Is There Ever Going to Be A Breakthrough In This Hobby For PH?

Ehgemus · 10/20/2008, 08:39 AM

Just like the title says, Is there ever going to be something that keeps PH up to at lease 8.1 or higher. Is it already out there and I missed it somehow?

BigJay · 10/20/2008, 08:50 AM

There's no need for a breakthrough, there are already very good solutions for this. One is to expose your tank to some fresh air, simply open a window and the doors to your sump, then the excess CO2 will gas out of your water, raising the PH. A kalk reactor is a more expensive way to go, but it will accomplish the same thing in addition to raising both alkalinity and calcium.

GSMguy · 10/20/2008, 08:51 AM

Kalk drip will help, so will a bigger skimmer or a fuge on reverse lghting cycle

Ehgemus · 10/20/2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigJay
There's no need for a breakthrough, there are already very good solutions for this. One is to expose your tank to some fresh air, simply open a window and the doors to your sump, then the excess CO2 will gas out of your water, raising the PH. A kalk reactor is a more expensive way to go, but it will accomplish the same thing in addition to raising both alkalinity and calcium.

yes this is true but there is only about 1 month out of the year that I can open the doors and windows around hear. as for the kalk it does not work all that well for me as far as raising PH. I replace all my evaporation water with kalk.

BigJay · 10/20/2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GSMguy
Kalk drip will help, so will a bigger skimmer or a fuge on reverse lghting cycle

A big "plus-one" on the reverse-cycle refugium, I completely forgot about that one. That little investment alone has kept me out of the 7's for the last five months.

If I had to do kalk, I'd avoid a drip since it's hard to measure and control. I think a reactor feed tied to my an aquacontroller/reefkeeper is the best way to do. That way it can be dosed at specific times, and only when the PH allows. Either that, or add some kalk to your ATO reservoir, that way the kalk is added slowly as the tank water evaporates. If you know your tanks evaporation rate (eg 1 gallon per day) then you know exactly how much saturated kalk you are adding every day.

BigJay · 10/20/2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ehgemus
yes this is true but there is only about 1 month out of the year that I can open the doors and windows around hear. as for the kalk it does not work all that well for me as far as raising PH. I replace all my evaporation water with kalk.

Is there a way to have your skimmer draw air from your attic or outside?

What is your daily evaporation? How much kalk are you adding to your ATO?

Ehgemus · 10/20/2008, 09:10 AM

Even with every window and door open in the house the highest PH I have recorded was 8.1 That is a fine PH don't get me wrong but I only get that 1 month out of the year.

Amoore311 · 10/20/2008, 09:12 AM

Man I don't know how people have problems with Low PH. I must just be lucky.

Mine runs at 8.7 and I only dose 2 part, no kalk at all.

Ehgemus · 10/20/2008, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigJay
A big "plus-one" on the reverse-cycle refugium, I completely forgot about that one. That little investment alone has kept me out of the 7's for the last five months.

If I had to do kalk, I'd avoid a drip since it's hard to measure and control. I think a reactor feed tied to my an aquacontroller/reefkeeper is the best way to do. That way it can be dosed at specific times, and only when the PH allows. Either that, or add some kalk to your ATO reservoir, that way the kalk is added slowly as the tank water evaporates. If you know your tanks evaporation rate (eg 1 gallon per day) then you know exactly how much saturated kalk you are adding every day.

My refuge is on a reverse lighting and I'm sure it does help.
My kalk is on a ATO.

Ehgemus · 10/20/2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigJay
Is there a way to have your skimmer draw air from your attic or outside?

What is your daily evaporation? How much kalk are you adding to your ATO?

I have tried this long ago but never seen any increase in PH
My evaporation is about 1.5g a day. I add 1.5 table spoons to 5g of top off water, and this takes care of my cal and alk.

rick s · 10/20/2008, 09:23 AM

If your low pH is caused by high carbon dioxide in the house, attaching an outside airline to your skimmer has helped quite a few people. Here is another satisfied reefer: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1491444

Ehgemus · 10/20/2008, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amoore311
Man I don't know how people have problems with Low PH. I must just be lucky.

Mine runs at 8.7 and I only dose 2 part, no kalk at all.

are you sure 8.7 is right?

GSMguy · 10/20/2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ehgemus
are you sure 8.7 is right?

