GFCI keeps tripping!

DAKOOP · 06/22/2008, 07:12 AM

Came downstairs to check on the tank before work this morning and my battery back up was in use. I reset the outlet and it shut off again. Unplugged stuff till I found the new pump on my Octopus skimmer causing this. Plugged that pump into a non GFCI and a Kill a Watt, it works fine and at a normal wattage. This pump is only a couple of months old, what could have happened to it?

kgross · 06/22/2008, 02:31 PM

In general a GFCI can trip on inductive loads. it might not be that anything is wrong with your pump, it could be that the GFCI has aged and is now more sensitive than it was.

Kim

DAKOOP · 06/22/2008, 02:35 PM

The outlets are only 6 months old. I did add another outlet a few days ago, could that have anything to do with it? Why only that pump?

kgross · 06/22/2008, 03:34 PM

Is the other outlet connected to this one? If it is, it could be whthat is causing the outlet to start triping now.

Why with only that pump. Could be that that pump takes a little longer for the magnetic field to build up(which limits current flow) so the gfci detects a difference in current. It is hard to say, GFCI's are not perfect, and they don't care if they false trip, what matters is that they trip when needed to save your life. I still say that GFCI's are very bad for aquariums, they trip to easy, but at the same time they are very good for you and can save your life, even though they end up allowing your tank to die.

Kim

DAKOOP · 06/22/2008, 03:59 PM

Is there a way to find out what went wrong? If its the pump or the newly added outlet?

kgross · 06/22/2008, 04:11 PM

You could try pluging the pump into a different GFCI outlet and see what happens

DAKOOP · 06/22/2008, 04:15 PM

It pops multiple GFCI's

DarG · 06/22/2008, 04:27 PM

If the only thing that causes the GFCI to trip is the Octopus pump then it isnt likely related to the new outlet but rather the pump itself. It may very well have an issue ... leaking current to ground. It's not usual but it is not uncommon in pumps. The GFCI senses any difference in amount of current that flows from hot to neutral and trips if the difference is over 4 or 5 millivolts (about that). If the same amount of current is not flowing from hot to neutral, then the difference is flowing to ground and that is what the GFCI protects us from. So, the GFCI is probably sensing a difference in that pump and tripping. It doesnt take much. It could be a very small leakage current, not near enough to do harm, the GFCI doesnt care. But the bottom line is that it shouldnt be present. I ran Octopus pumps before on an Octopus skimmer and never had my GFCI outlets trip.
They can get overly sensitive as they age or you could just have an overly sensitive one even if it ois fairly new so I would try the pump on a different one just to check and be sure. The Kill a Watt wont tell you anything about the leakage current.

Since this is not a commonly reported issue with Octopus pumps I would doible check on another GFCI outlet and if that trips too, I would get a hold of the dealer and get a new pump (hopefully it is not Marine Solutions).

The vast majority of Properly designed and functioning aquarium electrical equipment does not trip GFCI outlets for no reason. Either the outelt is tired or too sensitive or the equiupment has a fault. I would not discontinue the use of my GFCI outlets because one, cheap, asian made pump has an issue. There is just too much potential for electrical and electronic equipment opearted in and around water to injure or kill us. The GFCI can save your life. Its well worth the hassle of having to deal with exchanging the pump.

DarG · 06/22/2008, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAKOOP
It pops multiple GFCI's

Its the pump.

DAKOOP · 06/22/2008, 04:32 PM

It did come from Marine Solutions. Are the bad at warranty issues? I emailed them about it today.

DarG · 06/22/2008, 06:26 PM

They were useless to me. Didnt event reply to my emails.
There was a huge thread on this board several months ago. It was hit or miss. Some claimed they got service and others stated that they did not. It looked like they took care of some issues after being slammed on the board but taht was months ago so who knows. They may take great care of you and everyone else now for all I know. I should have left it alone, sorry. But dont sweat it, you may be well taken care of.

Worse comes to worse, the pumps are pretty inexpensive.

RokleM · 06/23/2008, 07:11 AM

You stated you added another outlet. Did you add another GFCI outlet to the same circuit inline, or did you add a standard outlet after the GFCI outlet (so if the GFCI outlet trips it shuts them both off)?

DAKOOP · 06/23/2008, 07:18 AM

GFCI after GFCI. All are GFCI.

RokleM · 06/23/2008, 07:29 AM

That's your problem. You only install one GFCI on a circuit, on the first location available you require the protection. Any locations after tied to that outlet that should be normal outlets and are protected by the GFCI outlet closer to the breaker. Multiple GFCI outlets inline cause strange results, including GFCI tripping for no apparent reason.

If you have a box you're splitting the circuit to go multiple physical directions directions (i.e. the outlets are not inline with each other), THEN having individual GFCI's installed is fine.

