Anyone Using LED Spotlights to supplement Metal Halides?

[arc eye]

I am setting up an open top aquarium and I planning on running one large lumenarc on a 400w ballast as my main source of PAR.

I am looking for a tasteful way to achieve actinic supplementation and the ability to create a dusk/dawn effect.

I came across a few people mentioning the use of either LED or 20K metal halide spot lights. Below is a link that shows basically what I'm talking about.

http://www.islaescondido.com/display...tegoryId=83228

Has anyone tried LED spot lights? Or better yet know where I can get them to try it myself?

[arc eye]

bump

[Harlequinreef]

I was also planning on using LED spotlights on my new tank, but i have no experience with them

[FishGuy5]

Also interested. Will be following the thread. Users please help!!!

[arc eye]

I know someone out there is doing it!

[Herzberg]

I have a 400w hqi and also 2 x e27 blue LED bulbs with 70 LEDS each. The HQI overpowers the LEDs to such a degree that I feel that having the LEDs on with the HQI is just a waste of electricity...! I can make them out in the shaded spots, but I can't tell if they are on anywhere else.

They are good for dawn/dusk effect though. They will give you shimmer-lines wich t5 will not.

[arc eye]

what are e27s?

[arc eye]

BUMP

[arc eye]

I know others must have dunnit!

[da1jewfish]

i have heard that you can do it, but you would need a ton of led's and wouldn't be cost effective b/c of it. similair to what herzberg said

[Gomer]

If you aren't using high powered LEDs like Cree XR-E's with optics, then don't even bother.

[arc eye]

How about 20K metal halide spotlights?

[HookedOnReefing]

"E27" is the type of base/fitting. E27 is a bulb with a large base/fitting (like your standard 100W household light bulb) and E14 with a small base/fitting (like your "candle light" bulbs).

Hope my explanation makes sense.

[GSMguy]

Glassboxdesign and Invincible569 use them.

google their names you will find their blogs both of them have excellent blogs.

[arc eye]

still looking for some ideas..........the profilux sticks and spot lights look pretty nice, but you need the whole unit to run them.

[JCTewks]

liveforphysics is using them on his 48" x 48" x 24" tank....unfortunately the site that was hosting his pics went down

You can DIY (if you're handy with a soldering Iron and can read a schematic) some spots using the Cree LED's and lenses. Just 1 LED and lens per "spot" will do the trick...and you can run them all from one CCSD.

[TStrong1969]

I'm using the simu spots on my profilux and love them!

[JCTewks]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1

Here's a link to liveforphysics thread

[mr294]

Originally posted by arc eye
still looking for some ideas..........the profilux sticks and spot lights look pretty nice, but you need the whole unit to run them.

The profilux simu spot works great for dawn/dusk/moonlight, but the main lighting will overpower it to the point that you can't tell the difference between having it on and not.

[FishTruck]

I just put one of these between my two Sfiligoi twin 400 watt MH reflectors.

http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/...&productId=402

It definitely stands up to 1600 watts of MH with SOLID actinic supplementation for the middle three feet of the tank. Even at the bottom.

I have JUST the UFO growlight on right now, and, it practically lights up the whole tank. It looks like a haunted house in there!

[ReefDoberman]

FishTruck - do you have a picture?

[FishTruck]

This is my tank before my LED actinic experiment. Mostly to orient you to the hood and light setup. Shown here are two sfiligoi pendants, each with two 400 watt MH lamps. You cant see the whole reflector without putting your head in the hood. This makes the reflectors look smaller in the picture below.



Adding my new UFO, I turned off the lights and turned on the UFO....

So...

Actinic only. This is a single 90 w LED fixture in the center of the tank, lighting up the whole thing. This tank is seven feet long.





This is the UFO 90 w LED grow light sitting between my two Metal Halide Reflectors. Off and On. In these pics, each MH reflector has a single 400 watt 20 k radium turned on. Thus, 90 watts of LED mixed in with 800 watts MH. In real life, there is no "dimming" like the camera shows. The LED really throws the camera off (in my hands), but, you can see the actinic effect is there.




All four metal halides on without, and with the UFO grow light. The actinic effect is harder for me to capture, but, enhanced corals without adding a huge blue look. The two other bulbs added now are reflux 12ks. So, 1600 watts MH (half radium 20k and half reeflux 12k) plus one 90 watt all blue UFO).




In my particular case, I have a "dark spot" right at the top of my middle rock pile. Rather than throw in a MH, I thought, I might put in some actinics and build some really nice LPS coral up to top and center. "Martian Mountain" maybe.

I have room for two more of these UFOs. One on each side of the tank. I will hold off on that for now... but who knows.

If I had to do it all again, I might try three lumen bright reflectors with two UFOs sandwiched between.

