Total System Levasole Planaria Kill Recipe

[CleveYank]

1st.
THE LEVASOLE FLATWORM RECIPE for PLANARIA.

THIS IS A TOTAL SYSTEM DOSAGE NOT A REMOVE AND DIP METHOD. (Much cheaper than flatworm exit)

Take LEVASOLE pig dewormer and pour the powder into sterile and airtight container or ziplock bag. --->Add 240 ml of water to the LEVASOLE mixing bottle it comes in and add ½ Teaspoon (level) of LEVASOLE powder and shake until clear (20 to 30 seconds).
--->Dose 1ml. or 1.5 ml of the LEVASOLE you mixed per gallon of total system POSSIBLE volume. A maintenance dose of .3 ml may be dosed the 2nd day if desired.
Since there is a great possibility that these have a week to 2 week cycle I would recommend dosing over the course of 2 to 4 weeks in the exact same manner.

Cautionary Note
Have 50% NSW available incase of any problems with the side toxin release of dead flatworms. Have Carbon on hand and ready to run. (Note: just in case there is a massive toxin blast from the flatworms. My flatworm concentrations were probably low enough that it was not a factor. If you have a ton of them monitor tank carefully.) YOUR RESULTS AND MILEAGE MAY VERY AND I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE EXPLICETLY OR IMPLIED FOR ANY OF YOUR LOSSES.

---->I do not know if this ground has been covered but this is what I did.
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THE LONG STORY.

Upon the inability to provide a reasonable habitat for 40 newly acquired SPS frags from the C-Sea swap March of 07 in quarantine, I was forced to rely on inspection and dipping for parasite elimination. This kept the SPS alive and out of those I lost 2. The kicker or freebee was I ended up with redbugs and flatworms. The interceptor took care of the redbugs boom just like that according to those methods and posts and this thread is not part of the discussion at all.

The flatworms took roughly several experiments mostly failed with 9 boxes of flatworm exit. Only to have them reappear. Finally I rid the tank of them. But the expense and hassle was great. I still have a 90 gallon tank with a fantastic sandbed in it that I was saving for last. The reasons of which are not as important as the fact that I was looking at another expensive and possibly fruitless attempt to clear the remaining tank via flatworm exit.

A CORA member reefdiver72 did a whole tank kill off with LEVASOLE pig/sheep dewormer. After reading his post I inquired as to his concentration and found it was close, but could use a little refinement for my taste. I also have a large number of feather dusters on the rocks and SPS and clams and many inhabitants that if I lost I would of course not be too pleased. So getting it right was of great concern.
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The Experiment.
Based upon the preliminary concentration from reefdiver72 I used ¼ T to 240ml of RO/DI water. I dosed this at 20ml of this to a 20 long that had 40.05 pounds of liverock, getting me well over a 2lbs per gallon of liverock ratio. I had some SPS in it with some leathers and rocks that had feather dusters and crabs and snails. I ended dosing this mix to the tank at 20ml every 10 minutes. I did this until I reached 100ml of addition. The result at 100ml at the above concentration was that the flatworms were slowed but not dead. The feather dusters closed for a while but reopened. And the other inhabitants did not skip a beat. This led to the next concentration which was the approximate value provided by reefdiver72.

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The next 2 Experiments.
Concentration. I next mixed ½ T LEVASOLE powder to 240ml of RO/DI water.

Test tank one after intentionally reinfecting it has liverock to a 3 lb/per gallon ratio, SPS, two purple tangs, snails, serpent stars, fauna/pods, chaeto, leathers, soft polyps zoa mushrooms and back again. ****This system has carbon filter stage in it which I DID NOT TAKE OFFLINE. A lot to loose if something went wrong. I dosed 1ml per gallon of total possible system volume if empty. Not actual.

Test tank two is the same as test tank one, less the chaeto refugium, and a carbon filtering stage and has 6 crocea clams, 1 duresa clam and a 6 inch well seasoned sandbed. I dosed this tank 1.5 ml per gallon of total possible system volume if empty.

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Result?

Just like flatworm exit the serpents emerged and flipped over. Some snails were retracting and falling off of rocks. New flavor, bristle worms were appearing and looked like they were in death throws. Feather dusters in the rocks were closing.
FLATWORMS were dying. SPS and clams did not skip a beat in any of the tanks. However, during the initial 20 minutes the clams were opening and closing more rapid than they usually do. This of course stopped.

Day TWO. None of the inhabitants of the tank were dead, dying or showing any stress. Clams looked great, feather dusters in liverock were open, serpents out and sluggish, but moving. Soft polyps just fine and SPS had polyp extension and no apparent issues. I added a maintenance dosage of .3 ml of the LEVASOLE mix to both tanks. No changes in livestock whatsoever and not a sign of any flatworms.

