Fish dying... why?

[bbrown8370]

Hello,

I have a 12g AquaPod (not the one with metal hallide lighting). I have run into a problem, recently. Here's the background... I got the tank last year. Everything on it is pretty standard. It has lots of live rock and live sand. Some cheato growing the back of the tank. A pretty standard cleanup crew (nas snails, blue-leg crabs, margarita snails, astrea snails, you get the picture). Tons of pods. Literally tons of pods. So many that I decided to try a mandarin. Yeah, flame away. Anyway, he did fine for a couple of months, but started thinning, so I gave him to a friend who is a lot better at keeping them. He did manage to keep the pods in check though. Now they're back all over the place. There are some pretty big gnarly ones in the cheato.

After he left, I waited a couple of weeks then got some green star polyps. I waited another couple of weeks and got a royal gramma. It died about four days later. I noticed a gash on its tail a couple of days before it died. I figured that we must have overlooked this at the fish store. During the last day or so, he would try to "scratch" himself on the live rock. That's the only unusual behavior I saw out of him.

After his death, I waited a couple weeks, got some green frogspawn. The green star polyps were fine, and my intention was to get the frogspawn, then get a true perc to try to host in it.

A couple weeks later, I got the true perc. It died two days after I got it. It was from a different fish store than the last fish. Both fish stores seem pretty professional. Last night, his skin appeared to be peeling, somewhat. He also never seemed fully adjusted to the new tank.

So what could be going on? The green star polyps look great. The frogspawn looks great. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate all at zero. pH between 8.2 and 8.4. Specific gravity around 1.024 - 1.025. I just don't get it. I've had reef tanks in the past, but I've never experienced anything like this. The only thing I can think of is that there's a population of some parasitic pods in there. So, can anyone tell me I'm wrong, and tell me what is causing this... and how to fix it?

Please and thanks.

[Longchamp]

Have you tested your ammonia, nitrite? Its unlikely but possible i guess. I almost want to just chalk it up as bad luck. A lot of grammas are caught poorly and die due to this. The clown is a mystery since 99% of them are captive bred.

Id say buy a fish, then get a friend to hold it for you for a few weeks or a month, then put it in your tank. If it dies then you know it's something with your tank. How often are you doing water changes? Id do 20%/week for 6 weeks then try again.

[bbrown8370]

Yes, ammonia and nitrite test zero. It has also been my experience that, generally, the corals are more picky about water conditions than the fish. Since the corals don't appear to be suffering (GSP are growing, frogspawn is fully extended...), I'm hesitant to blame it on general water quality. Is this a safe assumption?

It can't hurt to do some water changes before adding anything else, though. You're right about that.

[tkeracer619]

Doubtfull its the water. Probably something in it.

I know its only a 12g but you should still be QTing fish. I would leave the tankwithout fish for a few months and pick up a 5gal tank and set it up as a qt. Watch the fish in that known clean system and treat if you see anything.

I would leave the tank alone for a few months though, sounds like something nasty is in the tank. Can you FW dip the rocks? Something might be hiding in them.

[stingythingy45]

"During the last day or so, he would try to "scratch" himself on the live rock. That's the only unusual behavior I saw out of him."

This very well could have been flukes.
You should read up about this parasite.

[bbrown8370]

Yeah, I should start QTing.

I suppose I can FW dip the rocks. I am concerned about the corals though. Can the GSP survive a FW dip? They are pretty matted to one of the rocks. Also, the Frogspawn has a decent amount of "rock"ish skeleton that it's growing from. I haven't read up on what is safe to do for these guys.

I suppose if I go this route, I should probably give the chaeto the same treatment...?

Also, any ideas about what could be hiding in the rocks?

[ConsultantERP]

Sounds like ick, evey time I read about it, I read about this "scratching" behavier. Ick requires a host sometime within its life cycle. If you can keep fish out of the tank for about 2 months it might die off within that tank. QT the fish in a HYPO (low salinity) tank to get rid of its infestation. After about 45 days start raising the salinity slowly, take several weeks to get it back up to your tanks salinity. Good luck.

[ConsultantERP]

Also, I'm no expert (so read in the fish decease forum), but the longer you can keep fish out of the reef tank, the more likely you are to kill of the ick.

[bbrown8370]

The more I think about this and read about the diseases you all have suggested, the more I think that it is either flukes or ich (or something similar). The two fish did appear to have skin damage prior to dying. It doesn't look like the normal spottyness of ich (seems more like patches of powdery white discoloration), but it's close enough that it could be.

So, a couple more questions...

How quickly can ich and/or flukes kill a fish? The first fish took about 4 days to die. The second took less than 48 hours to die. Can ich or flukes kill a fish this quickly?

Can ich or flukes damage either frogspawn or green star polyps?

I know ich can be killed by not giving it a host fish. Can flukes also be killed in this manner? If so, does anyone have experience with the lifecycle and timeframe that is needed?