setup questions

[wizzin]

I'm hoping the community can help me out here. The great thing about the internet is all the information on setting up a reef tank. The bad thing is that there is so much information about setting up a reef tank that it's hard to digest what's right/wrong.

I've always had better luck with forums.

So here it goes. I'm going to explain what I have first, and then what I'd like to have following. This will be my first attempt at saltwater, though I've been keeping and breeding FW fish for many years and currently maintain around 1000 gallons of fw tanks in my home.

I have a 75 gallon that I'm having drilled for overflows. I have heaters of varying wattage, lights of varying temperatures etc and a fluval 405. I know a sump/refugium is the way to go, and I had planned on using a 30 gallon tank I have laying around as the basis for the sump. I know I'll need a protein skimmer and some testing equipment for SW.

What I'd like to know is what equipment is necessary and what is not. I've been looking for a nice diagram to show the "flow" of water through a typical 75 gallon setup.

What I'm aiming for. I want to do a LR setup and have some anemones but beyond that, I'm not very interested in all the other coral types. Flame away, but most of the corals just look like fungus to me. It's primarily about the fish for me, but I don't want to do a fish only tank. I'd like it to be more natural than a FO, but don't want to go all the way with corals etc, so lighting shouldn't be too big of an issue. The fish I want are:

pair of clown fish
a purple firefish
a mandarin fish
a copperband butterfly fish
maybe a banggai cardinal
1 or 2 cleaner shrimp

That's it for the fish. 6 fish for a 75 sounds reasonable to me? Are they all compatible?

I'm a long way from starting this as I want to try to gather as much info as possible, and find out what hardware is essential before buying.

any input at all is greatly appreciated!

[crvz]

The copperband butterfly and mandarin are both very challenging, and I would not recommend them both in a tank of that size. There would be a competition of food, and you'd be better off with only one of those. And I'd pick the mandarin, as copperbands are notoriously hard to acclimate to captivity.

Can you explain more how you're having the 75 drilled? Is it the floor being drilled so you can add overflow boxes?

Also, if you think most corals look like fungus, I'd say you've not seen the variety of corals available in the hobby. Regardless, if you want anemones, they need rather strong lights themselves, so don't assume you've gotten rid of the lighting requirements just because you're ruling out coral.

Good luck with the setup!

[stingythingy45]

To Reef Central

If you're just planning a FOWLR(fish only with live rock) I wouldn't spend too much on lights.Even if it's just a few corals here and there.A nice set of PC or a 4 bulb T5 would be fine for lighting.
Also,this is JME,but I wouln't even consider trying to run a tank without a good quality skimmer.
Now onto your fish list:

pair of clown fish-good choice
a purple firefish-good choice
a mandarin fish-this shouldn't really be tried until you have some experience and you will DEFINITELY need a refugium with a healthy pod population.
a copperband butterfly fish-Stay away from this fish.They should be listed as a advanced to expert hobbyest fish,definitely not for the novice.
maybe a banggai cardinal-good choice,even go for a mated pair.
1 or 2 cleaner shrimp-excellent creature for your aquarium.

Look into some of the dwarf angels,they can add some nice color to your tank.

Good luck!

[rogergolf66]

well it has been said but yes the Lighting requirments for and anemony are very intense also so you will need the lighting.

I second that you just haven't seen very nice corals before.

The manderine needs about 100lbs of live rock that has been established for a year before adding him.

Flow will depending on what you end up stocking. yes I would recommend a sump even if it is just a rubbermade container under the tank.

Well for equipment must haves

Live rock for biological filtration
some sort of machanical filtration (filter sock, flose)
Good Skimmer (the cheep ones don't work they are a waist of money)
Return pump 3-5 times turn over to the sump
powerheads min. of 10 times turn over of display water. (sepertat from return pump)
Light metal halide X2 min or 150Watts if going with anemony
fan/ chiller to control heat
heater to control cold

Nice extras to have

Controller!!!!!
timers
dedicated power to tank
UV
Auto Waterchange setup
Auto top of unit (replenish evaporated water automaticly)

[wizzin]

thanks for the responses! I was going to have the tank drilled on the back pane of glass. I haven't taken it in yet, and was just setting up a day to take it in.

