please help me asap tank crashing in need of a method to move to my new tank asap

brad7373 · 06/16/2008, 10:26 PM

ok so heres what ive done ive move my live rock from my 36 to my 90 and by doing that i believe i just made the tank crash. every creature seems ok but my parameters arent ideal and slowly deteriorating by the day. would it be ok to take my old hang on wet dry (amiracle sl-5 with built in proteinskimmer) and put it on to the 90... move al the fish, shrimp, bta, cleanup crew and 2 polyps over to the 90 within the next day? the 90 has been cycling for a week but keep in mind im cycling a tank not live rock in it i already have the cured liverock from the 36 in it (34lbs about and im cycling 45 more in a garbage can). can i also add a new ocelaris clown 2 my tank because i already have 1 and know they are territorial and need to be added at the same time, or will this be WAY to much bioload upon the tank as of rite now. my 36 fish list consist of.... 1 blue damsel 1, Yellow Candy Hogfish, orange spotted goby, royal gramma, and in QT at the moment is a juvie blue tang but i wont add him for a few weeks anyway due to ich. please help me asap i want to do the rite thing i dont want to see them die =\

silent saab · 06/17/2008, 09:30 AM

well so you jus added the live rock to your 90 from the 36? well you most likely took all your beneficial bacteria that is in your live rocks outta the 36 and put them in your 90 so now your tank isnt stable and of coarse things arent going to be the same anymore... do you have a qt tank that is stable that you can keep everything in till you get your 90 stable for about a month?

Sk8r · 06/17/2008, 11:03 AM

Silent saab is quite right. After everything that has happened, quarantine setup would be best until you get this straightened out. You can set up qt in a Rubbermaid Brute trashcan if you must, put a very good filter on it (ordinarily I hate filters, but qt is where they are a must) and just concentrate on keeping that water scrupulously clean, filter cleaned, water tested daily.
Your sandbed, if you used old sand, will surely have overturned, and that would create a spike. Your tank will do fine, but a 36 as the "from" tank just wasn't big enough to carry the 90 as the "to" tank. Go ahead and qt the clowns, but (I hate to pile tubs and buckets on your situation) I'd qt the two clowns in a separate bucket, in case your new clown has ich---at least that way he can't give it to your whole fishy crew.
I'd also put the clowns into a fully transparent tank so you can keep an eye on that new guy: no sense letting him get a fullblown case in the bottom of a dark bucket and losing both clowns to it.

stingythingy45 · 06/17/2008, 11:11 AM

What's the big deal?
Just move everything into the 90 gallon.
Why are you cycling an empty tank anyways?
The cycled LR from your 36 gallon should work just fine to keep ammonia at bay.I'm trying to figure out why you're freaking out.lol
Just "Git er Done".
I moved from a 55 into a 90 gallon,lock,stock and barrel all in 3 hrs.

brad7373 · 06/17/2008, 11:15 AM

thanks for your help. last nite i stayed up pretty late and manage to stabalize the 36. i woke up this morning to the beautiful crystal clear tank i was used to. everything seems good to go at the moment but still watching parameters daily and blue tang is still in QT for ich even tho i dont see dots anymore.... but hes still twitches here and there should he still be QT?

Playa-1 · 06/17/2008, 11:21 AM

ICH, did the Tang get ICH in your main display tank and then you moved it to QT?

stingythingy45 · 06/17/2008, 11:26 AM

Yes,keep that tang in QT for at least 6-8 weeks.
Have you started any treatment?
It's JME,but I really don't know why you don't just move the Fish into the 90 gallon.You can always add your cycled LR from the bins later.
Sk8r was right about the clown,missed that in your post the first time I read it.If i's a new fish it should be QTed also.