I doubt it, PH probes need recalibration every couple months or so

Amoore311 · 10/20/2008, 09:33 AM

Test Kit might be old? I don't use a probe.

I just started dosing 2 Part, previously only did water changes so I never even paid attention to it. I'll retest tomorrow and see if I screwed it up at all, which I'm guessing I did.

Amoore311 · 10/20/2008, 09:34 AM

Yeah I'm an idiot.... In my notes I made the 2 look like a 7.

My PH is 8.2 sorry about that.

Ehgemus · 10/20/2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amoore311
Yeah I'm an idiot.... In my notes I made the 2 look like a 7.

My PH is 8.2 sorry about that.

Well you are lucky if it stays there all the time.

Ehgemus · 10/20/2008, 09:41 AM

I have tried pulling outside air for my skimmer about two years ago on my 46G but never seen any change, I am going to try this on my 75g.

Amoore311 · 10/20/2008, 10:15 AM

how big of a skimmer was it on the 46G?? Only asking b/c if was a little wimpy HOB it probably wouldn't have made it any different.

fishdoc11 · 10/20/2008, 10:15 AM

pH is overrated in reef tanks IMO. As long as it's over 7.8 or so it should be just fine. Alk is a much more important parameter. Your alk and Mg do look a tad low. You might benifit from using some 2 part (including Mg) to help keep up. Lots of people go through the same thing of trying to raise pH and IMO it's not worth stressing over. You might also check what you are using to measure against some other test kits/meters etc.....
hth, Chris

Ehgemus · 10/20/2008, 10:27 AM

pH is overrated in reef tanks IMO. As long as it's over 7.8 or so it should be just fine. Alk is a much more important parameter. Your alk and Mg do look a tad low. You might benifit from using some 2 part (including Mg) to help keep up. Lots of people go through the same thing of trying to raise pH and IMO it's not worth stressing over. You might also check what you are using to measure against some other test kits/meters etc.....
yes PH is overrated that is why I only check it like 3 times a year I say why check for something if there is nothing you can do for it.
my alk and mag is a little low and is being fixed as we speak.
I am just trying to find out if there is something new out there for PH.

Ehgemus · 10/20/2008, 10:31 AM

how big of a skimmer was it on the 46G?? Only asking b/c if was a little wimpy HOB it probably wouldn't have made it any different.

It was a diy skimmer 6" body 15" tall it was a good skimmer, worked good 0 nitrates at all times.

Nanz · 10/20/2008, 10:58 AM

My pH is 7.9 - 8.0 and I can't increase it.

- I tried using Kalkwasser and it made my sand as hard as a rock.
- I connected the hose from my skimmer to suck air from outside.

Nothing has really made a difference and now I use a Ca reactor with a second chamber. My tank is thriving and everything is very healthy and growing rapidly. As long as my pH does not fluctuate much Im not very concerned that it is low.

Stable pH
Stable Alkalinity (165ppm)
Stable Ca (450 ppm)
Stable Mg (1350 ppm) I use ZeoMag in my reactor's second chamber.

Shiandy · 10/20/2008, 11:39 AM

I think at the end of the day, its all about maintaining a steady ph, and keeping fluctuations to a minimum. The reverse fudge idea is a great way to aid this.

Plus always take your ph reading's at the same time of day, just before lights out would be an ideal time.

MileHighFish · 10/20/2008, 12:46 PM

put a fan over your sump and increase your evaporation, more kalk would hlp i think..

JustinReef · 10/20/2008, 12:59 PM

My PH is steady at 8.3-8.4 on my controller during the day and drops to 8.1 at night. I have never seen it below 8.1 since using kalk in my ATO. I know my tank evaporates 2.5 gallons a day, so I know how much kalk is being dumped into my tank throughout the day.

I also have my windows and balcony sliding door open all year round. That may help. We have free gas in our condo so we keep the fire on all the time in the winter but also keep the door open for fresh air. Seems to work well for the tank. Summer time the fire is off of course but the door/window is still always open. My stand is only enclosed on two sides, so it has good air movement.

Maybe your test kits are old or your probe needs to be calibrated? I know my probe seems to need calibration every 4-6 months.

