red slime please help

thomasp123 · 10/08/2008, 04:25 PM

I have a 75 gallon tank which has been set up for 3 weeks, I have 2 small percula clowns and 1 lawnmower blenny for fish about 12 hermits and 10 turbo snails and 2 peppermint shrimp and 2 cleaner shrimp. For about the last 4 or 5 days the tank has been covered with bright red slime. In the second week I had a brown slime wich sort of went away and now I have the red slime. My Ammonia nitrite and nitrate are all below the lowest value on my test kit. my Ph is 8.3 and water is 1.022. I have a coral life compact fluorecent light fixture with 2 65w 10k and 2 65w actinic bulbs. I run the blue lights for 11 hours and the whites for 9 hours each day. Someone please help!

waxy · 10/08/2008, 04:55 PM

How many pumps do you have circulating your tank?

Could be from lack of flow " Dead Spots "

Is it only on the sand? On the Glass? Rock?

Typically, flow would help. Too much flow may cause brown algea. Just moderate them throughout the tank.

Goodluck!

BTW Lawnmower Blennys to Hermits do not eat that red Slime. Cyano Bacteria is the name.

thomasp123 · 10/08/2008, 05:02 PM

I have a circulating pump, hador I think. I also have circulation from my canistier filter and protien skimmer. When I feed the food blows all over.

JCJHET · 10/08/2008, 05:06 PM

I think your moving way to fast.
you should wait 4 to 6 weeks before adding any livestock, and go slow after that, especially with inverts.
Your tank is cycling and that's why you have Cyano.
I would wait for a reply from someone with more experience than me to help you move foward.

stricknine · 10/08/2008, 05:10 PM

Cant wait to hear how to get rid of cyano. I have been fighting with mine for weeks, tried everything.

abulgin · 10/08/2008, 05:18 PM

First, relax. Cyano is perfectly normal and expected in the first year as the tank matures, settles, adjusts, etc. Do all the things you're supposed to do to keep nitrates and phosphates down and eventually you should see improvement.

Second, don't go doing anything crazy like dump red slime remover. Your tank is very young. Have patience. Nothing in this hobby happens fast.

stricknine · 10/08/2008, 05:29 PM

Dont mean to take over the thread, but if I understand right cyano is expected in the first year or so? I vacuum it up (comes back day or 2 later), dose prime on water changes, distilled 20% bi-weekly, running phosphate sponge media, and still it comes back.

Am I wasting my time with the efforts removing it? Should I let it go and "let nature take its course"? Is the extra dosing and media required?

Thanks!

abulgin · 10/08/2008, 05:59 PM

Why are you using Prime if you're using distilled water? It should be free of chlorine/chloramines. I guess it can't hurt--it certainly isn't causing cyano. I would use RO/DI water over distilled. Distilled can contain a lot of impurities--anything stuck in the steam goes into your tank. RO/DI systems are relatively cheap (can be had for less than $150 for sure) and will payoff in the long run.

The primary causes of cyano outbreaks are high nitrates and high phosphates. Flow also plays a big part because if portions of your sand/rockwork are trapping detritus, then that place is just asking to sprout cyano.

Cyano is unavoidable in any tank. The goal is to manage it and keep it at a reasonable level. In the first year (and certainly in the first 14 days), your tank is completely out of wack--things are fluctuating as the tank and biofilter mature. New hobbyists tend to stock too much too soon and to overfeed, all of which adds nitrates and phosphates to an immature system.

My advice is to (1) be smart about feedings, (2) use RO/DI water for all water changes, (3) make sure you have at least 3/4 lbs of live rock per gallon, (4) work in a refugium and macroalgae like Chaetomorpha, (5) use a good, quality skimmer and clean it regularly, (6) limit the photperiod to about 10 hours or less for daylights and 12 hours or less for actinics, (7) change 10-20 percent of water at least every 2 weeks, (8) use a known, good quality salt and test it for nitrates and phosphates to make sure it's not a bad batch, (9) siphon cyano off rock and sand when you do water changes, (10) make sure you have 15-20 times (at least) water turnover through quality power heads (Koralias are a good option)--you really can't have too much flow, (11) don't overstock or stock to fast, and (12) relax and be patient. I also recommend running quality carbon in a TLF phosban reactor 24/7. You can run a phosphate remover as well, but I don't use them and believe they are overused/over relied on. They are very efficient and work well for addressing discreet phosphate spikes, but constant use depletes the tank of almost all phosphate, which our animals need to live--it has been argued by some that using a phosphate sponge can actually promote cyano because cyano is so aggressive it outcompetes everything else for what little phosphate remains, to the detriment of benficial life.

jbriddle · 10/08/2008, 06:06 PM

abulgin... awesome advice. You Rock!!!!!!!!!!

stricknine · 10/08/2008, 06:19 PM

+1, great advice.

