R/O water

redvicki · 06/21/2008, 05:24 PM

Okay this is my first time making R/O water and my system is used so no instructions. Which comes out faster the R/O water or the waste? My system does have the piece that makes it work faster...trying to fill my tank and want to be sure I'm filling it with the right water before I dump in my salt. Thanks.

kau_cinta_ku · 06/21/2008, 05:42 PM

the ro water should be much slower then the waste water. you should get a 4:1 bad to good water.

AZDesertRat · 06/21/2008, 05:45 PM

Make sure you get a TDS meter as soon as possible. If you had one now you could test the output and find the TDS out of the RO should be approx. 98% less than the tap water and the waste flow would be 20-25% higher TDS than the tap water TDS since its concentrated.
If the system is used, did you replace the filters or do you know what condition it is in?

Aquarist007 · 06/21/2008, 05:45 PM

I agree with Sam but can you post a pic of the unit to be sure?

Aquarist007 · 06/21/2008, 05:49 PM

sorry AJ I wasn't aware you were posting while I was typing

Roy G. Biv · 06/21/2008, 07:41 PM

AJ, do you get an instant email notification when a post has "R.O." in it

snorvich · 06/21/2008, 08:15 PM

He should. Look at what he does for a living. Our resident water expert!!

Aquarist007 · 06/21/2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by snorvich
He should. Look at what he does for a living. Our resident water expert!!

+1 on that we are fortunate to have his advice on RC

I still don't know after all these posts how some of the guys keep track if a certain word is mention like r/o
other then doing a search it is still a mystery

Playa-1 · 06/21/2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AZDesertRat
Make sure you get a TDS meter as soon as possible. If you had one now you could test the output and find the TDS out of the RO should be approx. 98% less than the tap water and the waste flow would be 20-25% higher TDS than the tap water TDS since its concentrated.
If the system is used, did you replace the filters or do you know what condition it is in?

I agree with AZ

I'm interested in the piece that makes it go faster. I suspect that might just be a back-flush valve for the membrane. A way to rinse the RO membrane and get more life out of it. Or maybe a booster pump?

redvicki · 06/22/2008, 07:39 AM

I give up...I filled had about 40 gallons of the wrong water in my tank and only 1 quart of the good water collected in a bucket. My husband is worried about the work load all this waste water is causing our septic tank, so I shut it down. I really wanted to get my tank set up this weekend but I guess that's not going to happen now. I am not getting a 4 to 1 ratio. I'm beginning to think buying used is not the way to go. I'll try to get a picture of it posted today. It has a pressure gauge on it that doesn't seem to do anything. The other thing I was talking about looks like a orange caulk cue which is wired to the ele. line and water line?

mikenam · 06/22/2008, 09:23 AM

im on the same boat. My unit is producing ro/di water really slow and and waste water is filling up quick. I purchased mine used and thinking that a new membrane would help. Havn't had the time or money to replace it yet so ive been visiting the LFS to get my water. Try backflushing the membrane or getting higher water pressure.

GL

AZDesertRat · 06/22/2008, 10:48 AM

Two things have a big effect on RO production or GPD. Water pressure and water temperature.
Pressure needs to be a minimum of about 50 psi available at the membrane. A pressure gauge is standard equipment on most reef quality RO or RO/DI units. It should be placed after the prefilter and carbon block so you are reading any pressure drop across the filters and what is truly available to the membrane. Used prefilters and carbons may be plugged and causing a pressure reduction. I use two pressure gauges myself so I can see at a glance what the presure really is. One is placed before any filters so I read what my Utility is giving me and the second is after the filters so I can compare readings. If you only have one pressuer gauge, you can remove the prefilter and carbon block and reinstall the empty housings for a few seconds to compare readings to what they are with the filters installed. Only do this for a brief time as chlorine will damage a membrane quickly.
If delivery pressures are low you best bet is a booster pump such as the Aquatec 8800.