Oh and the nice thing about kalk is since using it, not only does my PH stay great but my alk and calcium also stay perfect. Its so much easier for me than when I was dosing a two part.

10/20/2008, 08:39 AM	#1
Ehgemus Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central City Ky Posts: 1,585	Is There Ever Going to Be A Breakthrough In This Hobby For PH? Just like the title says, Is there ever going to be something that keeps PH up to at lease 8.1 or higher. Is it already out there and I missed it somehow?

10/20/2008, 08:50 AM	#2
BigJay Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southlake, Texas Posts: 1,872	There's no need for a breakthrough, there are already very good solutions for this. One is to expose your tank to some fresh air, simply open a window and the doors to your sump, then the excess CO2 will gas out of your water, raising the PH. A kalk reactor is a more expensive way to go, but it will accomplish the same thing in addition to raising both alkalinity and calcium. __________________ PBITAWA

10/20/2008, 08:51 AM	#3
GSMguy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northern New Mexico Posts: 17,420	Kalk drip will help, so will a bigger skimmer or a fuge on reverse lghting cycle __________________ Nick. Conehead. Shallow Reef club. Current Tank Info: 48"x27"x14" Envision Acrylic rimless, 6x39w ATi Sunpower, Custom ATB Deluxe Skimmer, 4x tunze nano stream,ATB flowstar 1500, ACJR, Tunze osmolator.

10/20/2008, 09:12 AM	#8
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	Man I don't know how people have problems with Low PH. I must just be lucky. Mine runs at 8.7 and I only dose 2 part, no kalk at all. __________________ 30 Gallon FOWLR 2004-2006 90 Gallon LPS Reef 2006-2008 180 Gallon SPS Reef 2008-20012 100 Gallon Custom Rimless Mixed Reef 2012-2014 29 Gallon Biocube Reef! Current Current Tank Info: 29 Gallon Biocube, StevesLED Upgrade, Neptune Apex

10/20/2008, 09:23 AM	#11
rick s Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Chester, VA Posts: 2,993	If your low pH is caused by high carbon dioxide in the house, attaching an outside airline to your skimmer has helped quite a few people. Here is another satisfied reefer: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1491444 __________________ Rick Current Tank Info: Reefer Emeritus

10/20/2008, 09:10 AM	#7
Ehgemus Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central City Ky Posts: 1,585	Even with every window and door open in the house the highest PH I have recorded was 8.1 That is a fine PH don't get me wrong but I only get that 1 month out of the year.

10/20/2008, 09:33 AM	#14
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	Test Kit might be old? I don't use a probe. I just started dosing 2 Part, previously only did water changes so I never even paid attention to it. I'll retest tomorrow and see if I screwed it up at all, which I'm guessing I did. __________________ 30 Gallon FOWLR 2004-2006 90 Gallon LPS Reef 2006-2008 180 Gallon SPS Reef 2008-20012 100 Gallon Custom Rimless Mixed Reef 2012-2014 29 Gallon Biocube Reef! Current Current Tank Info: 29 Gallon Biocube, StevesLED Upgrade, Neptune Apex

10/20/2008, 09:34 AM	#15
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	Yeah I'm an idiot.... In my notes I made the 2 look like a 7. My PH is 8.2 sorry about that. __________________ 30 Gallon FOWLR 2004-2006 90 Gallon LPS Reef 2006-2008 180 Gallon SPS Reef 2008-20012 100 Gallon Custom Rimless Mixed Reef 2012-2014 29 Gallon Biocube Reef! Current Current Tank Info: 29 Gallon Biocube, StevesLED Upgrade, Neptune Apex

10/20/2008, 09:41 AM	#17
Ehgemus Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central City Ky Posts: 1,585	I have tried pulling outside air for my skimmer about two years ago on my 46G but never seen any change, I am going to try this on my 75g.