I'm no certified electrician, but I've read this over and over, and the GFCI system I installed works great and has tripped the few times there was an actual issue.

stgla · 05/17/2020, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RokleM

That's your problem. You only install one GFCI on a circuit, on the first location available you require the protection. Any locations after tied to that outlet that should be normal outlets and are protected by the GFCI outlet closer to the breaker. Multiple GFCI outlets inline cause strange results, including GFCI tripping for no apparent reason.

If you have a box you're splitting the circuit to go multiple physical directions directions (i.e. the outlets are not inline with each other), THEN having individual GFCI's installed is fine.

I'm no certified electrician, but I've read this over and over, and the GFCI system I installed works great and has tripped the few times there was an actual issue.

I'm replying to an old thread because there aren't any replies after this and I want to see if others think this is true. I can't imagine that using more than one GFCI outlet on the same circuit is a problem.

I need to know because I installed one in my fish room and found out there is another outlet that is not protected. That is, I trip the outlet that has the GFCI and all the others go dark including the overhead light fixture, but not the one of them. (I plugged a radio in and it kept playing). So I went to the breaker panel and determined they are all on the same circuit. I was going to just replace the regular outlet with a GFCI, which would technically mean two GFCI outlets on the same circuit.

Also, I have the same problem the OP mentioned. I have a pump (Mag 9.5) that trips every GFCI I try it on. No other device trips the same GFCIs. These are all newly and correctly installed, new equipment. So it's definitely the pump. I bought the pump used and it work when I first tried it. Now after a few weeks of working fine it suddenly trips every GFCI-protected outlet I plug into. If i plug into a non-protected outlet, nothing trips, but it doesn't work. Do I throw the pump in the trash?

oreo57 · 05/17/2020, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stgla

I'm replying to an old thread because there aren't any replies after this and I want to see if others think this is true. I can't imagine that using more than one GFCI outlet on the same circuit is a problem.

I need to know because I installed one in my fish room and found out there is another outlet that is not protected. That is, I trip the outlet that has the GFCI and all the others go dark including the overhead light fixture, but not the one of them. (I plugged a radio in and it kept playing). So I went to the breaker panel and determined they are all on the same circuit. I was going to just replace the regular outlet with a GFCI, which would technically mean two GFCI outlets on the same circuit.

Also, I have the same problem the OP mentioned. I have a pump (Mag 9.5) that trips every GFCI I try it on. No other device trips the same GFCIs. These are all newly and correctly installed, new equipment. So it's definitely the pump. I bought the pump used and it work when I first tried it. Now after a few weeks of working fine it suddenly trips every GFCI-protected outlet I plug into. If i plug into a non-protected outlet, nothing trips, but it doesn't work. Do I throw the pump in the trash?

Not being an electrician consider this more of a FYI..........

ONE GFCI unit will protect itself and all outlets downstream of it.
No need or any good in installing more than one in a series.

Quote:

I trip the outlet that has the GFCI and all the others go dark including the overhead light fixture, but not the one of them. So I went to the breaker panel and determined they are all on the same circuit.

Well it's either before the GFCI string or a parallel branch. Feel free to add a GFCI to it. Might want to see if its in series w/ the one (test trip after installed)

https://www.buildmyowncabin.com/elec...i-outlets.html
https://www.mycoffeepot.org/installi...in-series.html
As to the pump.. yea sounds trashed.......

Vinny Kreyling · 05/17/2020, 05:07 PM

Yes - in the trash.

06/22/2008, 07:12 AM	#1
DAKOOP Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Charles Posts: 310	GFCI keeps tripping! Came downstairs to check on the tank before work this morning and my battery back up was in use. I reset the outlet and it shut off again. Unplugged stuff till I found the new pump on my Octopus skimmer causing this. Plugged that pump into a non GFCI and a Kill a Watt, it works fine and at a normal wattage. This pump is only a couple of months old, what could have happened to it?

06/22/2008, 02:31 PM	#2
kgross Premium Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Nampa, ID Posts: 5,870	In general a GFCI can trip on inductive loads. it might not be that anything is wrong with your pump, it could be that the GFCI has aged and is now more sensitive than it was. Kim __________________ Proud Member of the Idaho Marine Aquarium Society America will only be the Land of the Free as long as it is the Home of the Brave. Current Tank Info: AGA 180gallon tank, VHO/MH lighting, DSB, calcium reactor, Also a 7 Gallon Nano softy tank, and a 32 gallon cube