I was just looking at overflow boxes though, and after the comment on a skimmer, I'm wondering if it would be better to use an overflow/skimmer box?

Thanks for the info on the fish. Scratch the butterfly and mandarin until I get good at this stuff.

I was also looking at sumps on Dr foster smith. Do you think i would be better off buying a sump than modifying a 30 gallon to serve that purpose?

It's somewhat intimidating trying to figure out what equipment and what setup to start out with. I simply have a brand new 75 sitting empty and a desire to have some SW fish, so I'm just trying to figure out how to start.

I'm in the process of reading a bunch of articles, but a lot of them deal with reef ready tanks. I'd rather not buy a reef ready tank if I can make the 75 I have work. Does anyone have any pointers to articles about setting up a non drilled tank like this?

Phil

[rogergolf66]

Here are a few of my algea looking coral in my tank

Superman Montipora

Tri color acro

bali green slimmer

pokerstar montipora

Pink tip orange digi and denna coral

Green Birdsnest

[rogergolf66]

Ok well you don't need a reef ready tank. I don't like them because they tank up to much room in the display. I have a non drilled tank.

just plumb the overflow into a filter sock that sits in the sump the put a submersibal pump in the sump and plumb it up to the the display on the back of the tank. also three chambers is a good modded tank for a sump. I would made your own check the DIY forum on RC you will find some great sumps.

When you build it you need to make one chamber that dosn't change water level that is for the skimmer then one champer for the filter sock and another for the return pump. if you want you can build a bubble trap in also to remove any micro bubbles from getting back into the display

Roger

[wizzin]

NICE! I admit, while I've been looking for a while, I probably haven't even touched the surface of the depths of corals. There are some that I can appreciate. I guess a safe assumption would be that if I started out with proper lighting, it would pretty much allow me to keep whatever I end up interested in.

I'm an energy efficiency nut, so in terms of lighting, would I be correct to assume that a t5 unit w/ around 4 to 8 WPG would be sufficient?

[SharkBait_Mtl]

Originally posted by wizzin
thanks for the responses! I was going to have the tank drilled on the back pane of glass. I haven't taken it in yet, and was just setting up a day to take it in.

I was just looking at overflow boxes though, and after the comment on a skimmer, I'm wondering if it would be better to use an overflow/skimmer box?

Thanks for the info on the fish. Scratch the butterfly and mandarin until I get good at this stuff.

I was also looking at sumps on Dr foster smith. Do you think i would be better off buying a sump than modifying a 30 gallon to serve that purpose?

It's somewhat intimidating trying to figure out what equipment and what setup to start out with. I simply have a brand new 75 sitting empty and a desire to have some SW fish, so I'm just trying to figure out how to start.

I'm in the process of reading a bunch of articles, but a lot of them deal with reef ready tanks. I'd rather not buy a reef ready tank if I can make the 75 I have work. Does anyone have any pointers to articles about setting up a non drilled tank like this?

Phil

I have heard that overflow/skimmer boxes are inefficient in skimming... get a dedicated skimmer and a good one... like it was stated before cheap ones are not worth the box they come in...

I had a mandarin in an established tank and it was competing for food with my wrasse.... eventually it starved and unfortunatly died the night before I moved the tank. IMO this fish I would say is for experts only..

as for the sump... why buy when u can DIY... sumps are very easy to build... just silicone a couple of baffles in your 30 and it is done... u can get fancy if u want and add an extra baffle in the other end so that way u have a refuge...



from what I have heard it is always better to have a drilled tank... HOB overflows always have a chance of flooding.

never stop reading.... there is always something new to learn about SW.

and welcome to SW fishkeeping!

[wizzin]

I guess I need to sort out the tank first. I can't seem to get a consensus on the drilled vs non drilled w/ overflow piece. I'm actually going to a garage sale today at 1 and they guy has a TON of SW gear, and a 75 gal. If it's drilled w/ overflow for cheap I may just get it. I can always put the current 75 to use in the FW setup.

