sump problem has me stumped

mikekr · 09/22/2008, 07:22 AM

Here's what I think is relevent. There are two water level marks on my sump. One for the water level when the pumps are operating and a higher level mark for when I turn the pumps off. I have an auto top off. I've had my aquarium for about 9 months and it's only recently that I've had the following problem. I do a water change and set the water levels so that the water is at the lower mark when the pumps are on and at the higher mark when they're turned off. A day later, the water is at the lower mark when the pumps are on and will overflow the sump if the pumps are turned off. Let me know if you need any other info to help me with this, any ideas on what's going on is appreciated.

saltman82 · 09/22/2008, 07:27 AM

pics of your plumbing and sump? i built my own sump and had to adjust my plumbing because when the power "shut off" the sump will fill up almost to the point of overflow because of the suction of the return pump...it would start sucking water out of the tank and back into the sump. i adjusted my return plumbing so that the return is still underwater BUT its high enough that a minimal amout of water will be sucked back down into the sump.

mikekr · 09/22/2008, 07:36 AM

I'll have to wait untill tonight to take a pic of the plumbing. Good point on the return plumbing, I forgot to mention that. I have a hole drilled in the return line at a point where the line is completely out of the water. Also, I've pushed a toothpick through that hole so I think there should be no blockage. Maybe it is a siphon issue but it shouldn't be if I have that hole cleaned and why would the problem start after 8 months of good operation?

Playa-1 · 09/22/2008, 07:41 AM

It sounds like your ATO is not working properly.

fivesmallworlds · 09/22/2008, 07:45 AM

Do you use an ATO? Maybe getting to much top off water. How about dosing? Do you dose excessively?

mikekr · 09/22/2008, 08:06 AM

I do have an ATO. If it wasn't working properly then wouldn't the water level when the pumps are on, be above the lower mark in the sump? When the pumps are on the water level is right where it should be, at the lower mark in the sump.

saltman82 · 09/22/2008, 08:14 AM

you got me....i have no idea now.

Playa-1 · 09/22/2008, 09:10 AM

Considering the fact that the system has been up and running for a while and this seems to be a new problem, I would suspect that your drain is partially restricted. The water is likely slowly building in the display tank and the ATO is keeping the sump topped off at the preset level. If allowed to continue running I would suspect that the display would eventually overflow. There is more water volume in the system on day two then there was on day one.

This could also be the result of using an oversized return pump for the drain capacity and having the ball valve system out of adjustment.

mikekr · 09/22/2008, 10:14 AM

I like your first idea. I think I'll get the sump level back to where it should be, mark the level in the display and then check that display mark after a day or two.

I do have an oversized return pump, its a mag 9.5 which is a little high for my 55 gal. but part of the return flow is split-off to my refugium so the ball valve that slows the flow back to the display has a moderate setting. I think that even if the ball valve setting was off, if the water level was good on day 1, then unless the setting slipped by the next day, this wouldn't be the issue. It's a pretty tight valve.

Playa-1 · 09/22/2008, 01:43 PM

I do have an oversized return pump, its a mag 9.5 which is a little high for my 55 gal. but part of the return flow is split-off to my refugium so the ball valve that slows the flow back to the display has a moderate setting. I think that even if the ball valve setting was off, if the water level was good on day 1, then unless the setting slipped by the next day, this wouldn't be the issue. It's a pretty tight valve. [/QUOTE] [/B]

You only need about 275 gph passing thru the sump/fuge. So I would say it's more then a little oversized. Unless there is something unusual about your head pressure.
The rest of that circulation should be coming from a closed loop or powerheads.

09/22/2008, 07:22 AM	#1
mikekr Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Plantation, FL Posts: 52	sump problem has me stumped Here's what I think is relevent. There are two water level marks on my sump. One for the water level when the pumps are operating and a higher level mark for when I turn the pumps off. I have an auto top off. I've had my aquarium for about 9 months and it's only recently that I've had the following problem. I do a water change and set the water levels so that the water is at the lower mark when the pumps are on and at the higher mark when they're turned off. A day later, the water is at the lower mark when the pumps are on and will overflow the sump if the pumps are turned off. Let me know if you need any other info to help me with this, any ideas on what's going on is appreciated.

