Coral doesn't benefit from anything past 5 hours of intense light per day?

widmer · 05/07/2008, 10:48 PM

I brought this topic up a little while ago because I keep hearing this rumor floating around, but I don't know if people totally understood me at the time: I keep hearing that people are only running their halides for a few hours out of the day, and do fluorescent etc for the rest of the time. The rationale is that the corals don't really benefit from more than a few hours of intense light per day. This seems to fly in the face of everything I've learned though. As far as I know, energy in = energy out, all other things aside. Thus, halides on for full photoperiod = better growth.

What do you think?

demonsp · 05/07/2008, 11:16 PM

Not all coral benifit from better lighting but all coral do better with better lighting.

styndall · 05/07/2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by demonsp
Not all coral benifit from better lighting but all coral do better with better lighting.

?

phil121 · 05/07/2008, 11:26 PM

I have seen a few people who do exactly what you said, but I don't honestly know why. Reefs get quite a bit of light each day, but I am not sure how intense it is. When the sun is over head it probably gets the most intense light, but I wonder how the intensity of the sun at early morning and late evening compare to most people's light intensity in their tank?

Intensity in my aquarium over any given period of time will be in a straight line, while in a natural environment it will not. Perhaps that is what they are trying to mimic.

Playa-1 · 05/07/2008, 11:30 PM

Each tank has its own lighting requirements. There are just too many variables. Lighting systems/options, tanks sizes, occupants of the tank, operators budget/beliefs, etc....
If you have low to medium light critters in a shallow tank then maybe halides for extended photo periods may not be a great idea.

Playa-1 · 05/07/2008, 11:38 PM

I also agree with Phil in that some people are simply trying to recreate a normal daylight cycle with the most intense lighting during the middle of the lighting cycle. Also others are simply trying to get the most bang for their buck with electricity output. Not everyone is trying to achieve maximum growth, Some people may be trying to maintain healthy corals with slow growth.

widmer · 05/08/2008, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Playa-1
Each tank has its own lighting requirements. There are just too many variables. Lighting systems/options, tanks sizes, occupants of the tank, operators budget/beliefs, etc....
If you have low to medium light critters in a shallow tank then maybe halides for extended photo periods may not be a great idea.

This post doesn't really pertain to the question I posed in any way shape or form, except I guess it is related to lighting in its own way.

widmer · 05/08/2008, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Playa-1
I also agree with Phil in that some people are simply trying to recreate a normal daylight cycle with the most intense lighting during the middle of the lighting cycle. Also others are simply trying to get the most bang for their buck with electricity output. Not everyone is trying to achieve maximum growth, Some people may be trying to maintain healthy corals with slow growth.

You may be on to something here- people looking to get the most bang for their buck, maintaining healthy corals and/or potentially seeking to mimic the natural intensity cycle.

My question still remains; I've heard people say before that corals don't benefit from more than a few hours of intense light per day, and I'm wondering if that's nothing more than misinformation like I suspect?

greenbean36191 · 05/08/2008, 05:18 AM

No, it's not true.

Orochimaru · 05/08/2008, 07:55 AM

When I am in doubt, I just go to all the TOTM and see what those folks do. In general, people can say whatever they want but if their tanks don't back them up, I wouldn't take them too seriously.

widmer · 05/08/2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Orochimaru
When I am in doubt, I just go to all the TOTM and see what those folks do. In general, people can say whatever they want but if their tanks don't back them up, I wouldn't take them too seriously.

I'm with ya. Kind of reminds me of when I was at work, my boss was thinking about getting back into salt water and he was asking me some questions about it. He was like "Yea I'd like to get back into it but then I'd need to buy all that expensive equipment." I'm like "Well it's really not that bad, depending on what you do you don't necessarily need a protein skimmer for instance." Coworker named Sam speaks up, and with a high level of conviction: "Oh- you absolutely need a protein skimmer." Never mind that he's never kept a saltwater aquarium of any sort, he just 'knows'.

widmer · 05/08/2008, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by greenbean36191
No, it's not true.

