Blue Regal Tang Ich

mangelo · 07/27/2008, 01:08 PM

I have a new beautiful blue regal in my 75gal reef. He looks very good. I really don't see any white spots on him yet, but he is brushing against the rocks every now and then so I know it's a matter of time.

My QT will be up in a day or two.

What is the best Ich medicine? I am going to use a 10 gal tank, bio-wheel, no rock or any other substrate, and a powerhead.

I am also going to set the SG to 1.010 and the temp to 82.

Thanks.

padi200 · 07/27/2008, 01:22 PM

You could try some garlic to help his immune system.

padi200 · 07/27/2008, 01:25 PM

cooper safe is good, but of course he would need to be in a place where the copper could not hurt anything, like a QT-tank

abulgin · 07/27/2008, 01:28 PM

First, why didn't you QT this fish in the first place if (as you seem to) you know how prone they are to ich? Second, tangs rub against rocks--it doesn't mean it has ich--it means he has an itch. Either the fish will have white spots or it won't--no need to stress it out now by putting it in a shoebox and throwing chemicals in the water.

mangelo · 07/27/2008, 01:34 PM

Ok. I was hoping someone would say that.

Why didn't I QT him? Good question. How long should I have done that?

chineseknife · 07/27/2008, 01:39 PM

Best way to rid your fish/tank of ich is going the hyposalinity route. That is the only tried and true method that works almost every single time. Problem is, if Ich is present in your tank in one of its 3 life stages, one being unhatched cysts in the sand, then removing the fish will only treat the fish, not the tank. Those unhatched cysts will eventually break open and start the process all over again. The three stages are free swimming, unhatched cysts, and the ich you eventually see attached to your fish.
Good luck.

chineseknife · 07/27/2008, 01:41 PM

Oh and btw- Hypo route takes anywhere from 6-8 weeks, running the 6 week life cycle of crypto irritans, but also allows for a couple extra weeks, just to be sure. During this time you wuld lower the salinity gradually, over a week or so, to about 1.014. Go six weeks like this. Then bring it back up, over a week or so, gradually to 1.025.
Hypo treatment done.

padi200 · 07/27/2008, 02:09 PM

I know most people do not do it, but QT for 2-3 weeks helps a lot.

And I agree, the fish may just itch since they do that. On the other hand, if it is excessive, it may be an early sign of a problem.

Best thing is to watch very closely

padi200 · 07/27/2008, 02:12 PM

many peole swear by garlic, such as Kent Marine, Garlic Extreme. Since it is not a medication in the traditional sense, it is something to consider.

kau_cinta_ku · 07/27/2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chineseknife
Best way to rid your fish/tank of ich is going the hyposalinity route. That is the only tried and true method that works almost every single time.

actually hypo, copper, and tank transfer are all methods that work. all tried and tested.

chineseknife · 07/27/2008, 02:24 PM

Agreed with Hypo and copper. But simply transferring to another tank with out hypo or copper doesn't do much except infect the new tank if the fish physically is infected.
Garlic helps boost the immune system, not treat the ich itself.

abulgin · 07/27/2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mangelo
Ok. I was hoping someone would say that.

Why didn't I QT him? Good question. How long should I have done that?

With some (very) minor exceptions, you should quarantine every single fish you ever buy. To be effective, a QT period should be at least 4 weeks and preferably 6 weeks. A QT period allows your fish to reconstitute after being shipped/held and, more importantly, allows you to observe for disease. Anything less than 4 weeks is worthless. It can take this long for crypt to manifest.

Before you throw the fish in QT, you should always give it a 5-7 minute pH adjusted freshwater (tap) dip. I always add formalin to my dips, but that's up to you. I also give the same bath before I move from QT to display just to be sure.

kau_cinta_ku · 07/27/2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chineseknife
Agreed with Hypo and copper. But simply transferring to another tank with out hypo or copper doesn't do much except infect the new tank if the fish physically is infected.
Garlic helps boost the immune system, not treat the ich itself.

there is alot more to it than that. I am not sure on all the details but it does work and work.

