Frustration

[barrett.oliver]

Alright Ladies and Gents,

I've been having such a terrible time with the tank I have set up about 5-6 weeks ago. I'm losing the livestock that I put into it. I have tried a Clownfish and a I have also tried a Cleaner Shrimp. The fish ended up with the velvet on them. I'm not even sure what happened to the shrimp he just stopped moving(this was before the fish died). The water as far as I can tell couldn't be better. The ammonia is steady at 0, as are both the nitrite AND nitrate. pH holds at about 8.0 (give or take 0.5 each time I test it). I'm also changing the water with RO water every week (apprx. 15%-20%). As far as I knew this was the correct way to be doing things?? So I guess what I'm looking to figure out, if anyone know why the animals I've nemed are dying or is this something that is case sensitive? I've has some snails in the tank all this while and nothing has happened to any of them (that I can notice that is). I've read nothing about why this may or may not happen. So any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Barrett Oliver

[sassafrass]

Inverts need a very slow acclimation, one thing you didn't mention is your specific gravity ,what is it at?

[barrett.oliver]

Right sorry,

Its normally about 1.024-1.025...... I also spent about three hours with the invert acclimating. He was the first addition, so I spent the better part of the night getting everything right (or what I thought was right)

[stuccodude]

it takes time, i lost probly 300 in livestock and it took almost a year till my system is just crusing now.

[sassafrass]

Did you you test the acclimation water and your tank water to see if they matched (temp,spg and ph) ? just another way to assure yourself things are correct,
Lee

[barrett.oliver]

Should I be treating this velvety stuff or should I let the tank takes its course on this for the next couple week changing water frequently?

I guess I just had to high of hopes (not wanting to harm anything) for starting off yeah?

[barrett.oliver]

This is something I did not test. Obviously the longer acclimation wouldn't have any effect on this water change? should the LFS have good WP though?

[sassafrass]

It is always a good idea to quarantine all new livestock before introducing them to your display . You don't have to lose a lot of livestock, take your time picking it out observing it for awareness ,breathing regularly, make sure and see it eat,and if you can put it on hold at your LFS for a week or two .(no offense meant stuccodude)
Lee

[Playa-1]

Well a couple of things you mentioned jump out at me as being potential problems. Overall at first glance the numbers your are posting for the water parameters look ok. When you say that your ph is 8.0 and your getting a .5 swing in ph one way or the other, that is a bit extreme. This could indicate that your may have some aeration and circulation issues.

I suspect acclimation, Ph, Temp or Salinity swings with the shrimp.

IMO clownish are not a gr8 starter fish. They have a vicious disease named after them due to the fact that it's very common for these fish to arrive at your home infected with this disease.
As far as disease goes, you should be using a QT tank. When you notice it in a QT tank then you treat it in the QT tank or a hospital tank. That way you don't introduce a vicious disease into your Display tank. Once a disease such as clown fish disease (AKA Brookynella), ICH, or Velvet, to name a few, has been introduced into your tank, It can be a nightmare. These diseases can rapidly wipe out all of your fish. Many of which may not show signs of disease until it's too late to save them. The disease can also lay dormant waiting for your next fishy purchase. You will have to study and learn about how to eradicate such diseases from your tank.

I would be curious to know;
How you test your water?
Are you using a refractometer?
Have you personally calibrated your refractometer?
What makes you think the Clown Fish had Velvet?
How did you treat for Velvet?
Are you using a QT tank?
What livestock do you have in the tank?
What are you using for water circulation in the tank?

[barrett.oliver]

Sorry about the pH inaccuracy, its not that big of a jump (I beleive the measures go in either .1's or .2's) so this would be the extent of the flux. Didn't mean to exaggerate intentionally, just not thinking.
The water tests are done with a marine test tube kit (drips into tubes deally)
I am using a hydrometer that was new with the tank, so I haven't got a refractometer calibrated by me.
I'm likely misdiagnosing the fish with velvet because this is what the internet made me believe, and I wasn't sure how to treat the incase I was wrong about it.
I do not have a QT, obviously should have had one whether or not it was the first livestock or not,
and finally I've got about 760gph of circulation, almost 200 from my canister filter, and an additonal 600 from a powerhead.

