Sump Design issue

Lynden-Jeff · 08/17/2008, 04:33 PM

Hi,

This is a two part question I need help with. I built this sump to reduce micro bubbles which it hasent done. First some info, section 1 is return, section 2 is refugium and section 3 is intake. My first question is, the baffle between 1 and 2 is siliconed in but it is not water proof. Im going to use a maxijet with a phosban reactor to feed the refugium, am I going to have issues with 1 and 2 trying to equalize, or will it be alright? The leak is fairly minor. My second question is im still getting microbubbles, bad, from what I belive is the water pouring in from the baffles, ive tried a 180 micro filter sock over the drain from the overflow but it does not seem to do anything except make bubbles. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Jeff

P.S My nitrates are very high, I got this tank for free from a customer and had to move it, he used well water, so the water is not of the best quality right now, heard it can help micro bubbles stay formed.

qfrisco · 08/17/2008, 04:56 PM

Good design - my sump/refugium is the same setup. I stole the idea from melevsreef.com. :-)

You shouldn't have any issues with 1 and 2 trying to equalize. The only thing you need to watch for is if the flow into the refugium is too fast, the water overflowing into the return section might cause microbubbles in itself, especially if the water level in the return section is too low. I have a note below about raising the water level in the return section to help avoid this.

I also think your leaks are very minor, and nothing to worry about.

About your microbubble - one thing to remember - the principle behind a bubble trap is to slow down the flow of the water so any microbubbles have a chance to rise and pop. If the water flow is too fast, the microbubbles will simply go along for the ride and end up in your return section.

With the first and third baffles in your bubble trap being so short, you're not able to slow down the flow by much. Making those baffles a little taller - maybe an inch shorter than your middle baffle will help.

I don't know if your diagram is to scale, but the space between the baffles makes a big difference as well. If they are too close to each other, the flow won't slow down either. The rule of thumb I've seen is 1 to 1-1/2" space between the baffles. I would recommend spacing closer to the 1-1/2" mark.

Another consideration is the distance the water has to fall from the bubble trap into the return section. If you raise the baffle height as I suggested, this will make the water fall a higher distance, which itself could cause microbubbles. You could set your return section up so it keeps a higher water level so the water doesn't fall from too high. I've seen some setups where the water level in the return is higher than the last baffle in the bubble trap, but lower than the middle baffle. This way, there's no water falling at all.

Do you have an auto-topoff? If so, just setup your float switch so it is higher up in the return section.

Having said all this, I followed all the above in my sump/refugium, but I was still getting microbubbles. :-/ I eventually made another bubble trap out of PVC and landscaping drain pipe that my intake pours directly into.

Here's a pic of the additional bubble trap:

Let me know if you need more details. This has worked amazingly, and I was able to get rid of my filter sock. It was too much of a pain to replace every 3-4 days.

Good luck!

Lynden-Jeff · 08/17/2008, 05:56 PM

Thanks for the post. I have raised the water level in the return section, and it has helped. I also throttled the pump down alot, its a QO4000 HH and 800 GPH was way to much, prob around 4 now (90 gallon tank). I just noticed a MAJOR amount of micro bubbles are coming out of skimmer, like HUGE. How do I limit these? I know nothing about euroreefs. As you can see its also the older style.

Thanks
Jeff

08/17/2008, 04:33 PM	#1
Lynden-Jeff Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southern Ontario Posts: 27	Sump Design issue Hi, This is a two part question I need help with. I built this sump to reduce micro bubbles which it hasent done. First some info, section 1 is return, section 2 is refugium and section 3 is intake. My first question is, the baffle between 1 and 2 is siliconed in but it is not water proof. Im going to use a maxijet with a phosban reactor to feed the refugium, am I going to have issues with 1 and 2 trying to equalize, or will it be alright? The leak is fairly minor. My second question is im still getting microbubbles, bad, from what I belive is the water pouring in from the baffles, ive tried a 180 micro filter sock over the drain from the overflow but it does not seem to do anything except make bubbles. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Jeff P.S My nitrates are very high, I got this tank for free from a customer and had to move it, he used well water, so the water is not of the best quality right now, heard it can help micro bubbles stay formed. Last edited by Lynden-Jeff; 08/17/2008 at 04:50 PM.

08/17/2008, 04:56 PM	#2
qfrisco Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Area Posts: 1,389	Good design - my sump/refugium is the same setup. I stole the idea from melevsreef.com. :-) You shouldn't have any issues with 1 and 2 trying to equalize. The only thing you need to watch for is if the flow into the refugium is too fast, the water overflowing into the return section might cause microbubbles in itself, especially if the water level in the return section is too low. I have a note below about raising the water level in the return section to help avoid this. I also think your leaks are very minor, and nothing to worry about. About your microbubble - one thing to remember - the principle behind a bubble trap is to slow down the flow of the water so any microbubbles have a chance to rise and pop. If the water flow is too fast, the microbubbles will simply go along for the ride and end up in your return section. With the first and third baffles in your bubble trap being so short, you're not able to slow down the flow by much. Making those baffles a little taller - maybe an inch shorter than your middle baffle will help. I don't know if your diagram is to scale, but the space between the baffles makes a big difference as well. If they are too close to each other, the flow won't slow down either. The rule of thumb I've seen is 1 to 1-1/2" space between the baffles. I would recommend spacing closer to the 1-1/2" mark. Another consideration is the distance the water has to fall from the bubble trap into the return section. If you raise the baffle height as I suggested, this will make the water fall a higher distance, which itself could cause microbubbles. You could set your return section up so it keeps a higher water level so the water doesn't fall from too high. I've seen some setups where the water level in the return is higher than the last baffle in the bubble trap, but lower than the middle baffle. This way, there's no water falling at all. Do you have an auto-topoff? If so, just setup your float switch so it is higher up in the return section. Having said all this, I followed all the above in my sump/refugium, but I was still getting microbubbles. :-/ I eventually made another bubble trap out of PVC and landscaping drain pipe that my intake pours directly into. Here's a pic of the additional bubble trap: Let me know if you need more details. This has worked amazingly, and I was able to get rid of my filter sock. It was too much of a pain to replace every 3-4 days. Good luck!

08/17/2008, 05:56 PM	#3
Lynden-Jeff Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southern Ontario Posts: 27	Thanks for the post. I have raised the water level in the return section, and it has helped. I also throttled the pump down alot, its a QO4000 HH and 800 GPH was way to much, prob around 4 now (90 gallon tank). I just noticed a MAJOR amount of micro bubbles are coming out of skimmer, like HUGE. How do I limit these? I know nothing about euroreefs. As you can see its also the older style. Thanks Jeff