question on kh and calcium

treecowboy42 · 10/08/2008, 06:29 PM

I was starting a new coral and fish tank, and I read the newbies thread on kh and calcium. I was just wondering on the proper levels of these, kh is measured in drops, which is a good level?Calcium I am not sure how it is measured, or the proper level of this, besides the reg. test is there anything I need for tests before I get started? I have a master reef test from api

IslandCrow · 10/08/2008, 06:36 PM

Calcium is generally measured in ppm. Rather than tell you, I'll show you. Take a look at this article, and it should answer all of your questions: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

If it doesn't, take a look through the links on this thread: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=102605

It's all very useful information by the way. I think I've read just about every article in that second link. And now I can impress all of my friends at parties. . .OK, not really, but good reading none the less.

treecowboy42 · 10/08/2008, 06:50 PM

Well I guess my real question is on a kh and a calcium api test kit how may drops is a good level, for kh I was told 7-12, calcium I am not sure.

seapug · 10/08/2008, 08:06 PM

You want your Alkalinity to be around 7-12. Calcium should be between 350-450 ideally, but don't be upset if you can't keep your levels at 12 dkh and cal. 450 all the time. Your ability to do this is dependent on a number of other parameters of water chemistry. pH, Magnesium, Phosphate, and Nitrate can all affect calcium and alkalinity.

Stability at some point within the acceptable range of Calcium, Alkalinity and pH is what you really want to aim for.

Here's an article with great practical advice that really helped me wrap my mind around the relationship:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

reefergeorge · 10/08/2008, 08:52 PM

I shoot for 9-12 drops on my api KH test kit. IMO 7 is too low.
On my cal I keep it around 20-21 drops. I forget what ppm that is.

WaterKeeper · 10/08/2008, 09:01 PM

It is far better to convert the drop count to actual levels in degrees KH or ppm of Ca. The kit should tell you those values. That way you can compare it with other test kit results as well as published recommended levels.

reefergeorge · 10/08/2008, 09:52 PM

For the cal I'm pretty sure each drop is 20 ppm, and for the KH I think you multiply the drops by .36 to get meq/l.
So that would be cal of 400-420, and kh of 3.24-4.32 meq/l

I usually write what I want on the bottles, and toss all the paper work. What man needs directions

WaterKeeper · 10/08/2008, 10:02 PM

Let's see, Electrician that don't know a meq/l if one fell on them?

treecowboy42 · 10/09/2008, 04:19 PM

Thanks for the info, I read the newbie thread that Waterkeeper wrote, I was just not sure on how to transfer, the drop ratio to ppm.

treecowboy42 · 10/09/2008, 04:43 PM

I read that a 2 equal part system is best, and I do understand that needing to add just 1 at a time may come up also, I was wondering if this a good 2 part system? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...37&pcatid=4737

WaterKeeper · 10/09/2008, 04:54 PM

I know this guy and he writes some good stuff--

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/rhf/index.php

Even if his his one of those good for nothing Chemists.

treecowboy42 · 10/09/2008, 07:01 PM

wow good reading and very heplful in learning, you know your stuff. some points alittle deep for me, but I got the jist of it all.

treecowboy42 · 10/09/2008, 07:14 PM

So after reading your articles, I am starting a 55 gal sw, with 50 lbs of live rock, 45 lbs of Argonite and crushed coral, I have a sump filter, with carbon and bio balls, and a 220 gal protein skimmer. Will that be good for dealing with most of what you speak about with different levels of chem. and minerals, in a tank?

WaterKeeper · 10/09/2008, 10:35 PM

People,

Those articles are by Randy Holmes-Farley, the lord of the Chemistry Forum. My articles always start out "Darn Newbies!"

I know it is easy to get us confused but I'm the handsome one.

lilmonster · 10/10/2008, 01:21 AM

Thanks for all the articles, my head hurts now, too much input

10/08/2008, 06:29 PM	#1
treecowboy42 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Motor Posts: 164	question on kh and calcium I was starting a new coral and fish tank, and I read the newbies thread on kh and calcium. I was just wondering on the proper levels of these, kh is measured in drops, which is a good level?Calcium I am not sure how it is measured, or the proper level of this, besides the reg. test is there anything I need for tests before I get started? I have a master reef test from api

10/08/2008, 06:36 PM	#2
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	Calcium is generally measured in ppm. Rather than tell you, I'll show you. Take a look at this article, and it should answer all of your questions: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php If it doesn't, take a look through the links on this thread: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=102605 It's all very useful information by the way. I think I've read just about every article in that second link. And now I can impress all of my friends at parties. . .OK, not really, but good reading none the less. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

