Amonia levels when cycling... how high will they get?

[mikevangels]

So I just started a new tank. It's 65 gallon with roughly a 15 gallon sump.

I put in about 60lbs of live sand and 48lbs of live rock. However, both the sand and rock had been out of the previous owners tank for probably a month and were bone dry.

The tanks been running for a couple days now and I just checked my ammonia level to find it at roughly 2.0mg/L

I'm a complete newbie at saltwater tanks but I realize that I'm going to get a pretty huge ammonia spike. What I don't know is how high should I expect the spike to get and how long should I expect it to last?

Should I do frequent water changes or just let it cook?

And finally, a question from my wife: how long will it smell for? :-)

[memorysan]

I would say that all depends on how much die off is coming from your dried out live rock. Just keep an eye on it and when it drops, then it's peaked and the next part of the cycle is going.

I couldn't tell you about the smell though...someone with more experience with salt water (I have none) will have to answer that one.

[BeesGoneWild]

Since the sand and rock where dry and dead i wouldnt expect to see that much of an ammonia raise and i would be shocked if you smelled anything at all.

[seanb1]

just let it cycle, do water changes when its done cycling.

[memorysan]

Originally posted by BeesGoneWild
Since the sand and rock where dry and dead i wouldnt expect to see that much of an ammonia raise and i would be shocked if you smelled anything at all.

Wouldn't dead and dry cause more of an ammonia spike? Rotting dead things in and on the rock would cause more ammonia than living live rock wouldn't they...or am I all wrong on this?

[suzimcmullen]

I think he meant dead as in dryed out for awhile before you got it. When I got my rock it was seriously slimy with all kinds of stuff that needed rinsed and brushed off and it smelled real bad. My ammonia was as dark green as the api test kit could go which I don't have in front of me, so I don't remember how high that is. Much more than 2.0. I've done a 4-5 gallon water change per day for just over 2 weeks and my ammonia is zero already. My nitrates tonight were so low they were almost negligable and when I started out my nitrites were off the card high.

Suzi

[tim.hunt7]

one of my tank when i was cycling the rock i used was in delivery too long plus it was a hot day it smelled so bad and the ammonia got to 8ppm+ but im sure that wont happen its very rare to get that high

[cdbias2]

Carbon will reduce the smell.

[scokill]

I think it's pretty common to go the top of the scale on ammonia, I wouldn't worry

[MrRoo]

My new tank has never seen my ammonia level rise past .50. My tank is only 5 days old but my ammonia was .5ppm and not they are zero. My nitrates/nitrites are 0ppm and my high pH is 8.2. I think I may have already passed the cycle but I am still waiting 3 weeks before putting in the cleaner crew.

[suzimcmullen]

Mr. Roo, what do you have in there that would cause an ammonia spike? That sounds so low that I wonder if you've had an actual cycle. There's lots of ways to get started. Do you have some old rotting food or fish, live rock or other way of getting some ammonia going?


Suzi

[memorysan]

That's what I was wondering as I read his post...it seems like you didn't have a source of ammonia high enough to get a cycle going. If you didn't get much ammonia, then there was no ammonia for the bacteria to eat, no food=no bacteria growth and no changing to nitrites, then nitrates.

If you had enough ammonia to get a good cycle actually going, then you would have noticed a spike...and it would take much more than 5 days to get all 0 readings.

If you wait 3 weeks without adding any more ammonia, then you are waisting time as you aren't waiting for a cycle that never started.

[BeesGoneWild]

Originally posted by MrRoo
My new tank has never seen my ammonia level rise past .50. My tank is only 5 days old but my ammonia was .5ppm and not they are zero. My nitrates/nitrites are 0ppm and my high pH is 8.2. I think I may have already passed the cycle but I am still waiting 3 weeks before putting in the cleaner crew.

well yeah its possible, depending on what was on the rock or in the sand. If the rocks where dried or just did not have a lot of life or if you rinsed the rocks off before putting them into your tank. I can see this happening, I never saw much of an ammonia spike with my setup either.

[inachu]

I am still curious about why we should look and worry or just watch stuff spike in a new tank.

I mean if you got everything in your filters and such and everything is running then everything to be prepared is up and running then nothing to worry about unless we are talking about timing when to add fish after the spike?

I have seen a cycled tank where a guy added 15 fish all at once and nothing bad happened as his filters were prepared for such an event. Sure checking the tank weekly is fine but maybe I am confused.

Even the sales guy at the fish store says to just add 2 or 3 fish to start the cycle process.

Does this mean that even with no fish no live rock that the biological happenings in a salt water tank will not happen?
I think they would no matter if fish or no fish are present but having a fish would jump start the process faster?


I just consider the cycle process almost a mystery/myth. I just let nature take its course and let the filters and skimmer do their job.

One anyone recommend a book for me to read on fishtank equipment and theory in design principles?

[cdbias2]

I love this beginner forum.
My wife thinks I'm nuts when I laugh out loud at some things.