Freed · 07/27/2008, 04:26 PM

Hypo should be performed at 1.009-1.010 any higher and the ich could very possibly live. Lower, the fish could die. Also, scratching against rocks over and over is usually a sure sign of the ich infesting the gills and hurting the fish.

abulgin · 07/27/2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chineseknife
Agreed with Hypo and copper. But simply transferring to another tank with out hypo or copper doesn't do much except infect the new tank if the fish physically is infected.
Garlic helps boost the immune system, not treat the ich itself.

No has proven squat about garlic. Using it can't hurt, but it's kind of like suggesting you get your fish to wear a Q-Ray magnetic bracelet.

chineseknife · 07/27/2008, 04:39 PM

I was saying that garlic helps boost the immune system, which helps fight off immuno-defficiency issues.
As a medication definitely not.
As a supplement to regular feeding, yes.
Garlic does have some properties that have positive effects on a fishes health, like it or not.
No, it won't cure anything, nor have I claimed that it does.

Freed · 07/27/2008, 04:42 PM

From what I've read on the documented proven use of tank transfer method to kill ich, the fish is transferred after a few days to each new tank, not allowing the ich cysts to hatch and then reattach to the fish in that period of time. Hypo and/or copper are not necessary using this method.

mangelo · 07/27/2008, 05:28 PM

The reason I didn't put him in the QT to begin with is because how easily they are stressed. He is going very well so far.

Let's say the QT is fresh. What good does it do to put the fish in there for a week or two and then have to acclimate him again to the main tank?

Another question...if I had treated another fish for ich do I need to empty the tank before I treat another?

I ordered Rid Ich to have on hand. Is this any good?

Thanks guy.s

Freed · 07/27/2008, 05:31 PM

Why do you say one to two weeks? Hypo or any QT for that matter should be for no less than 4-6 weeks.

abulgin · 07/27/2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Freed
From what I've read on the documented proven use of tank transfer method to kill ich, the fish is transferred after a few days to each new tank, not allowing the ich cysts to hatch and then reattach to the fish in that period of time. Hypo and/or copper are not necessary using this method.

If you have 3 tanks, a lot of space, and a lot of extra salt, this may be an option. For most people, one QT and the most effective and quickest treatment is the order of the day.

abulgin · 07/27/2008, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mangelo
The reason I didn't put him in the QT to begin with is because how easily they are stressed. He is going very well so far.

Let's say the QT is fresh. What good does it do to put the fish in there for a week or two and then have to acclimate him again to the main tank?

Another question...if I had treated another fish for ich do I need to empty the tank before I treat another?

I ordered Rid Ich to have on hand. Is this any good?

Thanks guy.s

All of this will be answered in much greater detail by Conscientious Marine Aquarist (new edition out June 2008) by Robert Fenner. Buy it and read.

Freed · 07/27/2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chineseknife
Agreed with Hypo and copper. But simply transferring to another tank with out hypo or copper doesn't do much except infect the new tank if the fish physically is infected.
Garlic helps boost the immune system, not treat the ich itself.

I was adding to this not saying I have or will use it.

tmz · 07/27/2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chineseknife
Best way to rid your fish/tank of ich is going the hyposalinity route. That is the only tried and true method that works almost every single time. Problem is, if Ich is present in your tank in one of its 3 life stages, one being unhatched cysts in the sand, then removing the fish will only treat the fish, not the tank. Those unhatched cysts will eventually break open and start the process all over again. The three stages are free swimming, unhatched cysts, and the ich you eventually see attached to your fish.
Good luck.

While hyposalinity is a proven treatment, there are resistant strains. It is not,however the only tried and true treatment. Copper woks all the time if you dose it properly. Tank transfer is another proven method.

As for quarantine: New specimens should be qtd for 4 weeks to ensure any disease has time to show.If they need treatment,it's another 4 weeks symptom free. Many use prophylactic dips and some even treat prohphylacticaly.