10/08/2008, 08:06 PM	#4
seapug Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: 4980 ft. Posts: 7,954 Blog Entries: 1	You want your Alkalinity to be around 7-12. Calcium should be between 350-450 ideally, but don't be upset if you can't keep your levels at 12 dkh and cal. 450 all the time. Your ability to do this is dependent on a number of other parameters of water chemistry. pH, Magnesium, Phosphate, and Nitrate can all affect calcium and alkalinity. Stability at some point within the acceptable range of Calcium, Alkalinity and pH is what you really want to aim for. Here's an article with great practical advice that really helped me wrap my mind around the relationship: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm __________________ insert clever saying here. Current Tank Info: 200 gallon custom Marineland DD peninsular tank. LPS dominated mixed reef. Previous 90 gallon mixed reef TOTM April 2009.

10/08/2008, 08:52 PM	#5
reefergeorge Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Louis MO Posts: 4,222	I shoot for 9-12 drops on my api KH test kit. IMO 7 is too low. On my cal I keep it around 20-21 drops. I forget what ppm that is. __________________ $35-50 for a <1" frag of some stupid named thing that came from a colony you bought for $40-60 wholesale and chopped into 20-40 pieces? No thanks. "JasonH" Current Tank Info: 125 aggressive reef, DIY led lighting, swc cone skimmer, 33 gallon sump, posiden Ps3 return.

10/08/2008, 09:01 PM	#6
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	It is far better to convert the drop count to actual levels in degrees KH or ppm of Ca. The kit should tell you those values. That way you can compare it with other test kit results as well as published recommended levels. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

10/08/2008, 06:50 PM	#3
treecowboy42 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Motor Posts: 164	Well I guess my real question is on a kh and a calcium api test kit how may drops is a good level, for kh I was told 7-12, calcium I am not sure.

10/08/2008, 09:52 PM	#7
reefergeorge Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Louis MO Posts: 4,222	For the cal I'm pretty sure each drop is 20 ppm, and for the KH I think you multiply the drops by .36 to get meq/l. So that would be cal of 400-420, and kh of 3.24-4.32 meq/l I usually write what I want on the bottles, and toss all the paper work. What man needs directions __________________ $35-50 for a <1" frag of some stupid named thing that came from a colony you bought for $40-60 wholesale and chopped into 20-40 pieces? No thanks. "JasonH" Current Tank Info: 125 aggressive reef, DIY led lighting, swc cone skimmer, 33 gallon sump, posiden Ps3 return. Last edited by reefergeorge; 10/08/2008 at 10:34 PM.

10/08/2008, 10:02 PM	#8
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Let's see, Electrician that don't know a meq/l if one fell on them? __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

10/09/2008, 04:19 PM	#9
treecowboy42 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Motor Posts: 164	Thanks for the info, I read the newbie thread that Waterkeeper wrote, I was just not sure on how to transfer, the drop ratio to ppm.

10/09/2008, 04:43 PM	#10
treecowboy42 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Motor Posts: 164	I read that a 2 equal part system is best, and I do understand that needing to add just 1 at a time may come up also, I was wondering if this a good 2 part system? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...37&pcatid=4737

10/09/2008, 04:54 PM	#11
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	I know this guy and he writes some good stuff-- http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/rhf/index.php http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/rhf/index.php http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/rhf/index.php Even if his his one of those good for nothing Chemists. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

10/09/2008, 07:01 PM	#12
treecowboy42 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Motor Posts: 164	wow good reading and very heplful in learning, you know your stuff. some points alittle deep for me, but I got the jist of it all.

10/09/2008, 07:14 PM	#13
treecowboy42 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Motor Posts: 164	So after reading your articles, I am starting a 55 gal sw, with 50 lbs of live rock, 45 lbs of Argonite and crushed coral, I have a sump filter, with carbon and bio balls, and a 220 gal protein skimmer. Will that be good for dealing with most of what you speak about with different levels of chem. and minerals, in a tank?

10/09/2008, 10:35 PM	#14
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	People, Those articles are by Randy Holmes-Farley, the lord of the Chemistry Forum. My articles always start out "Darn Newbies!" I know it is easy to get us confused but I'm the handsome one. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

10/10/2008, 01:21 AM	#15
lilmonster Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Riverside, CA Posts: 324	Thanks for all the articles, my head hurts now, too much input