The other thing that affects output is water temperature. Membranes are designed to deliver their rated output at 77 degrees F water temperature. DO NOT try to blend or temper cold and hot to warm the water, this is a surefire method of melting a membrane. Remember being in the shower and someone flushes the stool or runs a hose outside? You got scalded! Thesame thing happens to a membrane, at such lows flows its about impossible to blend the water . Some have tried placing aquarium heaters in a bucket then looping the feed line of 1/4" tubing feeding the unit through the bucket but it is not very beneficial. If you do the math the BTUs required to heat one gallon of water 1 degree its astronomical and heaters do not keep up.

By "making water faster" I can only assume you are talking about a permeate pump. If so these only work if you have a pressure tank like in a drinking water system. They will not work open discharge or filling an aquarium or trash barrel as thye depend on the backpressure of the pressure tank to function.

For the other pieces you describe I have no idea without a picture or better explaination.

Aquarist007 · 06/22/2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AZDesertRat
Two things have a big effect on RO production or GPD. Water pressure and water temperature.
Pressure needs to be a minimum of about 50 psi available at the membrane. A pressure gauge is standard equipment on most reef quality RO or RO/DI units. It should be placed after the prefilter and carbon block so you are reading any pressure drop across the filters and what is truly available to the membrane. Used prefilters and carbons may be plugged and causing a pressure reduction. I use two pressure gauges myself so I can see at a glance what the presure really is. One is placed before any filters so I read what my Utility is giving me and the second is after the filters so I can compare readings. If you only have one pressuer gauge, you can remove the prefilter and carbon block and reinstall the empty housings for a few seconds to compare readings to what they are with the filters installed. Only do this for a brief time as chlorine will damage a membrane quickly.
If delivery pressures are low you best bet is a booster pump such as the Aquatec 8800.

The other thing that affects output is water temperature. Membranes are designed to deliver their rated output at 77 degrees F water temperature. DO NOT try to blend or temper cold and hot to warm the water, this is a surefire method of melting a membrane. Remember being in the shower and someone flushes the stool or runs a hose outside? You got scalded! Thesame thing happens to a membrane, at such lows flows its about impossible to blend the water . Some have tried placing aquarium heaters in a bucket then looping the feed line of 1/4" tubing feeding the unit through the bucket but it is not very beneficial. If you do the math the BTUs required to heat one gallon of water 1 degree its astronomical and heaters do not keep up.

By "making water faster" I can only assume you are talking about a permeate pump. If so these only work if you have a pressure tank like in a drinking water system. They will not work open discharge or filling an aquarium or trash barrel as thye depend on the backpressure of the pressure tank to function.

For the other pieces you describe I have no idea without a picture or better explaination.

If she is not getting a 4:1 ratio should she not be checking the restrictor. I my case I had a 9:1 or poor and discovered there wasn't even a restrictor in the line. Big difference once I installed one.

AZDesertRat · 06/22/2008, 11:30 AM

Yep, you're right.
In the waste line there should be a fatter plastic piece with a number stamped on it like 750mL or something. If it does not have that, disconnect the waste line from the membrane housing and look for a small piece of thin plastic about the size of a piece of spaghetti with a little flange on one end stuck inside the 1/4" tube. If you do not find either one, you may need to purchase a flow restrictor or even if you do it may not be the correct size.
Temporarily you can install a ball valve on the waste line and adjust it down to close to the 4:1, waste to good and see what happens.

06/21/2008, 05:24 PM	#1
redvicki Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 499	R/O water Okay this is my first time making R/O water and my system is used so no instructions. Which comes out faster the R/O water or the waste? My system does have the piece that makes it work faster...trying to fill my tank and want to be sure I'm filling it with the right water before I dump in my salt. Thanks.

06/21/2008, 05:45 PM	#4
Aquarist007 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hamilton, Canada Posts: 28,240 Blog Entries: 1	I agree with Sam but can you post a pic of the unit to be sure? __________________ I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock

06/21/2008, 05:49 PM	#5
Aquarist007 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hamilton, Canada Posts: 28,240 Blog Entries: 1	sorry AJ I wasn't aware you were posting while I was typing __________________ I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock

06/21/2008, 08:15 PM	#7
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	He should. Look at what he does for a living. Our resident water expert!! __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

06/21/2008, 05:42 PM	#2
kau_cinta_ku Moved On Join Date: May 2005 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,669	the ro water should be much slower then the waste water. you should get a 4:1 bad to good water.