? I guess I need more information lol.

sjames · 05/08/2008, 09:50 AM

I beleive there have been studies where corals grow best with long photoperiods. 11+ hours

The decision to limit photoperiods with MH I think is more due to heat and electricity concerns.

Playa-1 · 05/08/2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by widmer
This post doesn't really pertain to the question I posed in any way shape or form, except I guess it is related to lighting in its own way.

I would say that your question was somewhat vague. It's somewhat hard to tell what the point was for the question in the first place.

akaatomic · 05/08/2008, 12:32 PM

I keep my halides on for 5-6 hours for two reasons. Cost of electricity and coral response. Just about all of the softies in my tank start to close up or wither after 6 hours of my halides being on. I'm sure that my SPS would love a longer cycle, but they're healthy and growing. I like having my tank lit for 12 hours for viewing purposes. I run PC's for 4 hours, then halides for 5 and then PC's for another 3 (15min overlap). Seems to be working OK. I've read that corals only need a few hours of halides, but it was all forum posts. No scientific data. I say listen to your livestock. Pay attention and adjust as necessary.

rhkingsfan · 05/08/2008, 03:05 PM

Ditto to akaatomic. I have mushrooms and LPS and I just run my MH on a timer from 5pm to midnight. Start at 5 because its cooler and I get to enjoy my fish when I'm home. I used to run actinics on the VHO for another 8 hours but came to notice I was wasting a lot of electricity for very little benefit (another 220 watts)

downhillbiker · 05/08/2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by demonsp
Not all coral benifit from better lighting but all coral do better with better lighting.

I AGREE TOTALLY!!! wait...what the **** am i agreeing with?

nalbar · 05/08/2008, 03:21 PM

The thing about sun light is it's only 'intense' for a few hours a day. As the angle of the sun gets lower it has to penetrate more atmosphere, making for less light. This effect is compounded when the angle involves water as well as atmosphere. You also get the shadow effect, meaning as the angle grows, things get blocked as shadows grow longer. The greater depth, the more all this comes into play. Followed through, this means shallow corals need more light than deeper. (DUH! LOL!)

It's why some go with t5 first, then the MH comes on, then MH off, then t5 off.

The same thing can be accomplished with ambient room light. My MH (no other lighting) are on for 7 hours.

But there is no hard and fast rule. Like so much of what we do, it's all inhabitant determined. You have to watch your tank.

nalbar

widmer · 05/08/2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by akaatomic
I keep my halides on for 5-6 hours for two reasons. Cost of electricity and coral response. Just about all of the softies in my tank start to close up or wither after 6 hours of my halides being on. I'm sure that my SPS would love a longer cycle, but they're healthy and growing. I like having my tank lit for 12 hours for viewing purposes. I run PC's for 4 hours, then halides for 5 and then PC's for another 3 (15min overlap). Seems to be working OK. I've read that corals only need a few hours of halides, but it was all forum posts. No scientific data. I say listen to your livestock. Pay attention and adjust as necessary.

I bet that's where the rumor came from. I haven't experienced it firsthand (maybe it's time to upgrade lighting ;-) ), but I can see how the mushrooms etc would close up after too much light. I wonder if somewhere along the line, someone just interpreted this to mean that all corals (including SPS) don't benefit past a few hours of intense light. But I bet the SPS do indeed prefer longer periods of intense light. I wonder what the frag farmers do for photoperiod/period of intense light, as I bet they're always looking for the best balance of cost effectiveness vs growth rate.

widmer · 05/08/2008, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nalbar
The thing about sun light is it's only 'intense' for a few hours a day. As the angle of the sun gets lower it has to penetrate more atmosphere, making for less light. This effect is compounded when the angle involves water as well as atmosphere. You also get the shadow effect, meaning as the angle grows, things get blocked as shadows grow longer. The greater depth, the more all this comes into play. Followed through, this means shallow corals need more light than deeper. (DUH! LOL!)

It's why some go with t5 first, then the MH comes on, then MH off, then t5 off.

The same thing can be accomplished with ambient room light. My MH (no other lighting) are on for 7 hours.

