this really stinks...

nyjets51 · 10/04/2008, 07:45 PM

I went into the aquarium store today to which I have a $250 certificate, and I told the guy I wanted to start my first SW fish tank. He says "No you don't" I said why not? "Its hard and expensive" I said I know. He asks me if I read any books on SW tanks, and I said I read on the internet and have been for almost a year. He then told me thats not good because people lie, they don't know a lot, etc... So in order to do a 40g breeder tank, he says that its going to be $2000. When I added everything up on the computer I always got WAAYYYY cheaper than that. So he took me through everything, and just the basic stuff was expensive. The one thing that turned me off was I didnt know live rock was 10.50 a pound. Is this the same price any where else? I need help and I want to know if I can do a tank cheaper than 2000 . Thanks

chirojosh · 10/04/2008, 07:50 PM

You definatly dont need to soend 2000$. The price will change depending on what your going to do, Fo vs FOWLR vs reef etc. 10.50/lb is steep. Its its like 5.00 to 6.00/lb here. Maybe at his store its' "hard and expensive." Just keep reading, I personally would stay out of lfs and get on these forums for any advice.

CompNrdCR · 10/04/2008, 07:53 PM

Do it in steps....

Granted my first hit of the SW reef cost me about $850-950 for a 50 GAL, Skimmer, Lights, Rock and sand... No corals for a few months while the tank gets matured. After that the monthly hit is only about $20 for food and $70 for the monthly water change. I am not counting electric bill or goodies that I buy. I would have to say that would be about 45-80 bucks... Plus I grow out my coral and sell it back to the LFS.

nyjets51 · 10/04/2008, 07:55 PM

How much per pound does live rock usually cost?

budbreak96 · 10/04/2008, 08:02 PM

3.50 for cured here in pcola fl.

nikon187 · 10/04/2008, 08:08 PM

$8-$10 here in alberta

inovrmyhd · 10/04/2008, 08:11 PM

You can go a lot cheaper getting things used. I got 50lbs live rock and 50lbs sand for $130, 2 powerheads for $5 each, a free clown, skimmer for $60, a quietone 3000 pump for $20. Just keep an eye out for used equipment if money is the only thing holding you back.

Freed · 10/04/2008, 08:12 PM

WAYYYY under $2000 is definately doable. Right at $2000 if you buy everything at your LFS or wherever it is you talked to that swindler at. You can buy most of what you need on the net for under half of what they charge at most LFS'. Live rock on the net might set you back $4-$6 lb er so. Check out Marine Depot and punch up a total of more than $175 or so on dry goods and shipping is free. Set up your own RO/DI system, get Instant Ocean salt for $35 for 160 gallon buckets and you can make your own saltwater for $0.25 per gallon instead of buying at your LFS for $1-$2/gallon.

macchicks · 10/04/2008, 08:16 PM

Live rock depends on area. and If you are getting it from store or private seller. Most tank break downs sell live rock cheaply. $2-$5

If you have been reading for the year you should of also watching the classified sections to see the price of used equipment. No need to go all new. Save your certificate for things you cant get used.

Also you should know from research that you dont need 40 lbs live. start with some base

I hope that help you feel better.
I plan on putting about $2000 in my 125 just to get water and rock in it. That is before lighting. You can deffinately do a 40 for cheaper.

However I have set up the 10 since july and spent Little over $150-200. That is with tank skimmer and heater already in my possesion. Salt, Water, Light bulb 25, 2 fish 45, sand 20, rock 40, snails 10, crab 5, shrimp 5, it all adds up. Dont cheap out on RO.

Raibaru · 10/04/2008, 08:55 PM

Things add up quick and the choices are limitless. You can go all top of the line and spend $2000 on your set up very easily, or you can go more entry level and better for your needs and cut off $500+ if not more eaily.

Here are some pointers for you though:
1.) Look into a local society or club in your area. These are a great resource when you are just starting out because people are all very eager to help you get started and you can make some great deals.

2.) Mail order everything you can. In most cases you save on tax, they are almost always going to be cheaper then buying local regardless of shipping charges, and you can find great information from people here. I'd only buy your tank, stand, and livestock locally.

3.) Buy base rock. There is really no reason to buy live rock and if I knew this when I started 2 years ago I could have saved quite a lot of money. Alternatively, you can buy "fresh" live rock. This is usually uncured live rock. It will cost more then base rock, but if you're just starting out you can cure it on your own and it's quite a learning experience. You will need a month or so before you can buy fish though.