06/22/2008, 03:34 PM	#4
kgross Premium Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Nampa, ID Posts: 5,870	Is the other outlet connected to this one? If it is, it could be whthat is causing the outlet to start triping now. Why with only that pump. Could be that that pump takes a little longer for the magnetic field to build up(which limits current flow) so the gfci detects a difference in current. It is hard to say, GFCI's are not perfect, and they don't care if they false trip, what matters is that they trip when needed to save your life. I still say that GFCI's are very bad for aquariums, they trip to easy, but at the same time they are very good for you and can save your life, even though they end up allowing your tank to die. Kim __________________ Proud Member of the Idaho Marine Aquarium Society America will only be the Land of the Free as long as it is the Home of the Brave. Current Tank Info: AGA 180gallon tank, VHO/MH lighting, DSB, calcium reactor, Also a 7 Gallon Nano softy tank, and a 32 gallon cube

06/22/2008, 04:11 PM	#6
kgross Premium Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Nampa, ID Posts: 5,870	You could try pluging the pump into a different GFCI outlet and see what happens __________________ Proud Member of the Idaho Marine Aquarium Society America will only be the Land of the Free as long as it is the Home of the Brave. Current Tank Info: AGA 180gallon tank, VHO/MH lighting, DSB, calcium reactor, Also a 7 Gallon Nano softy tank, and a 32 gallon cube

06/23/2008, 07:11 AM	#12
RokleM Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 9,687	You stated you added another outlet. Did you add another GFCI outlet to the same circuit inline, or did you add a standard outlet after the GFCI outlet (so if the GFCI outlet trips it shuts them both off)? __________________ -Eric-

06/22/2008, 02:35 PM	#3
DAKOOP Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Charles Posts: 310	The outlets are only 6 months old. I did add another outlet a few days ago, could that have anything to do with it? Why only that pump?

06/22/2008, 03:59 PM	#5
DAKOOP Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Charles Posts: 310	Is there a way to find out what went wrong? If its the pump or the newly added outlet?

06/22/2008, 04:15 PM	#7
DAKOOP Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Charles Posts: 310	It pops multiple GFCI's

06/22/2008, 04:27 PM	#8
DarG Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,515	If the only thing that causes the GFCI to trip is the Octopus pump then it isnt likely related to the new outlet but rather the pump itself. It may very well have an issue ... leaking current to ground. It's not usual but it is not uncommon in pumps. The GFCI senses any difference in amount of current that flows from hot to neutral and trips if the difference is over 4 or 5 millivolts (about that). If the same amount of current is not flowing from hot to neutral, then the difference is flowing to ground and that is what the GFCI protects us from. So, the GFCI is probably sensing a difference in that pump and tripping. It doesnt take much. It could be a very small leakage current, not near enough to do harm, the GFCI doesnt care. But the bottom line is that it shouldnt be present. I ran Octopus pumps before on an Octopus skimmer and never had my GFCI outlets trip. They can get overly sensitive as they age or you could just have an overly sensitive one even if it ois fairly new so I would try the pump on a different one just to check and be sure. The Kill a Watt wont tell you anything about the leakage current. Since this is not a commonly reported issue with Octopus pumps I would doible check on another GFCI outlet and if that trips too, I would get a hold of the dealer and get a new pump (hopefully it is not Marine Solutions). The vast majority of Properly designed and functioning aquarium electrical equipment does not trip GFCI outlets for no reason. Either the outelt is tired or too sensitive or the equiupment has a fault. I would not discontinue the use of my GFCI outlets because one, cheap, asian made pump has an issue. There is just too much potential for electrical and electronic equipment opearted in and around water to injure or kill us. The GFCI can save your life. Its well worth the hassle of having to deal with exchanging the pump.

06/22/2008, 04:32 PM	#10
DAKOOP Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Charles Posts: 310	It did come from Marine Solutions. Are the bad at warranty issues? I emailed them about it today.

06/22/2008, 06:26 PM	#11
DarG Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,515	They were useless to me. Didnt event reply to my emails. There was a huge thread on this board several months ago. It was hit or miss. Some claimed they got service and others stated that they did not. It looked like they took care of some issues after being slammed on the board but taht was months ago so who knows. They may take great care of you and everyone else now for all I know. I should have left it alone, sorry. But dont sweat it, you may be well taken care of. Worse comes to worse, the pumps are pretty inexpensive.

06/23/2008, 07:18 AM	#13
DAKOOP Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Charles Posts: 310	GFCI after GFCI. All are GFCI.

06/23/2008, 07:29 AM	#14
RokleM Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 9,687	That's your problem. You only install one GFCI on a circuit, on the first location available you require the protection. Any locations after tied to that outlet that should be normal outlets and are protected by the GFCI outlet closer to the breaker. Multiple GFCI outlets inline cause strange results, including GFCI tripping for no apparent reason. If you have a box you're splitting the circuit to go multiple physical directions directions (i.e. the outlets are not inline with each other), THEN having individual GFCI's installed is fine. I'm no certified electrician, but I've read this over and over, and the GFCI system I installed works great and has tripped the few times there was an actual issue. __________________ -Eric-

05/17/2020, 05:07 PM	#17
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	Yes - in the trash. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.