[rogergolf66]

Originally posted by wizzin
I guess I need to sort out the tank first. I can't seem to get a consensus on the drilled vs non drilled w/ overflow piece. I'm actually going to a garage sale today at 1 and they guy has a TON of SW gear, and a 75 gal. If it's drilled w/ overflow for cheap I may just get it. I can always put the current 75 to use in the FW setup.

ok Research cali style overflow that will be my next setup and I think the best of both worlds.

as far as T5 4-8W should be plenty. I run 6W per gallon of MH lighting

[wizzin]

I've been looking at the overflow boxes. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with them to be honest. Never have been. I understand their operation, just nervous that in case of a break in the siphon my floor will get wet. Could I install a float switch in the sump so that if the water level in the sump drops below a determined level, indicating that there is a blockage or problem with the overflow/siphon the return pump shuts off?

Here's what I'm currently trying to wrap my brain around. I understand that live rock and sand act as the bio filter in a FOWLR tank or reef for that matter. I also get the protein skimmer part. Aside from the skimmer and growing food type critters, what exactly is the sump for?

I guess I'm asking if there is a method of setting up an FOWLR without a sump, but still incorporating a skimmer? Or are there other purposes for a sump that I haven't learned about yet? I've seen some fuges that hang on the back and some skimmers too. Are they all crap?

[rogergolf66]

the calif. syled dosn't use the u-tubs. there is no syphone to break

[wizzin]

so that's the weir style made out of 100% acrylic and the venturi tube on top? Are they reliable? Anyone point me to a good one?

[wizzin]

OK, so I've been thinking about this some more. I have (2) 50 gallon breeders that I have on a rack that are drilled in the bottom already. I'm downsizing my FW breeding operations anyway, so I'm thinking about putting one of the 50's to use as my first SW tank.

I really like the footprint of the 50 breeder and since it's already got a standpipe I think it might be a better candidate for SW experimentation. My only concern with it is that the standpipe is only a 1 1/4" pvc. Do you guys think I'll get enough flow through that standpipe for SW turn over?

Speaking of turnover, what kind of turnover am I looking at for a 50 gal? I was going to use a 20 gal for the sump.

In general, is a 50 gallon too small for a first time reefer? I've read that it's easier to get a stable environment with a larger tank. Would a 50 fall within the lower limits of a larger tank?

Thanks!

[fivesmallworlds]

50 would be fine, but I think you'll kick yourself later on for not going bigger when you had the chance... I can give you some pointers on setting up the 75 as that's what I am running right now.

Definitely drill the tank and put in bulkheads and an overflow box, do not use the hang on style overflow boxes! They all eventually fail at some point and you're left with a watery mess all over your floor.

The 30g tank will work GREAT for a sump/refugium. Not worth spending the extra $$$ on a pre-built sump that you'll end up modifying anyway. Put a couple baffles in the 30g to seperate the refugium|Skimmer|Return. Even if you end up just using the 50g, the 30g sump idea would be better than the 20g. Dilution is the solution....

I use an OceanRunner 2500 as my return pump. Gives me about 550-600 gph flow after 4 ft of head. I supplement that with a maxi1200 (modified) and a Koralia 2 and 3.

T5's are going to be your best option, but for your plans, a 2 bulb set would be MORE than enough light. Watts per gallon is no longer used as a term for measuring light as watts are a measure of electricity input, not light output. There really isn't much of a cost difference between the 36" T5's and the 48" T5's, so that may be another factor to consider when deciding which tank to use. I have a 4 bulb setup on my 75g but only 2 bulbs running at the moment and my SPS is still growing and coloring up nicely.

As for the skimmer, I did quite a bit of research when I was setting up my system as well and I ended up with an Octopus NW200 skimmer. Set me back about $200, but that's CHEAP compared to most of the other options. The MSX line of skimmers are great as well.

I wouldn't bother with the Fluval, but that's just me...

Hope that Helps

Colin

[cdness]

gl*******s.com has a nice overflow/bulkhead/bit kit that has everything you need to drill the tank yourself. It isn't as hard as it looks... you will sleep better by drilling it ...