please help with siphon break

lifeform · 09/21/2008, 07:10 PM

Hi, I have a 120gallon reef tank with a center overflow and four return lines which are connected to four bulkheads. Two of the return line bulkheads are mounted on the overflow box and the other two are on the back of the tank on each end. I have loc-lines connected to each bulkhead in the tank. I have shutoff the power and watched my sump/refugium almost overflow, how can I prevent the flood if the power shutoff and Im not home? I have two Quietone return pumps and I installed check valves but im still getting water in the refugium. Do the loc-lines have to be near the surface of the water in order for the siphon to break? If they do then why do they sell tanks with predrilled holes for your return lines? Here are some pictures to help? Thanks in advance.

jdieck · 09/21/2008, 07:15 PM

Yes, they need to be close to the surface, even for a hole or to allow only a smaller level of tank water.
You can re-dril higher or use a 90* threated street elbow up and onother one back to horizontal close to the water surface.

faded1004 · 09/22/2008, 12:31 AM

hey, is there any way to get a pic of the back area? how does it look?

also 1 pic of the whole front of the tank also...

ilv4xn · 09/22/2008, 06:28 AM

add more loc line and bend then in an s shape so the outlet is near the surface but still pointed downward

Playa-1 · 09/22/2008, 08:08 AM

The best way is to get the nozzles of the return lines closer to the surface. The higher they are in the display tank, the quicker they will draw in air and create a siphon-break.

The check-valves are useless in a saltwater tank.

HaleMoana · 09/22/2008, 08:13 AM

Or drill a 1/4" inch hole on top of the existing loclines. Then slide in a piece of RO tube (should be tight fit, so no glue should be neceasry, but you be the judge). Make sure the RO tube mounts vertically but ends about a half inch below the surface.

mm949 · 09/22/2008, 08:54 AM

locline makes a link that is like a spray bar u can add on and attach a piece of air tubing on it and place other end in overflow so it breaks siphon right away....u will have to add one to EACH discharge....OR drill a 1/4" hole inside the overflow on the discharge elbow going to the lokline and insert air tubing and loop it down in the overflow above the water level....this would be the easy and cheap fix

AZDesertRat · 09/22/2008, 09:04 AM

jdieck is on the right track, add a couple of PVC 90 degree elbows to get the returns just below the surface. Loc Line is not water tight so even if you add more and loop it closer to the surface it will still seep down to the sump and eventually overflow.
Check valves and drilled holes will fail as you have already found out with the check valves, plus drilled holes are not an option since the returns are so far down anyway.
The PVC will soon be covered in corraline so will not look bad after a few months.

Playa-1 · 09/22/2008, 09:22 AM

I didn't realize that loc-lines were not water tight. If that's the case then just moving the nozzles closer to the surface and/or drilling a hole in the line would not solve your problem.
You should follow AZDesertRats advise or adjust your sump to handle the extra water volume.

09/21/2008, 07:10 PM	#1
lifeform Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 394	please help with siphon break Hi, I have a 120gallon reef tank with a center overflow and four return lines which are connected to four bulkheads. Two of the return line bulkheads are mounted on the overflow box and the other two are on the back of the tank on each end. I have loc-lines connected to each bulkhead in the tank. I have shutoff the power and watched my sump/refugium almost overflow, how can I prevent the flood if the power shutoff and Im not home? I have two Quietone return pumps and I installed check valves but im still getting water in the refugium. Do the loc-lines have to be near the surface of the water in order for the siphon to break? If they do then why do they sell tanks with predrilled holes for your return lines? Here are some pictures to help? Thanks in advance.

09/21/2008, 07:15 PM	#2
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	Yes, they need to be close to the surface, even for a hole or to allow only a smaller level of tank water. You can re-dril higher or use a 90* threated street elbow up and onother one back to horizontal close to the water surface. __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

09/22/2008, 06:28 AM	#4
ilv4xn Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: portland OR Posts: 162	add more loc line and bend then in an s shape so the outlet is near the surface but still pointed downward __________________ Don't force it. Get a bigger hammer! Current Tank Info: 50gal

09/22/2008, 08:13 AM	#6
HaleMoana Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Philly Burbs Posts: 433	Or drill a 1/4" inch hole on top of the existing loclines. Then slide in a piece of RO tube (should be tight fit, so no glue should be neceasry, but you be the judge). Make sure the RO tube mounts vertically but ends about a half inch below the surface. __________________ HaleMoana = Home of the Ocean - Delaware Valley Reef Club - Current Tank Info: Custom Starphire 220 In Wall Wrasse Retreat

09/22/2008, 08:54 AM	#7
mm949 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 1,843	locline makes a link that is like a spray bar u can add on and attach a piece of air tubing on it and place other end in overflow so it breaks siphon right away....u will have to add one to EACH discharge....OR drill a 1/4" hole inside the overflow on the discharge elbow going to the lokline and insert air tubing and loop it down in the overflow above the water level....this would be the easy and cheap fix __________________ 219"x30"x48" - 1350gl reef Current Tank Info: ...18ft of double sided goodness

09/22/2008, 12:31 AM	#3
faded1004 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: cypress, ca Posts: 2,445	hey, is there any way to get a pic of the back area? how does it look? also 1 pic of the whole front of the tank also...

09/22/2008, 08:08 AM	#5
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	The best way is to get the nozzles of the return lines closer to the surface. The higher they are in the display tank, the quicker they will draw in air and create a siphon-break. The check-valves are useless in a saltwater tank.

09/22/2008, 09:04 AM	#8
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	jdieck is on the right track, add a couple of PVC 90 degree elbows to get the returns just below the surface. Loc Line is not water tight so even if you add more and loop it closer to the surface it will still seep down to the sump and eventually overflow. Check valves and drilled holes will fail as you have already found out with the check valves, plus drilled holes are not an option since the returns are so far down anyway. The PVC will soon be covered in corraline so will not look bad after a few months.

09/22/2008, 09:22 AM	#9
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	I didn't realize that loc-lines were not water tight. If that's the case then just moving the nozzles closer to the surface and/or drilling a hole in the line would not solve your problem. You should follow AZDesertRats advise or adjust your sump to handle the extra water volume.