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I paid $19 for LEVASOLE from Tractor Supply and dosed 300 gallons of total system. And still had enough LEVASOLE powder to do at least one more and possible two more dosages. To duplicate these results would have cost me another $140 in flatworm exit and it required numerous doses to get a system clear of them. Even if numerous doses are required the cost benefit makes it easier to accept.

As far as livestock, again everything appears to be doing fine. --->SPS NOTE(Apparently there is an SPS mortality and coloration impact that others have noted a concern about. A concern that I do not share for at 7 days after first dosing and at the time of writing this. And a repeat of the initial dosing; this has not been an issue)


My schedule is to redose the LEVASOLE for a total of 3 to 4 weeks every 7 days in the EXACT MANNER. I will post any changes as they come available.

[rob.holbrook]

wow I cant wait to do this..... since I too have red bugs ....

anyways your my hero ...

[Genetics]

Interesting concept. Hopefully, it works out for the best.

[Reefdiver72]

Thanks for finishing this for me I just have been so busy with work I had never had time to get back to it. I still have never seen a flatworm in any of my tanks since I did this. And no losses

[CleveYank]

Originally posted by Reefdiver72
Thanks for finishing this for me I just have been so busy with work I had never had time to get back to it. I still have never seen a flatworm in any of my tanks since I did this. And no losses

Well, again as noted the credit goes to you for the info of getting an initial mix concentration. Which was around 1/2 T to 8 ounces of RO/DI water.

I didn't feel comfortable with the dosage scale of 4 ounces of this mix to a 75 gallon system that you revealed in the PM you sent me. And the information you referred to that you found online somewhere at .02 grams of powder...well unless I dragged out the olin reloading scale and went from grains to grams. Other than that, changing the powder amount too much was going to be another issue. Also, it was hard to duplicate on paper your dosage of your concentration and use them on my system. Not without lots of decimals and re-multiply. Discussions with my partner in crime Serpentman of C-Sea confirmed and helped arrive on concentration concerns and repeatable and a more acccurate dosing requirement. Keeping to Teaspoons for the powder and going metric with the liquid became the best option.

What was the major underlying reason?
----->I wanted to arrive at a dosage capabilty that would easily convert for the 5 gallon nano to the 1000 gallon mega system.
----->Hence the conversion from oz to ml for the dosage led to the most overall repeatable and user friendly choice.

Having it to the ml and a higher concentration than your initial dosages I believe have truly made a much more plug and play or easier method to duplicate. (If someone can multiply total system possible volume by 1 or 1.5 they can duplicate and dose accurately)

Plus your test did not indicate whether you had a legion of millipora, torts, tabling acro frags and clams in your system with the softies. I do and therefore some testing was required before I made a leap. The refinement from oz to ml and the finer scale of dosage measurement helped control and fine tune the whole process overall.

[jh2pizza]

Mike,


Thanks for the work put into this.


Off to TSC.

[CleveYank]

Originally posted by jh2pizza
Mike,


Thanks for the work put into this.


Off to TSC.

Joe...BTW.

Slight wrinkle emmerged since the initial purchase at Tractor Supply before this all started.
Double check with Tractor Supply 1st.

In order to continue my testing I needed to have another bottle.
When I called the one in Chardon Oh they were out of it and gal said it was no longer in their computer. So I ordered it from livestockconcepts via their online store. The photo was the stuff made in Ireland like I got from TS. Yet what I got was some stuff made here. I was sort of put off with the switch but have not gotten back to giving them the Q and A about purity and strength. It supposed to be the same exact dosage and usage on swine so I suppose it's the right stuff only made elsewhere.


The original stuff was LEVASOLE (levamisole hydrochloride) Soluable Pig Wormer (Anthelmintic) Net Wt 0.0712 oz (20.17g)
bar code on bottle 0061-5023-013 made by or for Schering-Plough Animal Health Corp Union NJ 07083 made in Ireland NADA#112-049, Approved FDA NDC# 0061-5023-01

Stuff I recieved from Livestock Concepts was;
Durvet brand levamisole hydrochloride
same weight and dosage. same usage mfg MO. 64014 USA
& 2nd set of bottles was Aspen Vet Resources LTD levamisole hydrochloride, same wieght and dosage etc but Liberty MO 64068
(Guess Missouri is Bullish on pig dewormer or something)

Anyway, stuff from livestock concepts was about $15 per bottle delivered to my door. And they sent me a nifty catalogue just in case I needed to order tools to help birth my calves or deworm my sheep too.