brad7373 · 06/17/2008, 12:12 PM

yea he cought it in the main tank. and i dont kno im just taking it slow i rather not have the new tank crash all because i rushed. in the main tank just to keep the other fish okay i used kick-ich and for the tang in QT im using cupramine. started that treatment on him yesterday and the kick-ich got rid of his spots in the main tank because my LFS stressed the fact that the parasite will remain in the main tanks water so its better to kill it all with the reef safe med. however i continued to see him get agressive and twitchy so i moved him to the QT and the cupramine has made everything hault. he seems fine now

silent saab · 06/17/2008, 01:06 PM

from stingythingy45

Quote:

I moved from a 55 into a 90 gallon,lock,stock and barrel all in 3 hrs.

hes going from a 36 to a 90.. way bigger jump not enough bacteria to support the big jump... better to take it super slow so you are not set up for failure...

brad7373 · 06/17/2008, 01:10 PM

thanks for agreeing there silent. its been running a week and now im jsut thinking ill probably move the bioballs from the old filter over to the new 1 too and this should keep it all stable for the coming weeks then i would begin adding the other fish id like to get. does this sound like a good plan?

brad7373 · 06/17/2008, 01:11 PM

the 90 has been running for a week and the 36 has been for 5months forgot 2 say that

stingythingy45 · 06/17/2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent saab
from stingythingy45

hes going from a 36 to a 90.. way bigger jump not enough bacteria to support the big jump... better to take it super slow so you are not set up for failure...

Why do you need bacteria to support a jump?

If he is not adding anymore bioload and is moving his(hopefully)well cured seeded rock along with his fish,why would he need more?The simple answer is:he wouldn't.
He would be effectively moving his biological filter along with his fish.Now he has effectively moved his biological filter,but left his fish out.And now he's scrambling to figure out why the 36 is now going South.Sure bacteria that's left on the glass and such would be left behind in a move.But all you really needed to do was move the old sand to seed the new substrate.And if you had any,move filter media as well.Sure you might get a slight,and I mean slight hint of ammonia on a test kit.But the biological filter would simple grow to consume it right away.
I've cycled now 4 tanks,all different ways.
You would have been fine with the move.
But there's nothing wrong with going slow.

ReefNutPA · 06/17/2008, 10:25 PM

I'd be more concerned about the taking of live rock from a tank where a fish developed ich and putting it in the new tank. Your LFS was correct that the free-swimming stage of the ich parasite would be in your water, but the dormant cysts would be in your sandbed and live rock - which you now put in your new tank.

Tom

brad7373 · 06/17/2008, 10:56 PM

okay i moved everything tonight to the 90 with help from my sister. it took a good 2hours. my question now is should i medicate the new tank with kick-ich jsut to kill off any of the ich on the rocks that may of made it?

Playa-1 · 06/17/2008, 11:28 PM

The Ich is the big issue.
I would move the livestock to the 90 and treat with Hypo for 45 days. Leave the inverts where they are in the mean time.

In 45 days slowly bring up the salinity add your new completely cured live rock and inverts.

Upgrade the skimmer asap.

tmz · 06/18/2008, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Playa-1
The Ich is the big issue.
I would move the livestock to the 90 and treat with Hypo for 45 days. Leave the inverts where they are in the mean time.

In 45 days slowly bring up the salinity add your new completely cured live rock and inverts.

Upgrade the skimmer asap.

I agree. The kick ich won't likely do the job. You probably have moved some ich into your 90 with the live rock from the 36. If you leave the inverts out you can treat the 90 with hypo without killing off your denitrifiers if you bring it down to 1.009 over a 2 day period. Again keep the inverts out of there since hypo will kill them.

The tang should remain in quarantine for 4 weeks miniumum after symptoms have disappeared. If he keeps twitching and there are no spots consiode that he may have flukes and require another type of treatment such as formalin or prazi pro.