10/20/2008, 10:15 AM	#18
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	how big of a skimmer was it on the 46G?? Only asking b/c if was a little wimpy HOB it probably wouldn't have made it any different. __________________ 30 Gallon FOWLR 2004-2006 90 Gallon LPS Reef 2006-2008 180 Gallon SPS Reef 2008-20012 100 Gallon Custom Rimless Mixed Reef 2012-2014 29 Gallon Biocube Reef! Current Current Tank Info: 29 Gallon Biocube, StevesLED Upgrade, Neptune Apex

10/20/2008, 10:15 AM	#19
fishdoc11 catch and release Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Old Hickory,TN Posts: 13,237	pH is overrated in reef tanks IMO. As long as it's over 7.8 or so it should be just fine. Alk is a much more important parameter. Your alk and Mg do look a tad low. You might benifit from using some 2 part (including Mg) to help keep up. Lots of people go through the same thing of trying to raise pH and IMO it's not worth stressing over. You might also check what you are using to measure against some other test kits/meters etc..... hth, Chris __________________ "Try to learn something about everything and everything about something" -- Thomas H. Huxley Current Tank Info: 70 gallon mixed reef

10/20/2008, 10:27 AM	#20
Ehgemus Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central City Ky Posts: 1,585	pH is overrated in reef tanks IMO. As long as it's over 7.8 or so it should be just fine. Alk is a much more important parameter. Your alk and Mg do look a tad low. You might benifit from using some 2 part (including Mg) to help keep up. Lots of people go through the same thing of trying to raise pH and IMO it's not worth stressing over. You might also check what you are using to measure against some other test kits/meters etc..... yes PH is overrated that is why I only check it like 3 times a year I say why check for something if there is nothing you can do for it. my alk and mag is a little low and is being fixed as we speak. I am just trying to find out if there is something new out there for PH.

10/20/2008, 10:31 AM	#21
Ehgemus Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central City Ky Posts: 1,585	how big of a skimmer was it on the 46G?? Only asking b/c if was a little wimpy HOB it probably wouldn't have made it any different. It was a diy skimmer 6" body 15" tall it was a good skimmer, worked good 0 nitrates at all times.

10/20/2008, 10:58 AM	#22
Nanz Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,389	My pH is 7.9 - 8.0 and I can't increase it. - I tried using Kalkwasser and it made my sand as hard as a rock. - I connected the hose from my skimmer to suck air from outside. Nothing has really made a difference and now I use a Ca reactor with a second chamber. My tank is thriving and everything is very healthy and growing rapidly. As long as my pH does not fluctuate much Im not very concerned that it is low. Stable pH Stable Alkalinity (165ppm) Stable Ca (450 ppm) Stable Mg (1350 ppm) I use ZeoMag in my reactor's second chamber. __________________ S.G. = 1.025, Temp = 78.5, pH = 8.00 Ca = 550 ppm, Alk = 176 ppm (9.85 dKH), Mg = 1300 ppm NO3 = 0.97 ppm, PO4 = 0.07 ppm Nuvo 30, Razor Nano LED, Tunze ATO, Tunze 9004 skimmer, Vortec mp10,

10/20/2008, 11:39 AM	#23
Shiandy Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: UK Posts: 367	I think at the end of the day, its all about maintaining a steady ph, and keeping fluctuations to a minimum. The reverse fudge idea is a great way to aid this. Plus always take your ph reading's at the same time of day, just before lights out would be an ideal time.

10/20/2008, 12:46 PM	#24
MileHighFish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NM. Posts: 1,722	put a fan over your sump and increase your evaporation, more kalk would hlp i think.. __________________ See "Red House" for pics!! I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. Mitch Hedberg Current Tank Info: Reef tank, 100 gal Lee Mar polished.. 60 sump.. 800 watts mh 20k radium..Ran on "Taiwan HQI Ballast" 330 watt VHO.. 48 watt compacts (dawn/dusk).. sps/lps tank..

10/20/2008, 12:59 PM	#25
JustinReef Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,715	My PH is steady at 8.3-8.4 on my controller during the day and drops to 8.1 at night. I have never seen it below 8.1 since using kalk in my ATO. I know my tank evaporates 2.5 gallons a day, so I know how much kalk is being dumped into my tank throughout the day. I also have my windows and balcony sliding door open all year round. That may help. We have free gas in our condo so we keep the fire on all the time in the winter but also keep the door open for fresh air. Seems to work well for the tank. Summer time the fire is off of course but the door/window is still always open. My stand is only enclosed on two sides, so it has good air movement. Maybe your test kits are old or your probe needs to be calibrated? I know my probe seems to need calibration every 4-6 months. Oh and the nice thing about kalk is since using it, not only does my PH stay great but my alk and calcium also stay perfect. Its so much easier for me than when I was dosing a two part.