[fkshiu]

This is interesting especially for us Canadians since Health Canada has banned the importation of Flatworm Exit for some stupid bureaucratic reason.

Gonna have to look for this stuff up here.

[CleveYank]

What's that Aboot? lol j/k

If you run into other problems getting it...maybe the online vendor. The livestock concepts folks were very fast shipping and such.

SIDENOTE----> as luck would have it...a couple from our club brought me some monty eating nudis to give the LEVASOLE a whirl on as well. So I guess another thread will follow with that experiment too. I wonder what else this stuff can do?

[CleveYank]

.

[itZme]

Well... I just treated my whole system with this method and the results were jsut as dramatic as with FlatWorm Exit. My tank became infested with the red flatworms about a year ago and I have spent $200+ on FWE over three different doses and they still survived. It seemed to have killed them when I used FWE but there would be one or two still moving around and then they would again regrow to their former state.

I looked at professor CleveYank's trials where he came up with the .5tsp per 240gals treated. I figured 720gallons worth was equal to 1.5tsp.

I mixed up 1.5 teaspoons with the full bottle (500ml) of RO water and shook it for a minute or so. I poured it into the display where there was a powerhead and was sure to pour it in slowly.

I was treating 600g and waited for about 10 minutes and still saw some flatworms crawling around the glass (even though there were a few snails dropping from the glass and not enjoying the treatment) so I mixed up another 500ml with another 1tsp of levamisole and poured that in also.

So I treated 600 gallons with 2.5 teaspoons of Levamisole concentrate mixed with 1 liter of water. It seems to have them all wiped out at this point and I think I will follow it up with about 1/3 of this after 24hr and then a full dose every 8 days for 2 more treatments to be sure I kill them all if they have a 2 week cycle.

I will report my results when there are any updates. Thanks Mike for doing all the research for those of us that are too lazy to do it

I realize I almost doubled your suggested dose but I am willing to accept the loss of a couple things if needed to clear these pests once and for all.

-- Kevin

[Paul_PSU]

Here is a non-chemical alternative from someone in my local club:

http://www.pmasi.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=101

Not sure how well this would work in larger systems.

[CleveYank]

Paul, Normally I would not make this request. I hate post editing for silly reasons. And since like a regular conversation topics lead and change into other things. However, Paul_PSU Can we stick with this method and information that pertains just to it?
Not that the offering may not be of use. But I've tried other things that I have not gotten into. The flashlight method being one that didn't work out for me BTW. Don't want to create confusion by adding other variables. And so far this has been the best method. Technically my trial is still underway since I am logging what will happen 1,2,3 & 4 weeks and 1,3 and 6 months out...EI will the little nasties reappear? (I bought a really strong pair of old man lookover glasses and take a flashlight and daily inspect the old planaria haunts to see if they are back.) I'm committed down this road at the moment and until I reach that end other methods are not in the equation. If it falls flat then I will be onto something else.

Kevin. Excellent. I will caution you. That in a side test that was done with LEVASOLE on montipora eating nudibranch in which I ended up after walking up from 3ml/gallon to a final dosage of 9ml/gallon at the concentration there was coral, snail, crab, pod and good worms in the live rock COMPLETE death. So I would strongly recommend that you stick with the original 240ml/1/2T concentration and not to dose anymore than 1.5 ml/per gallon. It appears very EFFECTIVE and SAFE, at the 1ml and 1.5ml per gallon dosages. Why push it?
Glad it's working for you so far though.

[Paul_PSU]

Sorry about that... didn't mean to sidetrack anything, completely understand..

[Shark Keeper]

I must say thank you both for the research.

I used the exact measurements that CleveYank used with great success! My system (120 gallon display with a 30 sump) became infested and I was not sure what to do since I am nearing the set up of my new system (180 with a 100 gallon sump). Since I know reefdiver72 and talked to him about it as well as saw the success that CleveYank had I decided to try it.

That was two weeks ago and my system looks great! I must admit that there was almost a casualty but that was only me holding my breath after the treatment.

Thanks again guys!

[Reefdiver72]

It has been 3 months now since I dosed my tank and nothing has reappeared in my tank I am finally rid of them for good I do believe.
Dosing once I never had any problems with sps in fact it looks better then it ever has and the growth in the last 3 months is unexplainable.

[CleveYank]

Originally posted by Reefdiver72
It has been 3 months now since I dosed my tank and nothing has reappeared in my tank I am finally rid of them for good I do believe.
Dosing once I never had any problems with sps in fact it looks better then it ever has and the growth in the last 3 months is unexplainable.