But there is no hard and fast rule. Like so much of what we do, it's all inhabitant determined. You have to watch your tank.

nalbar

Excellent contribution. The shadow effect thing makes perfect sense, and I'm sure that by far and large corals are adapted to only recieving a few hours of direct light per day because of this. But I wonder if it's really the ideal situation for them?

macreefster · 05/08/2008, 04:00 PM

i agree with doing what those with the TOTM's do sentiment. results speak louder than words and following what other successful tanks do seems to work for me. otherwise i'd go crazy trying to overthink every aspect of a reef tank! opps....too late, i think i'm already crazy.

rhoptowit · 05/08/2008, 04:08 PM

i read in a book, forgot which book though....well anyways i read in a book somewere that corals in a natural reef setting recieive "intense lighintg" for short period of time over the entire day. too many variable which have already been pointed out contribute to the loss of light corals recieve. clouds, angle of the sun, time of the day, free floating sediment in the water all take away from the amount of light that reach the coral.

compared to a home aquarium the intensity of light dosent change over much a given period of time.

but i think the argument in the book was something more along the lines of not trying to match the sun's PAR readings because the coral in a home aquarium will get the full amount of "light intensity" recieved in a natural reef setting, just over a larger amount of time.

Anemone · 05/08/2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rhoptowit
but i think the argument in the book was something more along the lines of not trying to match the sun's PAR readings because the coral in a home aquarium will get the full amount of "light intensity" recieved in a natural reef setting, just over a larger amount of time.

I think the argument is more along the lines of a natural reef receives much, much more PAR than we could ever provide during an average day. Basically, the natural reef gets it in a much shorter period of very high intensity, but longer periods of less intense light (in our tanks) can give our photosynthetic friends enough energy to compensate for not getting the same high intensity energy burst the natural reef gets.

FWIW,
Kevin

rhoptowit · 05/08/2008, 05:53 PM

isnt that wat i said.

Roy G. Biv · 05/08/2008, 07:26 PM

Isnt your risk for sunburn from 10am - 3pm? I would say that is the intense time.

05/07/2008, 10:48 PM	#1
widmer Drug Enthusiast Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rochester, MN Posts: 2,958	Coral doesn't benefit from anything past 5 hours of intense light per day? I brought this topic up a little while ago because I keep hearing this rumor floating around, but I don't know if people totally understood me at the time: I keep hearing that people are only running their halides for a few hours out of the day, and do fluorescent etc for the rest of the time. The rationale is that the corals don't really benefit from more than a few hours of intense light per day. This seems to fly in the face of everything I've learned though. As far as I know, energy in = energy out, all other things aside. Thus, halides on for full photoperiod = better growth. What do you think?

05/08/2008, 05:18 AM	#9
greenbean36191 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 10,598	No, it's not true. __________________ Some say the sun rises in the East. Some say it rises in the West. The truth must be somewhere in the middle. Current Tank Info: tore them down to move and haven't had the time or money to set them back up

05/08/2008, 07:55 AM	#10
Orochimaru 1 of 3 legendary ninjas Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Leaf Village of OC Posts: 3,324	When I am in doubt, I just go to all the TOTM and see what those folks do. In general, people can say whatever they want but if their tanks don't back them up, I wouldn't take them too seriously. __________________ Gintama, episode 118 = "Live an honest life even if your back is crooked." STD(s) are not Pokemons, you don't have to catch them all!

05/08/2008, 04:00 PM	#21
macreefster Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: michigan Posts: 1,015	i agree with doing what those with the TOTM's do sentiment. results speak louder than words and following what other successful tanks do seems to work for me. otherwise i'd go crazy trying to overthink every aspect of a reef tank! opps....too late, i think i'm already crazy. __________________ mac Current Tank Info: 70gal sps reef (36x24x20), 50g sump, 25g refugium, vertex alpha cone 170, 2 x 250w 14k phoenix w/ lumenmax 3's, 2 vortech mp40w's, eheim 1262 return pump

05/07/2008, 11:16 PM	#2
demonsp Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: el paso tx Posts: 7,634	Not all coral benifit from better lighting but all coral do better with better lighting.