I also agree that there is no need to worry about cycle since you moved your entire biofilter into the 90 without any additional bioload. Just be patient about adding new rock and do it a little at a time. I am assuming you have not added a new or disturbed sand bed to the 90.

silent saab · 06/18/2008, 09:49 AM

so then whats the point in letting s new tank cycle, if your not using alot if any of the old water from the 36 and live rock whats the difference, with the way that its sounding is that i can set up my new tank and a new sand bed with a cup from the established sand bed and my live rock with new RO/DI salt water and skip the cycle process completely since im using already good rock outta my established tank? right?

cczarnik · 06/18/2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent saab
so then whats the point in letting s new tank cycle, if your not using alot if any of the old water from the 36 and live rock whats the difference, with the way that its sounding is that i can set up my new tank and a new sand bed with a cup from the established sand bed and my live rock with new RO/DI salt water and skip the cycle process completely since im using already good rock outta my established tank? right?

That's more or less what I've done on two tanks now, I saw detectable ammonia, but never even got to .25ppm. Both were mature tank moves of 300 miles+ into new systems, both with relatively low bioloads. No losses. But that won't work for Brad if his goal is to knock the ICH down through the move. Chuck

silent saab · 06/18/2008, 11:41 AM

oh wow cause i did a 4 month cycle before i added anything, if i could have gotten around that i would of liked to stock it sooner...

stingythingy45 · 06/18/2008, 12:30 PM

4 Month cycle?
I hope you meant 4 weeks.lol

silent saab · 06/18/2008, 01:20 PM

yeah thats what i ment... sorry

brad7373 · 06/18/2008, 02:39 PM

well everything in the tank seems fine no problems what so ever and no matter what u always have traces of ich in the tank u just have 2 make sure the fish dont contract it by letting there imune system down its just a part of life. just for safety tho i may do kick ich on it. it worked fine for my 36. no signs of anything on anyfish not even the tang anymore. his twitching has stopped but he still breathes heavy. any word on that? im using cupramine on him in QT and will leave him there until he is better for 2weeks after that

06/16/2008, 10:26 PM	#1
brad7373 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: new york, new york Posts: 374	please help me asap tank crashing in need of a method to move to my new tank asap ok so heres what ive done ive move my live rock from my 36 to my 90 and by doing that i believe i just made the tank crash. every creature seems ok but my parameters arent ideal and slowly deteriorating by the day. would it be ok to take my old hang on wet dry (amiracle sl-5 with built in proteinskimmer) and put it on to the 90... move al the fish, shrimp, bta, cleanup crew and 2 polyps over to the 90 within the next day? the 90 has been cycling for a week but keep in mind im cycling a tank not live rock in it i already have the cured liverock from the 36 in it (34lbs about and im cycling 45 more in a garbage can). can i also add a new ocelaris clown 2 my tank because i already have 1 and know they are territorial and need to be added at the same time, or will this be WAY to much bioload upon the tank as of rite now. my 36 fish list consist of.... 1 blue damsel 1, Yellow Candy Hogfish, orange spotted goby, royal gramma, and in QT at the moment is a juvie blue tang but i wont add him for a few weeks anyway due to ich. please help me asap i want to do the rite thing i dont want to see them die =\

06/17/2008, 09:30 AM	#2
silent saab Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Denver,colorado Posts: 323	well so you jus added the live rock to your 90 from the 36? well you most likely took all your beneficial bacteria that is in your live rocks outta the 36 and put them in your 90 so now your tank isnt stable and of coarse things arent going to be the same anymore... do you have a qt tank that is stable that you can keep everything in till you get your 90 stable for about a month? __________________ SW Aquarium = little ocean in a box!! Current Tank Info: 50 Gallon acrylic: mixed reef 20lbs LS, 25lbs LR,3 diff damsels, i clarkie clown, 1 banghai cardnal, 2 t-5HO DIY, 1 accu start ballast over driven bulbs to 54w, 2 blue plus,1 400w 15k MH light, 15g sump/fuge, ASM g-1x skimmer mesh modded.