I will go out on a speculative limb here.

I feel that the hundreds maybe even thousands of these that can live in an aquarium put an overall strain on the bioload and with that have a side impact upon overall water quality. These are prolific and they use resources within the tank they inhabit.

BIG GUESS or MAYBE HERE in which I have -0- testing or proof. And since they are toxic during the kill. There may even be a continued toxic excretion they emit while they are alive in the tank as well that does not kill things but irritates them enough to slow growth and overall health from being optimum.

I definately overthink things but sometimes I stumble on a nugget. Who knows?

[Twistedpro]

Will this work for AEFW? Can you repeat the threatment more than once per week?

[CleveYank]

Originally posted by Twistedpro
Will this work for AEFW? Can you repeat the threatment more than once per week?

How should I know?
This is the treatment method I used for planaria.
THIS IS NOT AN AEFW EXPERIMENT.


Maybe you could set up an accurate trial like I did and share it with the rest via a distinct test and a distinct thread posting those results so that the information does not become clouded and confusing.

[serpentman]

I treated my system at the above mentioned concentrations with what appears to be success. The real test will be my low flow fuge which I will know in a couple of days. However, I plan to redose just in case a few of those buggers survive.

So far the only side effect I have noticed was my zoos instantly closed up. Also, the skimmer went nuts after a few minutes. I am assuming it was the dying flat worms that set it off.

[psteeleb]

well for what it's worth I thought Planaria was a common name for a large family of flatworms and suspected it also included the AEFW's. I remember catching them in fresh water lakes and cutting them down the middle to watch them grow two heads or two tails. Regardless - I appreciate the study and great documentation


I pulled this from an online dictionary
Planaria (family Planariidae) are common freshwater, non-parasitic flatworms of the phylum Platyhelminthes, class Turbellaria. It should be noted that the term "planaria" is most often used as a common name. It is also the name of a genus within the family Planariidae. Sometimes, it also refers to the genus Dugesia.[1] It moves by beating cilia on the ventral dermis, allowing it to glide along on a film of mucus. Some move by undulations of the whole body by the contractions of muscles built into the body wall. They exhibit an extraordinary ability to regenerate lost body parts. For example, a planarian split lengthwise or crosswise will regenerate into two separate individuals. The size ranges from 3 to 12 mm, and the body has two eye-spots (also known as ocelli) that can detect the intensity of light. The eye-spots act as photoreceptors and are used to move away from light sources. Planaria have three germ layers (ectoderm, mesoderm, and endoderm), and are acoelomate (i.e. they have a solid body with no body cavity). They have a single-opening digestive tract, consisting of one anterior branch and two posterior branches in freshwater planarians. Because of this three-branched organization, freshwater flatworms are often referred to as triclad planarians.

[CleveYank]

psteeleb. Yes I think we all did the cut the planaria heads thing back in Jr high Science. One of the less hoakey things they let us do back then. Cool even. And I know the AEFW are a part of the family. And I believe that this stuff may work on them. They are not included since A. I did not have a culture of them. B. I did not have a culture of them. C. I did not have a culture of them. And D. too many threads have side postings of 3 different parasites/pests (someone in another forum wanted to argue about the parasite vs. pest nature of flatworms instead of absorbing the data) included that pull the information so out of whack that it becomes useless.

So it's definately worth the thought. Just trying to keep this thread as one track as possible is all was why I suggested the other party setup a test run and isolate it for that issue and post a brand spanking new test in a separate thread. I would love to see a well documented study of that actually. When I get a culture I will give it a whirl if noone flips over that rock.

[CleveYank]

Originally posted by serpentman
I treated my system at the above mentioned concentrations with what appears to be success. The real test will be my low flow fuge which I will know in a couple of days. However, I plan to redose just in case a few of those buggers survive.

So far the only side effect I have noticed was my zoos instantly closed up. Also, the skimmer went nuts after a few minutes. I am assuming it was the dying flat worms that set it off.

Funny the guy who helps me with the concentration diliberation is the last to try and post his results. Sorry Jeff just bustin.

So I guess from what I know Serpentman and ItZme have the medium to heavy flatworm population tests without bad impacts.

And now we wait.

[psteeleb]

Just trying to keep this thread as one track as possible.....

I glad you did, it's frustrating when a topic gets off topic or too generic making it arduous to read or follow. And again, thanks for the effort; it's extra work, but an appreciated "give back" to the hobby. By providing an accurate documentation of a process and the results others should be able to not have to reinvent the wheel “so to speak�.

[CleveYank]

4th and final dose goes in later today.

Be nice to finally do some water changes again.