If your Regal Tang has crytocaryon irritans(ich) your entire tank will be infested and should be left fishless for at least 6 weeks(some encysted parasites ahave survived up to 72 days).

If you do a web search for crytocaryon irritans (marine ich) you will find a lot of information about this protozoan and it,s life cycle and treaatment.

tmz · 07/27/2008, 08:06 PM

Tank tranfer works quite well and is quciker. With 2 or 3 small tanks 3 to 4 transfers ,3 days apart will get it. I've done it and find it easier than hypo salinity or copper and it is probably less stressful than messing with the fish's body chemistry as is the case with hypo and copper. As for treatment I like cupramine if not dong a transfer. I also like formalin dips prophylacticaly or as a pre treatment for an infested fish.

Garlic does no harm tha we are yet aware of but won't cure anything. It likely won't boost immunity either. btw 82% of fish exposed to an infestation which survive develop a degree of immunity anyway.

abulgin · 07/27/2008, 08:13 PM

good info Tom. I still haven't seen pictures of a white spot covered tang--and we're all posting about what this guy might do if his fish turns out to have more than a mosquito bite.

07/27/2008, 01:08 PM	#1
mangelo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 480	Blue Regal Tang Ich I have a new beautiful blue regal in my 75gal reef. He looks very good. I really don't see any white spots on him yet, but he is brushing against the rocks every now and then so I know it's a matter of time. My QT will be up in a day or two. What is the best Ich medicine? I am going to use a 10 gal tank, bio-wheel, no rock or any other substrate, and a powerhead. I am also going to set the SG to 1.010 and the temp to 82. Thanks. Last edited by mangelo; 07/27/2008 at 01:17 PM.

07/27/2008, 01:39 PM	#6
chineseknife Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Charlotte, N.C. Posts: 505	Best way to rid your fish/tank of ich is going the hyposalinity route. That is the only tried and true method that works almost every single time. Problem is, if Ich is present in your tank in one of its 3 life stages, one being unhatched cysts in the sand, then removing the fish will only treat the fish, not the tank. Those unhatched cysts will eventually break open and start the process all over again. The three stages are free swimming, unhatched cysts, and the ich you eventually see attached to your fish. Good luck. __________________ What's a water change? Current Tank Info: 90g Mixed Reef

07/27/2008, 01:41 PM	#7
chineseknife Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Charlotte, N.C. Posts: 505	Oh and btw- Hypo route takes anywhere from 6-8 weeks, running the 6 week life cycle of crypto irritans, but also allows for a couple extra weeks, just to be sure. During this time you wuld lower the salinity gradually, over a week or so, to about 1.014. Go six weeks like this. Then bring it back up, over a week or so, gradually to 1.025. Hypo treatment done. __________________ What's a water change? Current Tank Info: 90g Mixed Reef

07/27/2008, 02:24 PM	#11
chineseknife Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Charlotte, N.C. Posts: 505	Agreed with Hypo and copper. But simply transferring to another tank with out hypo or copper doesn't do much except infect the new tank if the fish physically is infected. Garlic helps boost the immune system, not treat the ich itself. __________________ What's a water change? Current Tank Info: 90g Mixed Reef

07/27/2008, 04:26 PM	#14
Freed It's what it's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 41° 2' 45" N 85° 8' 43" W Posts: 7,579	Hypo should be performed at 1.009-1.010 any higher and the ich could very possibly live. Lower, the fish could die. Also, scratching against rocks over and over is usually a sure sign of the ich infesting the gills and hurting the fish. __________________ Freed Current Tank Info: 180gal(1120 watts of MH/VHO light), 60gal "sump", Deltec 601 calcium reactor, Euro Reef CS8-3+ skimmer, 20 gallon QT

07/27/2008, 01:22 PM	#2
padi200 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: LA, CA Posts: 529	You could try some garlic to help his immune system.