06/17/2008, 11:03 AM	#3
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Silent saab is quite right. After everything that has happened, quarantine setup would be best until you get this straightened out. You can set up qt in a Rubbermaid Brute trashcan if you must, put a very good filter on it (ordinarily I hate filters, but qt is where they are a must) and just concentrate on keeping that water scrupulously clean, filter cleaned, water tested daily. Your sandbed, if you used old sand, will surely have overturned, and that would create a spike. Your tank will do fine, but a 36 as the "from" tank just wasn't big enough to carry the 90 as the "to" tank. Go ahead and qt the clowns, but (I hate to pile tubs and buckets on your situation) I'd qt the two clowns in a separate bucket, in case your new clown has ich---at least that way he can't give it to your whole fishy crew. I'd also put the clowns into a fully transparent tank so you can keep an eye on that new guy: no sense letting him get a fullblown case in the bottom of a dark bucket and losing both clowns to it. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

06/17/2008, 11:11 AM	#4
stingythingy45 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: MA Posts: 3,296	What's the big deal? Just move everything into the 90 gallon. Why are you cycling an empty tank anyways? The cycled LR from your 36 gallon should work just fine to keep ammonia at bay.I'm trying to figure out why you're freaking out.lol Just "Git er Done". I moved from a 55 into a 90 gallon,lock,stock and barrel all in 3 hrs. __________________ Bob Current Tank Info: 90 gallon,mixed Reef,2-250 watt Optix 3 pendants(Phoenix 14K)2-54 watt T5 Super actnics ,ASM G-2 Gate/recirc mods,70 gal. basement sump,20L ref

06/17/2008, 11:21 AM	#6
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	ICH, did the Tang get ICH in your main display tank and then you moved it to QT? Last edited by Playa-1; 06/17/2008 at 11:27 AM.

06/17/2008, 11:15 AM	#5
brad7373 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: new york, new york Posts: 374	thanks for your help. last nite i stayed up pretty late and manage to stabalize the 36. i woke up this morning to the beautiful crystal clear tank i was used to. everything seems good to go at the moment but still watching parameters daily and blue tang is still in QT for ich even tho i dont see dots anymore.... but hes still twitches here and there should he still be QT?

06/17/2008, 11:26 AM	#7
stingythingy45 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: MA Posts: 3,296	Yes,keep that tang in QT for at least 6-8 weeks. Have you started any treatment? It's JME,but I really don't know why you don't just move the Fish into the 90 gallon.You can always add your cycled LR from the bins later. Sk8r was right about the clown,missed that in your post the first time I read it.If i's a new fish it should be QTed also. __________________ Bob Current Tank Info: 90 gallon,mixed Reef,2-250 watt Optix 3 pendants(Phoenix 14K)2-54 watt T5 Super actnics ,ASM G-2 Gate/recirc mods,70 gal. basement sump,20L ref

06/17/2008, 12:12 PM	#8
brad7373 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: new york, new york Posts: 374	yea he cought it in the main tank. and i dont kno im just taking it slow i rather not have the new tank crash all because i rushed. in the main tank just to keep the other fish okay i used kick-ich and for the tang in QT im using cupramine. started that treatment on him yesterday and the kick-ich got rid of his spots in the main tank because my LFS stressed the fact that the parasite will remain in the main tanks water so its better to kill it all with the reef safe med. however i continued to see him get agressive and twitchy so i moved him to the QT and the cupramine has made everything hault. he seems fine now

06/17/2008, 01:10 PM	#10
brad7373 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: new york, new york Posts: 374	thanks for agreeing there silent. its been running a week and now im jsut thinking ill probably move the bioballs from the old filter over to the new 1 too and this should keep it all stable for the coming weeks then i would begin adding the other fish id like to get. does this sound like a good plan?