If you go with base rock, you can buy it for 2-2.50 a lb + whatever shipping is (if interested I'm sure tons of people can give you websites to look into) and then you only need to buy a couple lbs of live rock to seed it.

Live Sand is also quite expensive and not worth it. You have one piece of live rock sitting on the sand and within a month or 2 all your sand will be live. You can also usually find someone local (through the clubs and societies mentioned above) who's willing to give you a lb of his sand for a minimal charge and you can just dump this on your sand to make it live too.

Base Rock and Dry sand take a couple months to really start developing coraline and such, but within 6 months you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

But yes, this hobby is expensive, but people here are very helpful and will get you started the right way. And make sure your mistakes (and you'll have them, trust me!) aren't to costly.

Phyxius · 10/04/2008, 09:10 PM

Yes you can do it way cheaper than that and as others have mentioned look at clubs in the area for deals. Craigslist has people breaking down tanks all the time selling of equipment and rock and the like for cheap. Look at the selling forums here.

There are lots of ways to save on rock by using base rock and then adding some live rock to seed it

But agronite sand and the rock will eventually seed it or get a cup of sand from a local reefer to jump start it off.

The guy at the fish store is looking for you to buy all the stuff from him where a Maxijet 1200 he has priced for 32.00 and a Mag7 pump at 129.00. Mail order and knowing where to go will save you lots.

Just being here on RC has already saved you a bunch of money

I know its saved me tons of money over the years

nyjets51 · 10/04/2008, 11:02 PM

Well I'm giving up on the SW tank thing. Thanks to the people who helped me though.

Raibaru · 10/04/2008, 11:12 PM

Shouldn't give up that quick dude lol. Why don't you give one of the "all in one" tanks a shot?

JBuffetReefer · 10/04/2008, 11:29 PM

If you are looking for a good starter tank, look into the Red Sea Max tanks. It's a 35g tank for about $800. It's a nice all in one tank. Once you get hang of it, you can upgrade.

You really have to be careful at LFS, some of them will rip you off anyway they can. You did right by doing research first. If you are serious of getting a tank, I would recommend the book "the conscience aquarist" By Robert Fenner. I learned alot from this book and wish I read it before having my tank for 2 years.

Don't give up. Do your research and start slow.

FWIW I bought my 120g tank for just over $2,000 earlier this year. Shop around and don't be afraid to ask for package deals.

tapiana · 10/04/2008, 11:30 PM

Hey NyJets!

I recently started with SW - after having FW sure compared to the $5 of gravel and $10 of goldfish - SW is expensive.

However - I have found most of my stuff on either Craigslist or here on the forum. I have gotten them CHEAP!!!!!!!

I got a 20g BioCube for $75 with tons o'crap - sand and LR from another reefer (teehee) for next to nothing - $2 a lb (got some more thrown in).

I would go with a Biocube or another all in one for starters (just me - seems easier) I would save your certificate for the livestock.

Don't give up - IMO the greatest perk about this "hobby" is that it is a slow process.

nyjets51 · 10/05/2008, 08:41 AM

Ill think about what you all said...

jmadison · 10/05/2008, 08:47 AM

Dont give up that ez man!

nyjets51 · 10/05/2008, 08:50 AM

I just looked at the Red Sea max thing: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...8&pcatid=18528

It looks like a great deal, but I am more interested in fish than I am coral, and it looks like I would not be able to put any fish in there at all, am I right?

Maxi · 10/05/2008, 08:58 AM

Go on your craiglist, and find live rock and used skimmers. I saved 200 bucks on live rock. Bought tonga fusion 3 dollars a pound, cured! You know what that is?! lol...

nyjets51 · 10/05/2008, 09:55 AM

Oh and Maxi, not to fight or anything, I don't think paintball is a sport. I play it and it is really fun, but I just don't think its a sport.

Maxi · 10/05/2008, 10:10 AM

Lets not get into an argument or change the subject

lol.

Make sure you keep an eye on your craigslist... defenetley worth it.

Everyones Hero · 10/05/2008, 10:42 AM

Why wouldn't you be able to put fish in there?

The biggest limiting factor in how many fish you can put into an aquarium is it's size. SW fish need more room than their FW counterparts.

When I first got back into aquariums I got a 20g & started a FW tank. Spent a ton of money on the tank, stand, filter, ect.

When I went to start my SW tank I was looking for used equip. Got my 55g with a stand for less than my 20g w/ stand. Granted I've probably spent a total of 2000-2500 since January on the two tanks.