[suzimcmullen]

There has to be some sort of ammonia to start the cycle. It's really not a mystery. The more ammonia there is, the more the bacteria will grow. A small amount of ammonia will mean a small amount of bacteria. Then if you were to suddenly add 2-3 fish, then you'd have a bigger ammonia spike. Putting a few fish in would be the way people have done it forever. But the gills of the fish can be burned with big ammonia spikes, and some people on here believe that even small ammonia readings can harm the fish. Even if the fish appears healthy and eating, that doesn't mean that it's not stressed and sickness may follow later.

Suzi

[memorysan]

Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates are detrimental to your fishes health and could kill them or at least stress them enough to make aquarium diseases harder to fight!

Once you add fish, your tank will cycle...if you have real hardy fish, they MIGHT live through it...but they will be tortured during the process. Listen to the advice of many people that have many years of experience and cycle your tank before adding fish...then add fish slowly, again...like the experienced people advise.

I know you may say...look at the guy posting this...he is talking about experience?!? I do have experience with salt water (which cycles the same way) and I'm not talking about my experience...but rather the experience of the others with many more years with aquariums than I have saying the same thing.

[hmello@bermexin]

To the OP you should just let her rip. Don't worry about how high the ammonia will get at this point as you probably have no life on the rock or in the sand worth keeping by doing water changes when ammonia reaches 1.0. Keep watching, run your filters and skimmer if you have one, no need for lights and actually will help keep algae blooms down if you keep the lights off for the entire cycle.
I am sure you know but when ammonia and nitrite reach zero you can do a water change of 10 - 20 % to bring the nitrate down and then start the CUC additions.
Good luck I think you have the perfect conditions to cycle a tank. No unwanted hitchhikers to worry about and enough die-off to do a good cycle. Good luck and keep posting here and we love to see pictures.

[inachu]

In my fluval 305 there are 4 stages and 3 of those are in cups.

I have in one cup(middle) both sides are filled with the rock pebbles that neutralize the amonia. the stuff came in a milk carton sized box.

This should last me 1 or 2 months yes?

[inachu]

Would this be considred the best stuff?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/images...274_26687D.jpg


Only want to buy the best for my tank.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Only want to buy the best for my tank.

Then there is no reason to buy that product. Note that it says it is for freshwater only.

I do not believe that mineral ammonia binders (typically zeolites) will be very effective in seawater. Some may bind a little, but it is neither very much nor very useful in a reef tank. It certainly will not prevent a spike during cycling. If you have ammonia that you need to deal with in an emergency, a chemical like Amquel is the way to go.

This article has more:

Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php

from it:


Treatments for Elevated Ammonia: Clinoptilolite

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Few filter media are capable of binding ammonia from seawater. The zeolite clinoptilolite (a sodium aluminosilicate) is capable of binding ammonia from freshwater, but the sodium ions in seawater displace much of the ammonia. In fact, the ammonia binding capacity of clinoptilolite in freshwater can be regenerated by rinsing it with salty water. Consequently, its capacity to bind ammonia in seawater is very low, if any, so it is not a very useful product for marine systems.



One anyone recommend a book for me to read on fishtank equipment and theory in design principles?

Captive Seawater Fishes by Stephen Spotte is likely the best on theory and equipment.

Even the sales guy at the fish store says to just add 2 or 3 fish to start the cycle process.

Poor advice, IMO, unless you like to torture fish, or prefer to sell new ones when the old ones die.

[coralnub]

edit: double post

[coralnub]

Originally posted by MrRoo
My new tank has never seen my ammonia level rise past .50. My tank is only 5 days old but my ammonia was .5ppm and not they are zero. My nitrates/nitrites are 0ppm and my high pH is 8.2. I think I may have already passed the cycle but I am still waiting 3 weeks before putting in the cleaner crew.

IME, your cycle will depend mostly on the condition of your live rock. I never detected ammonia or nitrites when I started up my first tank. Thinking that my cycle never started, after a few days I threw in a raw tiger prawn (the guy at the seafood counter thought I was crazy, 1 prawn?), still nothing. Next I thought it must be the test kits; so I upgraded them, still nothing, though I did notice that my nitrates were rising.

The reason was I started my tank with rock that came from the sump in the LFS. The rock was already fully active and didn't need a cycle.

I guess what I learned from this is that things will not always go exactly how other people say they will. There are a lt of variables involved and not everyone starts from the same place. If I were you, I'd add a nitrogen source and look for either a ammonia/nitrite spike, or rising nitrates as an indicator that the bacteria are doing their job.

[hmello@bermexin]

Originally posted by mikevangels


I put in about 60lbs of live sand and 48lbs of live rock. However, both the sand and rock had been out of the previous owners tank for probably a month and were bone dry.

Coralnub, why would you add a nitrogen source to a tank that had had previously live sand and rock that had sat out dry for a month? Don't you think there is enough die-off on that substrate and rock to cycle with?
Just a question, not criticizing.

[suzimcmullen]

I'm not expert, only guess... But if the rock was dry for a whole month it seems any die off would just have shriveled up and wouldn't be actively decaying any longer.

Suzi