06/17/2008, 01:11 PM	#11
brad7373 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: new york, new york Posts: 374	the 90 has been running for a week and the 36 has been for 5months forgot 2 say that

06/17/2008, 10:25 PM	#13
ReefNutPA Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Pottsville, PA Posts: 852	I'd be more concerned about the taking of live rock from a tank where a fish developed ich and putting it in the new tank. Your LFS was correct that the free-swimming stage of the ich parasite would be in your water, but the dormant cysts would be in your sandbed and live rock - which you now put in your new tank. Tom

06/17/2008, 10:56 PM	#14
brad7373 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: new york, new york Posts: 374	okay i moved everything tonight to the 90 with help from my sister. it took a good 2hours. my question now is should i medicate the new tank with kick-ich jsut to kill off any of the ich on the rocks that may of made it?

06/17/2008, 11:28 PM	#15
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	The Ich is the big issue. I would move the livestock to the 90 and treat with Hypo for 45 days. Leave the inverts where they are in the mean time. In 45 days slowly bring up the salinity add your new completely cured live rock and inverts. Upgrade the skimmer asap.

06/18/2008, 09:49 AM	#17
silent saab Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Denver,colorado Posts: 323	so then whats the point in letting s new tank cycle, if your not using alot if any of the old water from the 36 and live rock whats the difference, with the way that its sounding is that i can set up my new tank and a new sand bed with a cup from the established sand bed and my live rock with new RO/DI salt water and skip the cycle process completely since im using already good rock outta my established tank? right? __________________ SW Aquarium = little ocean in a box!! Current Tank Info: 50 Gallon acrylic: mixed reef 20lbs LS, 25lbs LR,3 diff damsels, i clarkie clown, 1 banghai cardnal, 2 t-5HO DIY, 1 accu start ballast over driven bulbs to 54w, 2 blue plus,1 400w 15k MH light, 15g sump/fuge, ASM g-1x skimmer mesh modded.

06/18/2008, 11:41 AM	#19
silent saab Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Denver,colorado Posts: 323	oh wow cause i did a 4 month cycle before i added anything, if i could have gotten around that i would of liked to stock it sooner... __________________ SW Aquarium = little ocean in a box!! Current Tank Info: 50 Gallon acrylic: mixed reef 20lbs LS, 25lbs LR,3 diff damsels, i clarkie clown, 1 banghai cardnal, 2 t-5HO DIY, 1 accu start ballast over driven bulbs to 54w, 2 blue plus,1 400w 15k MH light, 15g sump/fuge, ASM g-1x skimmer mesh modded.

06/18/2008, 12:30 PM	#20
stingythingy45 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: MA Posts: 3,296	4 Month cycle? I hope you meant 4 weeks.lol __________________ Bob Current Tank Info: 90 gallon,mixed Reef,2-250 watt Optix 3 pendants(Phoenix 14K)2-54 watt T5 Super actnics ,ASM G-2 Gate/recirc mods,70 gal. basement sump,20L ref

06/18/2008, 01:20 PM	#21
silent saab Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Denver,colorado Posts: 323	yeah thats what i ment... sorry __________________ SW Aquarium = little ocean in a box!! Current Tank Info: 50 Gallon acrylic: mixed reef 20lbs LS, 25lbs LR,3 diff damsels, i clarkie clown, 1 banghai cardnal, 2 t-5HO DIY, 1 accu start ballast over driven bulbs to 54w, 2 blue plus,1 400w 15k MH light, 15g sump/fuge, ASM g-1x skimmer mesh modded.

06/18/2008, 02:39 PM	#22
brad7373 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: new york, new york Posts: 374	well everything in the tank seems fine no problems what so ever and no matter what u always have traces of ich in the tank u just have 2 make sure the fish dont contract it by letting there imune system down its just a part of life. just for safety tho i may do kick ich on it. it worked fine for my 36. no signs of anything on anyfish not even the tang anymore. his twitching has stopped but he still breathes heavy. any word on that? im using cupramine on him in QT and will leave him there until he is better for 2weeks after that