors to worry about cleaning. If the reflectors are not clean, the T5 output becomes inferior to MHs. After my experience running six t5s over a smaller tank with ICE CAP DIY setup... I decided to have my 300 built with eurobracing only and NO center brace. You could to this on your tank with 1.25 inch thich acrylic (unless they have already started construction). Having no center brace allows one to go "wild" with the metal halide lighting and eliminates one more surface (the center brace) that needs wiped off. You could run three infinity twin 400 watt reflectors. This would cover your tank with six bulbs. Also, the bulbs are in close proximity so you can "mix" spectrums sort of like with a tube setup. Take a look at the Aquarium Obsessed websight to see them. (12k reeflux bulbs make nice light without need for actinic supplementation and dimmable ballasts make coral acclimation easy). If you want to swing by some time and see these reflectors... I am about 20 minutes from you. Anyway, just a suggestion from a lazy reefer to help cut down on chores . Can't wait to see your progress! Ryan. Last edited by FishTruck; 03/25/2008 at 09:58 PM.

03/25/2008, 09:55 PM	#21
Robgixxer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pompano Beach, Fl Posts: 315	600 gallons! damn thats 4 of my tanks! good luck with the build buddy! wish i had room for a larger tank. I'm currently in the middle of building mine right now too! it's alot of fun well if you have the free time for it.

03/25/2008, 10:20 PM	#22
skanderson Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: baraboo,wi Posts: 428	will be watching this build carefully. i am planning on setting up a big tank in the fall and am interested in how you like the choices your going with . keep us all updated. thanks

03/25/2008, 10:58 PM	#23
mcliffy2 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Downtown Chicago Posts: 4,093	Awesome to see this system being built nearby, I'm subscribing. I really like that you are going all T5 - your system dwarfs my new build (238g display, 360 total) which I'm going all T5 on, but you are welcome to come by and check it out once it is up and running (hopefully) in the next few weeks. __________________ 238g 60x36x26, 100g sump/fuge, 30g frag, 23g skimmer sump, 4 Vortechs, ATB L, Sfiligoi 12x54w T5 Bulb Combo: Super actinic, 6 Blue Plus/AS 22k, Fiji Purple, 2 Aquablue special, 2 Aquascience Duo

03/25/2008, 11:03 PM	#24
Nanook Ancient Eskimo Legend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 41,852 Blog Entries: 11	Sounds like fun __________________ The wind blew, the chit flew, and then they came two by two. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Tank Info: 375g Tanganyikan Tank & 470g mixed reef

03/26/2008, 08:35 AM	#25
wmilas Keep magnets 9" apart! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lemont, Il Posts: 1,023	The halide thing is a complicated issue on a tank this size. Its all trade offs. Let me state that personally, I prefer the shimmer of halides. I'm not a halide hater. Ok so lets delve deeper. I was told by ATM that when a tank is constructed, the stress is on the tanks upper area is mainly on the joints. Because of this if I wanted no cross bracing they would want to make the tank with 1.25" sides and 1.25 or 1.5"" top to maximize the surface area of the joint. They still HIGHLY recommended at least one cross brace. The problem here is I'm trying to keep teh sides at 1" so I can use the magnetic Tunze holders. The other option would be to use a steel brace around the rim of the tank to avoid a cross brace. I really didn't want a steel brace. The compromise I could make would be to put 2 250W lumenarcs over each "hole" and spread them so a minimal amount of light hits the bracing, along with a fan across each brace. This is doable and I may end up doing it. I just want to try a full T5 tank first because I've seen some European large tanks this way and they do look amazing. As far as the cleaning thing goes, I've thought of that. The reality is on a large tank I've come to the realization its just going to be perfect all the time. I'll clean the reflectors as best I can once every other month and thoroughly on bulb changes. I will lose some output. I'll just over do the bulb count to make up for this. I'm also getting lexan inserts made as lids. I can use these to completely eliminate spray if I chose, and they are safe to use under metal halides if I chose. The downside is I'd have to wipe then down couple times a week. Ugh. So in summary the decision is mostly, but not completely made. There really is no right answer here. Oh I did want to add that I see LED as the future in the hobby. Its just not there right now. I fully expect to switch to some sort of LED technology in the future.