Im 9/12, and will carry out the remainder.

THANKS to thomas, good thread helped out a few of us beginners with the same problem.

KUDOS to the reefers who are not "new to the hobby" and helping out with the sometimes cumbersome hobby.

thomasp123 · 10/08/2008, 06:29 PM

Well thanks to all of you. I am doing almost all of what abulgin suggests. I do not have a Di/Ro system though. I use the tap water and mix in the salt (instant ocean) and bubble it for a couple of days before I do the water change. The animals seem fine with that so far.

I cleaned up and removed some of the cyano tonight but I think that I will try just wait it out for a while.

Tom

abulgin · 10/08/2008, 06:48 PM

Tom, I can't stress this enough--NO TAP WATER. You gotta ditch the tap water. It is full of nitrates, phosphates, silicates, copper, and any number of other impurities. This is by far your number one problem and easiest thing to fix. Spend the $ on a decent RO/DI filter pronto. Buckeye Field Supply has a good 75 gpd model that is relatively cheap and comes highly recommended by other reefers here. I bought my unit on ebay for about $110 (shipping included). It's not the absolute best product out there, but I get water with 0 TDS and have been very happy with it.

Albanets202 · 10/08/2008, 09:33 PM

Man, you can buy RO/DI water for .33 $/gallon at Walmart (find Culligan center).

abulgin · 10/08/2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Albanets202
Man, you can buy RO/DI water for .33 $/gallon at Walmart (find Culligan center).

The water you can buy at stores is only RO. It hasn't been run through a DI unit.

Buying an RO/DI unit is a no-brainer. I use mine every day to make about 3-4 gallons of water for top-offs, and I use it a couple times a week to make about 20 gallons for water changes. It cost $110, and I've replaced the filters (other than the RO membrane) twice in 15 months for a total cost of $44. So right now, I'm looking at $154 and I've probably made about 2,500-3,000 gallons of water. That's $.062 cents per gallon, plus the minimal cost of water from the City. Plus, I know what's in my water, when my filters were changed, what my TDS is, etc. unlike the case at Wal-Mart or, worse, the LFS, who may be giving you water with a TDS of 200 because he has never changed his filters.

It just makes good sense. Buying an RO/DI unit is just as important, if not more important, that buying a skimmer or lights, period.

dlapere · 10/11/2008, 09:21 AM

I had the same problem as thomasp123 - then I bought a RO/DI from LFS and since the problem has mostly vanished. So, yes, no more tap water for me! I am now thinking of adding a TLF phosban reactor - possibly 2, connected to each other, one with carbon, one with phosphate remover to get at the remaining algae.

10/08/2008, 04:25 PM	#1
thomasp123 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hadley MA Posts: 345	red slime please help I have a 75 gallon tank which has been set up for 3 weeks, I have 2 small percula clowns and 1 lawnmower blenny for fish about 12 hermits and 10 turbo snails and 2 peppermint shrimp and 2 cleaner shrimp. For about the last 4 or 5 days the tank has been covered with bright red slime. In the second week I had a brown slime wich sort of went away and now I have the red slime. My Ammonia nitrite and nitrate are all below the lowest value on my test kit. my Ph is 8.3 and water is 1.022. I have a coral life compact fluorecent light fixture with 2 65w 10k and 2 65w actinic bulbs. I run the blue lights for 11 hours and the whites for 9 hours each day. Someone please help!

10/08/2008, 06:06 PM	#9
jbriddle Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Old Saybrook, Connecticut Posts: 147	abulgin... awesome advice. You Rock!!!!!!!!!! __________________ Salt water on hardwood floor is not good!!!

10/08/2008, 04:55 PM	#2
waxy Moved On Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Jan Sose, CA Posts: 972	How many pumps do you have circulating your tank? Could be from lack of flow " Dead Spots " Is it only on the sand? On the Glass? Rock? Typically, flow would help. Too much flow may cause brown algea. Just moderate them throughout the tank. Goodluck! BTW Lawnmower Blennys to Hermits do not eat that red Slime. Cyano Bacteria is the name.

10/08/2008, 05:02 PM	#3
thomasp123 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hadley MA Posts: 345	I have a circulating pump, hador I think. I also have circulation from my canistier filter and protien skimmer. When I feed the food blows all over.

10/08/2008, 05:06 PM	#4
JCJHET Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: OH Posts: 124	I think your moving way to fast. you should wait 4 to 6 weeks before adding any livestock, and go slow after that, especially with inverts. Your tank is cycling and that's why you have Cyano. I would wait for a reply from someone with more experience than me to help you move foward.

10/08/2008, 05:10 PM	#5
stricknine Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Up North Posts: 989	Cant wait to hear how to get rid of cyano. I have been fighting with mine for weeks, tried everything.