Raibaru · 10/05/2008, 10:54 AM

Well tell us what fish you're interested in and we'll see what we can come up with. When all is said and done, the all-in-one tanks probably cost more then buying the components individually, and if you're more into fish then corals you can get a much more cost effective light and still keep some of the more entry level corals like soft corals, leathers, zoanthids, and maybe even lps.

FlamesFan · 10/05/2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikon187
$8-$10 here in alberta

I still ordered mine online for 3.50/pound in alberta =p

nikon187 · 10/05/2008, 01:36 PM

Online and at your LFS are 2 different things. Doesn't matter where you are you can still order it for $3.50 lb from your computer but you can't pick out individual pieces

10/04/2008, 07:45 PM	#1
nyjets51 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 52	this really stinks... I went into the aquarium store today to which I have a $250 certificate, and I told the guy I wanted to start my first SW fish tank. He says "No you don't" I said why not? "Its hard and expensive" I said I know. He asks me if I read any books on SW tanks, and I said I read on the internet and have been for almost a year. He then told me thats not good because people lie, they don't know a lot, etc... So in order to do a 40g breeder tank, he says that its going to be $2000. When I added everything up on the computer I always got WAAYYYY cheaper than that. So he took me through everything, and just the basic stuff was expensive. The one thing that turned me off was I didnt know live rock was 10.50 a pound. Is this the same price any where else? I need help and I want to know if I can do a tank cheaper than 2000 . Thanks

10/04/2008, 07:53 PM	#3
CompNrdCR Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 193	Do it in steps.... Granted my first hit of the SW reef cost me about $850-950 for a 50 GAL, Skimmer, Lights, Rock and sand... No corals for a few months while the tank gets matured. After that the monthly hit is only about $20 for food and $70 for the monthly water change. I am not counting electric bill or goodies that I buy. I would have to say that would be about 45-80 bucks... Plus I grow out my coral and sell it back to the LFS. __________________ 8 years salt so far... 65 Gal Reef Tank Feels So Small But The GF Won't Let Me Go Bigger! Current Tank Info: 65 Gal Reef Tank

10/04/2008, 08:08 PM	#6
nikon187 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Edmonton Alberta Posts: 4,717	$8-$10 here in alberta __________________ ----------------- Current Tanks: New 210 custom 84 x 24 x 24, 60g sump, SWC 250 extreme with bubble blaster 5000, 2 vortech mp40, 2 vortech mp10, 12 T5, Water blaster 5000, warner marine bio pellets, 60g clownfish cube, red carpet anemone with a 25g sump,SRO octopus 1000sss, 250w radium, lumenarc large.

10/04/2008, 08:11 PM	#7
inovrmyhd Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Scranton, PA Posts: 103	You can go a lot cheaper getting things used. I got 50lbs live rock and 50lbs sand for $130, 2 powerheads for $5 each, a free clown, skimmer for $60, a quietone 3000 pump for $20. Just keep an eye out for used equipment if money is the only thing holding you back. __________________ -- Tim -- Current Tank Info: 29gal, LS, LR, Yellowtail Damsel, Lawnmower Blenny (RIP), false percula, shrooms, candy cane, anemone, eagle eye and radioactive dragons eye zoas

10/04/2008, 08:12 PM	#8
Freed It's what it's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 41° 2' 45" N 85° 8' 43" W Posts: 7,579	WAYYYY under $2000 is definately doable. Right at $2000 if you buy everything at your LFS or wherever it is you talked to that swindler at. You can buy most of what you need on the net for under half of what they charge at most LFS'. Live rock on the net might set you back $4-$6 lb er so. Check out Marine Depot and punch up a total of more than $175 or so on dry goods and shipping is free. Set up your own RO/DI system, get Instant Ocean salt for $35 for 160 gallon buckets and you can make your own saltwater for $0.25 per gallon instead of buying at your LFS for $1-$2/gallon. __________________ Freed Current Tank Info: 180gal(1120 watts of MH/VHO light), 60gal "sump", Deltec 601 calcium reactor, Euro Reef CS8-3+ skimmer, 20 gallon QT

10/04/2008, 07:50 PM	#2
chirojosh Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 229	You definatly dont need to soend 2000$. The price will change depending on what your going to do, Fo vs FOWLR vs reef etc. 10.50/lb is steep. Its its like 5.00 to 6.00/lb here. Maybe at his store its' "hard and expensive." Just keep reading, I personally would stay out of lfs and get on these forums for any advice.