05/07/2008, 11:26 PM	#4
phil121 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 105	I have seen a few people who do exactly what you said, but I don't honestly know why. Reefs get quite a bit of light each day, but I am not sure how intense it is. When the sun is over head it probably gets the most intense light, but I wonder how the intensity of the sun at early morning and late evening compare to most people's light intensity in their tank? Intensity in my aquarium over any given period of time will be in a straight line, while in a natural environment it will not. Perhaps that is what they are trying to mimic.

05/07/2008, 11:30 PM	#5
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	Each tank has its own lighting requirements. There are just too many variables. Lighting systems/options, tanks sizes, occupants of the tank, operators budget/beliefs, etc.... If you have low to medium light critters in a shallow tank then maybe halides for extended photo periods may not be a great idea.

05/07/2008, 11:38 PM	#6
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	I also agree with Phil in that some people are simply trying to recreate a normal daylight cycle with the most intense lighting during the middle of the lighting cycle. Also others are simply trying to get the most bang for their buck with electricity output. Not everyone is trying to achieve maximum growth, Some people may be trying to maintain healthy corals with slow growth.

05/08/2008, 09:50 AM	#13
sjames Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: PA Posts: 675	I beleive there have been studies where corals grow best with long photoperiods. 11+ hours The decision to limit photoperiods with MH I think is more due to heat and electricity concerns.

05/08/2008, 12:32 PM	#15
akaatomic Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 155	I keep my halides on for 5-6 hours for two reasons. Cost of electricity and coral response. Just about all of the softies in my tank start to close up or wither after 6 hours of my halides being on. I'm sure that my SPS would love a longer cycle, but they're healthy and growing. I like having my tank lit for 12 hours for viewing purposes. I run PC's for 4 hours, then halides for 5 and then PC's for another 3 (15min overlap). Seems to be working OK. I've read that corals only need a few hours of halides, but it was all forum posts. No scientific data. I say listen to your livestock. Pay attention and adjust as necessary.

05/08/2008, 03:05 PM	#16
rhkingsfan Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Glendale Posts: 696	Ditto to akaatomic. I have mushrooms and LPS and I just run my MH on a timer from 5pm to midnight. Start at 5 because its cooler and I get to enjoy my fish when I'm home. I used to run actinics on the VHO for another 8 hours but came to notice I was wasting a lot of electricity for very little benefit (another 220 watts)

05/08/2008, 03:21 PM	#18
nalbar Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 163	The thing about sun light is it's only 'intense' for a few hours a day. As the angle of the sun gets lower it has to penetrate more atmosphere, making for less light. This effect is compounded when the angle involves water as well as atmosphere. You also get the shadow effect, meaning as the angle grows, things get blocked as shadows grow longer. The greater depth, the more all this comes into play. Followed through, this means shallow corals need more light than deeper. (DUH! LOL!) It's why some go with t5 first, then the MH comes on, then MH off, then t5 off. The same thing can be accomplished with ambient room light. My MH (no other lighting) are on for 7 hours. But there is no hard and fast rule. Like so much of what we do, it's all inhabitant determined. You have to watch your tank. nalbar

05/08/2008, 04:08 PM	#22
rhoptowit Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 415	i read in a book, forgot which book though....well anyways i read in a book somewere that corals in a natural reef setting recieive "intense lighintg" for short period of time over the entire day. too many variable which have already been pointed out contribute to the loss of light corals recieve. clouds, angle of the sun, time of the day, free floating sediment in the water all take away from the amount of light that reach the coral. compared to a home aquarium the intensity of light dosent change over much a given period of time. but i think the argument in the book was something more along the lines of not trying to match the sun's PAR readings because the coral in a home aquarium will get the full amount of "light intensity" recieved in a natural reef setting, just over a larger amount of time.

05/08/2008, 05:53 PM	#24
rhoptowit Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 415	isnt that wat i said.

05/08/2008, 07:26 PM	#25
Roy G. Biv Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,646	Isnt your risk for sunburn from 10am - 3pm? I would say that is the intense time.