07/27/2008, 01:25 PM	#3
padi200 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: LA, CA Posts: 529	cooper safe is good, but of course he would need to be in a place where the copper could not hurt anything, like a QT-tank

07/27/2008, 01:28 PM	#4
abulgin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,664	First, why didn't you QT this fish in the first place if (as you seem to) you know how prone they are to ich? Second, tangs rub against rocks--it doesn't mean it has ich--it means he has an itch. Either the fish will have white spots or it won't--no need to stress it out now by putting it in a shoebox and throwing chemicals in the water.

07/27/2008, 01:34 PM	#5
mangelo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 480	Ok. I was hoping someone would say that. Why didn't I QT him? Good question. How long should I have done that?

07/27/2008, 02:09 PM	#8
padi200 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: LA, CA Posts: 529	I know most people do not do it, but QT for 2-3 weeks helps a lot. And I agree, the fish may just itch since they do that. On the other hand, if it is excessive, it may be an early sign of a problem. Best thing is to watch very closely

07/27/2008, 02:12 PM	#9
padi200 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: LA, CA Posts: 529	many peole swear by garlic, such as Kent Marine, Garlic Extreme. Since it is not a medication in the traditional sense, it is something to consider.

07/27/2008, 04:39 PM	#16
chineseknife Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Charlotte, N.C. Posts: 505	I was saying that garlic helps boost the immune system, which helps fight off immuno-defficiency issues. As a medication definitely not. As a supplement to regular feeding, yes. Garlic does have some properties that have positive effects on a fishes health, like it or not. No, it won't cure anything, nor have I claimed that it does. __________________ What's a water change? Current Tank Info: 90g Mixed Reef

07/27/2008, 04:42 PM	#17
Freed It's what it's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 41° 2' 45" N 85° 8' 43" W Posts: 7,579	From what I've read on the documented proven use of tank transfer method to kill ich, the fish is transferred after a few days to each new tank, not allowing the ich cysts to hatch and then reattach to the fish in that period of time. Hypo and/or copper are not necessary using this method. __________________ Freed Current Tank Info: 180gal(1120 watts of MH/VHO light), 60gal "sump", Deltec 601 calcium reactor, Euro Reef CS8-3+ skimmer, 20 gallon QT

07/27/2008, 05:28 PM	#18
mangelo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 480	The reason I didn't put him in the QT to begin with is because how easily they are stressed. He is going very well so far. Let's say the QT is fresh. What good does it do to put the fish in there for a week or two and then have to acclimate him again to the main tank? Another question...if I had treated another fish for ich do I need to empty the tank before I treat another? I ordered Rid Ich to have on hand. Is this any good? Thanks guy.s

07/27/2008, 05:31 PM	#19
Freed It's what it's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 41° 2' 45" N 85° 8' 43" W Posts: 7,579	Why do you say one to two weeks? Hypo or any QT for that matter should be for no less than 4-6 weeks. __________________ Freed Current Tank Info: 180gal(1120 watts of MH/VHO light), 60gal "sump", Deltec 601 calcium reactor, Euro Reef CS8-3+ skimmer, 20 gallon QT

07/27/2008, 08:06 PM	#24
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	Tank tranfer works quite well and is quciker. With 2 or 3 small tanks 3 to 4 transfers ,3 days apart will get it. I've done it and find it easier than hypo salinity or copper and it is probably less stressful than messing with the fish's body chemistry as is the case with hypo and copper. As for treatment I like cupramine if not dong a transfer. I also like formalin dips prophylacticaly or as a pre treatment for an infested fish. Garlic does no harm tha we are yet aware of but won't cure anything. It likely won't boost immunity either. btw 82% of fish exposed to an infestation which survive develop a degree of immunity anyway. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

07/27/2008, 08:13 PM	#25
abulgin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,664	good info Tom. I still haven't seen pictures of a white spot covered tang--and we're all posting about what this guy might do if his fish turns out to have more than a mosquito bite.