06/21/2008, 05:45 PM	#3
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	Make sure you get a TDS meter as soon as possible. If you had one now you could test the output and find the TDS out of the RO should be approx. 98% less than the tap water and the waste flow would be 20-25% higher TDS than the tap water TDS since its concentrated. If the system is used, did you replace the filters or do you know what condition it is in?

06/21/2008, 07:41 PM	#6
Roy G. Biv Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,646	AJ, do you get an instant email notification when a post has "R.O." in it

06/22/2008, 07:39 AM	#10
redvicki Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 499	I give up...I filled had about 40 gallons of the wrong water in my tank and only 1 quart of the good water collected in a bucket. My husband is worried about the work load all this waste water is causing our septic tank, so I shut it down. I really wanted to get my tank set up this weekend but I guess that's not going to happen now. I am not getting a 4 to 1 ratio. I'm beginning to think buying used is not the way to go. I'll try to get a picture of it posted today. It has a pressure gauge on it that doesn't seem to do anything. The other thing I was talking about looks like a orange caulk cue which is wired to the ele. line and water line?

06/22/2008, 09:23 AM	#11
mikenam Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 248	im on the same boat. My unit is producing ro/di water really slow and and waste water is filling up quick. I purchased mine used and thinking that a new membrane would help. Havn't had the time or money to replace it yet so ive been visiting the LFS to get my water. Try backflushing the membrane or getting higher water pressure. GL

06/22/2008, 10:48 AM	#12
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	Two things have a big effect on RO production or GPD. Water pressure and water temperature. Pressure needs to be a minimum of about 50 psi available at the membrane. A pressure gauge is standard equipment on most reef quality RO or RO/DI units. It should be placed after the prefilter and carbon block so you are reading any pressure drop across the filters and what is truly available to the membrane. Used prefilters and carbons may be plugged and causing a pressure reduction. I use two pressure gauges myself so I can see at a glance what the presure really is. One is placed before any filters so I read what my Utility is giving me and the second is after the filters so I can compare readings. If you only have one pressuer gauge, you can remove the prefilter and carbon block and reinstall the empty housings for a few seconds to compare readings to what they are with the filters installed. Only do this for a brief time as chlorine will damage a membrane quickly. If delivery pressures are low you best bet is a booster pump such as the Aquatec 8800. The other thing that affects output is water temperature. Membranes are designed to deliver their rated output at 77 degrees F water temperature. DO NOT try to blend or temper cold and hot to warm the water, this is a surefire method of melting a membrane. Remember being in the shower and someone flushes the stool or runs a hose outside? You got scalded! Thesame thing happens to a membrane, at such lows flows its about impossible to blend the water . Some have tried placing aquarium heaters in a bucket then looping the feed line of 1/4" tubing feeding the unit through the bucket but it is not very beneficial. If you do the math the BTUs required to heat one gallon of water 1 degree its astronomical and heaters do not keep up. By "making water faster" I can only assume you are talking about a permeate pump. If so these only work if you have a pressure tank like in a drinking water system. They will not work open discharge or filling an aquarium or trash barrel as thye depend on the backpressure of the pressure tank to function. For the other pieces you describe I have no idea without a picture or better explaination.

06/22/2008, 11:30 AM	#14
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	Yep, you're right. In the waste line there should be a fatter plastic piece with a number stamped on it like 750mL or something. If it does not have that, disconnect the waste line from the membrane housing and look for a small piece of thin plastic about the size of a piece of spaghetti with a little flange on one end stuck inside the 1/4" tube. If you do not find either one, you may need to purchase a flow restrictor or even if you do it may not be the correct size. Temporarily you can install a ball valve on the waste line and adjust it down to close to the 4:1, waste to good and see what happens.