[Playa-1]

All things considered I would let the tank sit for about 6 weeks without any fish in it. Hopefully that will eradicate any disease that may have been introduced into the tank. In the mean time get yourself a QT tank and a refractometer with calibration fluid.
Study up on fish diseases, QT and acclimation proceedures to make sure your not making a mistake in those areas. Then you should be ready to give it another shot. Start with an inexpensive hardy fish. Maybe a blue/green Chromis or a Cardinal and see how it does before moving forward.

How many fish did you loose?

[barrett.oliver]

To be honest, I only lost the ones stated above, just this shrimp, and the clownfish.

I appriciate that you can give me this advice. I have already began the studying process because of my discouragment.

Now I have to work on the fiance about getting another tank for the sick fish/new fish. She liked losing the fish about as much as I did. So I doubt it will be an issue.

Whats the difference between a refractometer, and a hydrometer? Don't they both read the salinity?

Thanks again!

[barrett.oliver]

Another quick question!

I forgot about the fact that I have a little bitty mushroom who started off about the size of a pencil eraser. The little fella is about the size of a dime now. Would something that effects the fish NOT effect the mushroom?

[shuguley]

Refractometers are more reliable than hydrometers, and are very easy to use. If you don't want to break the bank on one, Marinedepot has one for $39, you should also buy pinpoint salinity calibration fluid for about $5. That's what I bought and I am very happy with both.

[Playa-1]

Originally posted by barrett.oliver
To be honest, I only lost the ones stated above, just this shrimp, and the clownfish.

I appriciate that you can give me this advice. I have already began the studying process because of my discouragment.

Now I have to work on the fiance about getting another tank for the sick fish/new fish. She liked losing the fish about as much as I did. So I doubt it will be an issue.

Whats the difference between a refractometer, and a hydrometer? Don't they both read the salinity?

Thanks again!

I know what you mean. It really sux to loose a fish especially one that you've got named and have bonded with.

The refractometer is a much more accurate way to measure the salinity. You will usually spend about $45 on a descent refractometer and a few bucks on calibration fluid. So the differences is that one is much more accurate and it cost about $35 more

The QT doesn't have to be anything special. I bought a used 20gal acrylic tank off of ebay that came with a airstone and a light. It was a local pickup deal. Craigslist would be a good spot for something like that. All you need is a tank, sponge filter, and an appropriate heater. I think I've got about $60 tied up into the QT. You can break it down and clean it up between uses. The sponge filter can be seeded in your tank or sump for quick biological filter when you need to use the QT.

To answer your other question, The shrooms are much different then your fish. There are all kinds of fish diseases that could affect the fish and have no affect on the shrooms.

[barrett.oliver]

Two more excellent pieces of advice. Thanks for the first time here.

I guess for the price of the refractometer compared to the hydrometer its not that bad. I thought it would be a little more unforgiving in price(never really looked into them....just bought what I was told at the LFS).

That was another thing I was wondernig about.... The QT, why is it that you can take it down while its not in use? Wouldn't this cause the need to cycle it each time your getting a new addition? Or is it just as simple as the sponge filter?

Either way it is in the very near future for me, I've been throwing around the idea of making a very simple/basic 10 gallon'er of acrylic. Would this be an okay size where the tank I have now is only the 35g?? Or is this putting more stress on the livestock than the move already is causing? Thanks once again for all your help. I can't help but enjoy taking in more and more information each day.

Barrett Oliver

[jimbo78]

10g would be fine. i use one of the 10g kits you can get at walmart or petsupermaket for about 30 bucks. it comes with a HOB filter(hang on back)and a light. ill put the filter floss/bag/media in my sump for a couple days before i buy something new. then when i get something new i do a waterchange on my main tank and put about 7g from it into the 10g and the other 3g new water. get the filter out of my sump and put it in the HOB and its good to go. just add a heater and a piece of pvc (like a 3"elbow) so the fish has a place to hide sometimes if he wants

[Playa-1]

That was another thing I was wondernig about.... The QT, why is it that you can take it down while its not in use? Wouldn't this cause the need to cycle it each time your getting a new addition? Or is it just as simple as the sponge filter?

By putting the sponge part of the filter into your sump or tank to seed it, The necessary bacteria will populate it which should allow you to operate the small tank with a small bioload without an additional cycle. You will still need to keep an eye on your Ammonia, ph, and temp. Usually in a qt tank you have to do regular water changes to keep your water quality in order while you have livestock in there.