10/04/2008, 07:55 PM	#4
nyjets51 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 52	How much per pound does live rock usually cost?

10/04/2008, 08:02 PM	#5
budbreak96 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: P-Town, Florida Posts: 96	3.50 for cured here in pcola fl.

10/04/2008, 08:16 PM	#9
macchicks CORA Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: North of Columbus Posts: 514	Live rock depends on area. and If you are getting it from store or private seller. Most tank break downs sell live rock cheaply. $2-$5 If you have been reading for the year you should of also watching the classified sections to see the price of used equipment. No need to go all new. Save your certificate for things you cant get used. Also you should know from research that you dont need 40 lbs live. start with some base I hope that help you feel better. I plan on putting about $2000 in my 125 just to get water and rock in it. That is before lighting. You can deffinately do a 40 for cheaper. However I have set up the 10 since july and spent Little over $150-200. That is with tank skimmer and heater already in my possesion. Salt, Water, Light bulb 25, 2 fish 45, sand 20, rock 40, snails 10, crab 5, shrimp 5, it all adds up. Dont cheap out on RO. __________________ Amber Current Tank Info: 75 gallon Bean's Overflow 30 gallon sump , 75 pounds live rock, 2 clowns,1 female Bangai, flametail blenny, and Yellow tang. Last edited by macchicks; 10/04/2008 at 08:23 PM.

10/04/2008, 08:55 PM	#10
Raibaru Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 979	Things add up quick and the choices are limitless. You can go all top of the line and spend $2000 on your set up very easily, or you can go more entry level and better for your needs and cut off $500+ if not more eaily. Here are some pointers for you though: 1.) Look into a local society or club in your area. These are a great resource when you are just starting out because people are all very eager to help you get started and you can make some great deals. 2.) Mail order everything you can. In most cases you save on tax, they are almost always going to be cheaper then buying local regardless of shipping charges, and you can find great information from people here. I'd only buy your tank, stand, and livestock locally. 3.) Buy base rock. There is really no reason to buy live rock and if I knew this when I started 2 years ago I could have saved quite a lot of money. Alternatively, you can buy "fresh" live rock. This is usually uncured live rock. It will cost more then base rock, but if you're just starting out you can cure it on your own and it's quite a learning experience. You will need a month or so before you can buy fish though. If you go with base rock, you can buy it for 2-2.50 a lb + whatever shipping is (if interested I'm sure tons of people can give you websites to look into) and then you only need to buy a couple lbs of live rock to seed it. Live Sand is also quite expensive and not worth it. You have one piece of live rock sitting on the sand and within a month or 2 all your sand will be live. You can also usually find someone local (through the clubs and societies mentioned above) who's willing to give you a lb of his sand for a minimal charge and you can just dump this on your sand to make it live too. Base Rock and Dry sand take a couple months to really start developing coraline and such, but within 6 months you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. But yes, this hobby is expensive, but people here are very helpful and will get you started the right way. And make sure your mistakes (and you'll have them, trust me!) aren't to costly.

10/04/2008, 09:10 PM	#11
Phyxius Moving About Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: RTP NC Posts: 2,405	Yes you can do it way cheaper than that and as others have mentioned look at clubs in the area for deals. Craigslist has people breaking down tanks all the time selling of equipment and rock and the like for cheap. Look at the selling forums here. There are lots of ways to save on rock by using base rock and then adding some live rock to seed it But agronite sand and the rock will eventually seed it or get a cup of sand from a local reefer to jump start it off. The guy at the fish store is looking for you to buy all the stuff from him where a Maxijet 1200 he has priced for 32.00 and a Mag7 pump at 129.00. Mail order and knowing where to go will save you lots. Just being here on RC has already saved you a bunch of money I know its saved me tons of money over the years __________________ -Mike I never drink water because of the disgusting things that fish do in it. W. C. Fields Current Tank Info: JUST SOLD AND TOOK DOWN ALL 11/10---210g AGA, 80g sump, Tunze Streams. Tunze ATO,RK Elite Controller, RKII,Dart, GEO Calcium& Nielsen Kalk Reactors,GEO media reactor, Kaleini Rock, 3-250 watt 14k EVC , VHO..... 34g Solana and 60g cube

10/04/2008, 11:02 PM	#12
nyjets51 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 52	Well I'm giving up on the SW tank thing. Thanks to the people who helped me though.