Finally, the pictures illustrate the point, but, don't really show how the tank looks. I would summarize what I actually see as follows.

1. Four Metal Halides plus UFO. Center of tank looks brighter and colors of LPS really pop. A pile of LPS on the rock pile will really stand out! Blinding.
2. Two Metal halides (radium 20k) plus UFO. Whole tank now has a more actinic look. Pleasant to view and bright.
3. UFO only. Looks like a haunted house. Pretty cool for a listen to dark side of the moon and a nice Gin Martini.

Enjoy!

[thereefaquarist]

I want to do an open top tank and was going to use powermodules to light it but I do love the affect that the metal halides give so I was wondering if a couple hanging LED spotlights would give the same affect.

[Wakeskater02]

Well, to answer some of these questions. The problem with LED technology is that even though they are bright they are directional.

The main light in the midle of the tank seems to be only focused straight down. This can be compensated for by different reflectors however, a loss of intensity also becomes problematic at that point.

Besides for Metal Halides being a UV based light (That why HQI's are covered by protective glass) they use the basic principle of UV technology to penetrate sea water and provide UV wavelength energy down to the corals towards the bottom of the tank.

This is not to say that corals wont grow by using LED lights, but they surely won't do as well as compared to using Metal Halide. As of currently, they have not found an LED source that has the same intensity that a MH lamp does. Even in combined patterns they might be bright, but they don't have the penetrating power.

Furthermore, the classic "Shimmer" affect that everyone loves from MH lighting comes from the way that sea water bends the UV light that comes from MH's. This is why Power Compacts, Actinics and LEDs do not "shimmer" quite like MH. In order to reproduce the very sought after affect, many new manufactures of LED fixtures put a "binking, or Shimmer" effect in to there light settings. I know the Solaris fixtures have it.

A bit more, yet further off topic. But nonetheless interesting. I used to do Public Relations work for a company that manufactured LED lighting. Through several different experiments we learned that Cholorophyll prefer light wavelengths that are in the red spectrum. We created a 24 gallon nanocube that had built-in 4w RGB LED lights in to the hood of the tank. We then rigged a numerical controller to the lights through a super small processor, which was coded to pretty much the same colors as HTML colors. Basically using a 5 digit number to represent a specific color. Using this system along with RGB LEDs we were able to create any color in the spectrum from bright white light to blues, reds, greens, and even deep violets which give the same effects as a black light on corals. (If you've never tried it, you should!) We started the experiment using regular blues and white lights from the LED. We then started experimenting with different color combinations. Believe it or not. We experienced the most growth and the happiest corals by adding red into the shown spectrum. I personally have a hypothesis to this. I think that red light has the highest energy coeficient next to UV light. Meaning the wavelength is much shorter, or in otherwords has more energy than any other color. So therefore it is absorbed and used by Cholorophyll more efficiently, there for providing the process of photosynthesis the energy it needs.

The reason I am saying this is because if you think about it. Metal Halides take a lot of energy to run. However, they also put out a lot of energy in the form of UV light. (GOOD FOR CORALS) But depending upon what corals you stock (softies this will work best for) I wonder what would happen if you used LEDs, but concentrated the color of light or wavelength of light in to the red spectrum. I wonder if the color of light will make up for the difference in power between Metal Halide and LEDS? Just something to think about.

[FishTruck]

THanks Wakeskater! Replies...

- Yep. Is this not why LEDs get more lumens per watt into your tank versus in the other lights? Thus, what is good and bad about LEDs is that they are unidirectional and focused.

- This one LED array covers about four feet of my tank on the bottom. If I want to add that blue look to the whole tank, two or three of these UFOs would be needed. As you say, they have various "lenses" on each LED that can spread the beam out a bid.

- And I always thought it was the effect of refraction on light from a point source that produced shimmer. Sort of like a tiny LED moonlight shimmers like crazy, but, put in 90 of them... not so much. I was not aware that UV shimmered more than other wavelengths.

- As you said about growth and LEDs... These grow lights ship mostly in RED! Maybe the next generation of LEDs for aquaria will include RED ones too!

Anyway, the question here was to see if a blue LED could stand up, visibly, to metal halide lamps. It can.

More musing... we play with lights not just for growing corals, but to make them look pretty. An ugly brown coral can be perfectly healthy... but is it worth building a tank around it? So, what makes corals produce reflective pigments? After adequate nutrition, I would guess that they often produce these to shield themselves from certain wavelengths. Thus, light that makes them look pretty now... might encourage them to make more of the very pigment that glows under the correct lights! Just like we humans get Tan in the sun. Naturally, I am sure it is more complicated than this... but... this is what I am going for.

Anyway, I plan to put a big pile of LPS right under this thing. We shall see how they look in a few months, and I will post.