09/22/2008, 07:36 AM	#3
mikekr Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Plantation, FL Posts: 52	I'll have to wait untill tonight to take a pic of the plumbing. Good point on the return plumbing, I forgot to mention that. I have a hole drilled in the return line at a point where the line is completely out of the water. Also, I've pushed a toothpick through that hole so I think there should be no blockage. Maybe it is a siphon issue but it shouldn't be if I have that hole cleaned and why would the problem start after 8 months of good operation? __________________ Mike Current Tank Info: 55 gal mixed reef tank, 10 gal fuge, 17 gal sump, T-5's, mag 9.5, koralia 3 & 4, MSX 160

09/22/2008, 08:06 AM	#6
mikekr Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Plantation, FL Posts: 52	I do have an ATO. If it wasn't working properly then wouldn't the water level when the pumps are on, be above the lower mark in the sump? When the pumps are on the water level is right where it should be, at the lower mark in the sump. __________________ Mike Current Tank Info: 55 gal mixed reef tank, 10 gal fuge, 17 gal sump, T-5's, mag 9.5, koralia 3 & 4, MSX 160

09/22/2008, 10:14 AM	#9
mikekr Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Plantation, FL Posts: 52	I like your first idea. I think I'll get the sump level back to where it should be, mark the level in the display and then check that display mark after a day or two. I do have an oversized return pump, its a mag 9.5 which is a little high for my 55 gal. but part of the return flow is split-off to my refugium so the ball valve that slows the flow back to the display has a moderate setting. I think that even if the ball valve setting was off, if the water level was good on day 1, then unless the setting slipped by the next day, this wouldn't be the issue. It's a pretty tight valve. __________________ Mike Current Tank Info: 55 gal mixed reef tank, 10 gal fuge, 17 gal sump, T-5's, mag 9.5, koralia 3 & 4, MSX 160

09/22/2008, 07:27 AM	#2
saltman82 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lewes Delaware` Posts: 109	pics of your plumbing and sump? i built my own sump and had to adjust my plumbing because when the power "shut off" the sump will fill up almost to the point of overflow because of the suction of the return pump...it would start sucking water out of the tank and back into the sump. i adjusted my return plumbing so that the return is still underwater BUT its high enough that a minimal amout of water will be sucked back down into the sump.

09/22/2008, 07:41 AM	#4
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	It sounds like your ATO is not working properly.

09/22/2008, 07:45 AM	#5
fivesmallworlds Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 255	Do you use an ATO? Maybe getting to much top off water. How about dosing? Do you dose excessively?

09/22/2008, 08:14 AM	#7
saltman82 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lewes Delaware` Posts: 109	you got me....i have no idea now.

09/22/2008, 09:10 AM	#8
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	Considering the fact that the system has been up and running for a while and this seems to be a new problem, I would suspect that your drain is partially restricted. The water is likely slowly building in the display tank and the ATO is keeping the sump topped off at the preset level. If allowed to continue running I would suspect that the display would eventually overflow. There is more water volume in the system on day two then there was on day one. This could also be the result of using an oversized return pump for the drain capacity and having the ball valve system out of adjustment.

09/22/2008, 01:43 PM	#10
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	I do have an oversized return pump, its a mag 9.5 which is a little high for my 55 gal. but part of the return flow is split-off to my refugium so the ball valve that slows the flow back to the display has a moderate setting. I think that even if the ball valve setting was off, if the water level was good on day 1, then unless the setting slipped by the next day, this wouldn't be the issue. It's a pretty tight valve. [/QUOTE] [/B] You only need about 275 gph passing thru the sump/fuge. So I would say it's more then a little oversized. Unless there is something unusual about your head pressure. The rest of that circulation should be coming from a closed loop or powerheads.