10/08/2008, 05:18 PM	#6
abulgin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,664	First, relax. Cyano is perfectly normal and expected in the first year as the tank matures, settles, adjusts, etc. Do all the things you're supposed to do to keep nitrates and phosphates down and eventually you should see improvement. Second, don't go doing anything crazy like dump red slime remover. Your tank is very young. Have patience. Nothing in this hobby happens fast.

10/08/2008, 05:29 PM	#7
stricknine Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Up North Posts: 989	Dont mean to take over the thread, but if I understand right cyano is expected in the first year or so? I vacuum it up (comes back day or 2 later), dose prime on water changes, distilled 20% bi-weekly, running phosphate sponge media, and still it comes back. Am I wasting my time with the efforts removing it? Should I let it go and "let nature take its course"? Is the extra dosing and media required? Thanks!

10/08/2008, 05:59 PM	#8
abulgin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,664	Why are you using Prime if you're using distilled water? It should be free of chlorine/chloramines. I guess it can't hurt--it certainly isn't causing cyano. I would use RO/DI water over distilled. Distilled can contain a lot of impurities--anything stuck in the steam goes into your tank. RO/DI systems are relatively cheap (can be had for less than $150 for sure) and will payoff in the long run. The primary causes of cyano outbreaks are high nitrates and high phosphates. Flow also plays a big part because if portions of your sand/rockwork are trapping detritus, then that place is just asking to sprout cyano. Cyano is unavoidable in any tank. The goal is to manage it and keep it at a reasonable level. In the first year (and certainly in the first 14 days), your tank is completely out of wack--things are fluctuating as the tank and biofilter mature. New hobbyists tend to stock too much too soon and to overfeed, all of which adds nitrates and phosphates to an immature system. My advice is to (1) be smart about feedings, (2) use RO/DI water for all water changes, (3) make sure you have at least 3/4 lbs of live rock per gallon, (4) work in a refugium and macroalgae like Chaetomorpha, (5) use a good, quality skimmer and clean it regularly, (6) limit the photperiod to about 10 hours or less for daylights and 12 hours or less for actinics, (7) change 10-20 percent of water at least every 2 weeks, (8) use a known, good quality salt and test it for nitrates and phosphates to make sure it's not a bad batch, (9) siphon cyano off rock and sand when you do water changes, (10) make sure you have 15-20 times (at least) water turnover through quality power heads (Koralias are a good option)--you really can't have too much flow, (11) don't overstock or stock to fast, and (12) relax and be patient. I also recommend running quality carbon in a TLF phosban reactor 24/7. You can run a phosphate remover as well, but I don't use them and believe they are overused/over relied on. They are very efficient and work well for addressing discreet phosphate spikes, but constant use depletes the tank of almost all phosphate, which our animals need to live--it has been argued by some that using a phosphate sponge can actually promote cyano because cyano is so aggressive it outcompetes everything else for what little phosphate remains, to the detriment of benficial life.

10/08/2008, 06:19 PM	#10
stricknine Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Up North Posts: 989	+1, great advice. Im 9/12, and will carry out the remainder. THANKS to thomas, good thread helped out a few of us beginners with the same problem. KUDOS to the reefers who are not "new to the hobby" and helping out with the sometimes cumbersome hobby.

10/08/2008, 06:29 PM	#11
thomasp123 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hadley MA Posts: 345	Well thanks to all of you. I am doing almost all of what abulgin suggests. I do not have a Di/Ro system though. I use the tap water and mix in the salt (instant ocean) and bubble it for a couple of days before I do the water change. The animals seem fine with that so far. I cleaned up and removed some of the cyano tonight but I think that I will try just wait it out for a while. Tom

10/08/2008, 06:48 PM	#12
abulgin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,664	Tom, I can't stress this enough--NO TAP WATER. You gotta ditch the tap water. It is full of nitrates, phosphates, silicates, copper, and any number of other impurities. This is by far your number one problem and easiest thing to fix. Spend the $ on a decent RO/DI filter pronto. Buckeye Field Supply has a good 75 gpd model that is relatively cheap and comes highly recommended by other reefers here. I bought my unit on ebay for about $110 (shipping included). It's not the absolute best product out there, but I get water with 0 TDS and have been very happy with it.

10/08/2008, 09:33 PM	#13
Albanets202 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Troy NY 12180 Posts: 133	Man, you can buy RO/DI water for .33 $/gallon at Walmart (find Culligan center).

10/11/2008, 09:21 AM	#15
dlapere Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: West Australia Posts: 9	I had the same problem as thomasp123 - then I bought a RO/DI from LFS and since the problem has mostly vanished. So, yes, no more tap water for me! I am now thinking of adding a TLF phosban reactor - possibly 2, connected to each other, one with carbon, one with phosphate remover to get at the remaining algae.