10/04/2008, 11:12 PM	#13
Raibaru Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 979	Shouldn't give up that quick dude lol. Why don't you give one of the "all in one" tanks a shot?

10/04/2008, 11:29 PM	#14
JBuffetReefer Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 510	If you are looking for a good starter tank, look into the Red Sea Max tanks. It's a 35g tank for about $800. It's a nice all in one tank. Once you get hang of it, you can upgrade. You really have to be careful at LFS, some of them will rip you off anyway they can. You did right by doing research first. If you are serious of getting a tank, I would recommend the book "the conscience aquarist" By Robert Fenner. I learned alot from this book and wish I read it before having my tank for 2 years. Don't give up. Do your research and start slow. FWIW I bought my 120g tank for just over $2,000 earlier this year. Shop around and don't be afraid to ask for package deals. __________________ Pour me something tall and strong, make it a hurricane before I go insane. It's only half past twelve but I don't care. It's 5 O'Clock Somewhere Current Tank Info: 120 Gallon Tank soon to be reef tank & 34 Gallon Reef Tank

10/04/2008, 11:30 PM	#15
tapiana Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 79	Hey NyJets! I recently started with SW - after having FW sure compared to the $5 of gravel and $10 of goldfish - SW is expensive. However - I have found most of my stuff on either Craigslist or here on the forum. I have gotten them CHEAP!!!!!!! I got a 20g BioCube for $75 with tons o'crap - sand and LR from another reefer (teehee) for next to nothing - $2 a lb (got some more thrown in). I would go with a Biocube or another all in one for starters (just me - seems easier) I would save your certificate for the livestock. Don't give up - IMO the greatest perk about this "hobby" is that it is a slow process. __________________ Taps Current Tank Info: 29g Stock BioCube - cycling with LR

10/05/2008, 08:41 AM	#16
nyjets51 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 52	Ill think about what you all said...

10/05/2008, 08:47 AM	#17
jmadison rebmeM deretsigeR Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: PHX, AZ Posts: 1,426	Dont give up that ez man! __________________ -Keyser Söze- By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest. -Confucius Current Tank Info: Construction Zone

10/05/2008, 08:50 AM	#18
nyjets51 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 52	I just looked at the Red Sea max thing: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...8&pcatid=18528 It looks like a great deal, but I am more interested in fish than I am coral, and it looks like I would not be able to put any fish in there at all, am I right?

10/05/2008, 08:58 AM	#19
Maxi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,381	Go on your craiglist, and find live rock and used skimmers. I saved 200 bucks on live rock. Bought tonga fusion 3 dollars a pound, cured! You know what that is?! lol...

10/05/2008, 09:55 AM	#20
nyjets51 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 52	Oh and Maxi, not to fight or anything, I don't think paintball is a sport. I play it and it is really fun, but I just don't think its a sport.

10/05/2008, 10:10 AM	#21
Maxi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,381	Lets not get into an argument or change the subject lol. Make sure you keep an eye on your craigslist... defenetley worth it.

10/05/2008, 10:42 AM	#22
Everyones Hero Registered Member. Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Leonardtown, MD Posts: 1,154	Why wouldn't you be able to put fish in there? The biggest limiting factor in how many fish you can put into an aquarium is it's size. SW fish need more room than their FW counterparts. When I first got back into aquariums I got a 20g & started a FW tank. Spent a ton of money on the tank, stand, filter, ect. When I went to start my SW tank I was looking for used equip. Got my 55g with a stand for less than my 20g w/ stand. Granted I've probably spent a total of 2000-2500 since January on the two tanks.

10/05/2008, 10:54 AM	#23
Raibaru Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 979	Well tell us what fish you're interested in and we'll see what we can come up with. When all is said and done, the all-in-one tanks probably cost more then buying the components individually, and if you're more into fish then corals you can get a much more cost effective light and still keep some of the more entry level corals like soft corals, leathers, zoanthids, and maybe even lps.

10/05/2008, 01:36 PM	#25
nikon187 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Edmonton Alberta Posts: 4,717	Online and at your LFS are 2 different things. Doesn't matter where you are you can still order it for $3.50 lb from your computer but you can't pick out individual pieces __________________ ----------------- Current Tanks: New 210 custom 84 x 24 x 24, 60g sump, SWC 250 extreme with bubble blaster 5000, 2 vortech mp40, 2 vortech mp10, 12 T5, Water blaster 5000, warner marine bio pellets, 60g clownfish cube, red carpet anemone with a 25g sump,SRO octopus 1000sss, 250w radium, lumenarc large.