Confused on RO/DI filters

[JCR's Reef]

Well I bought a Water general 6 stage ro/di unit off of filterdirect on another site (I'm sure you know where). After doing some research I have read that "some not all" say the filters are junk. Are they? One of them say Purerite 5 micron sediment filter (Kemflo?) and the other 2 are just carbon with no name on it. Question is do I just replace them or go ahead and use them. I havent set it up yet. I also purchased the dual inline TDS meter.
Where do you get good filters and DI replacement at that is quality stuff for drinking and aquarium use? Thanks

[brodden]

5 micron should be fine. The worst thing that could happen would be that you would wear out the DI resin quicker than normal becuase it catches everything that is missed by the others.

[JCR's Reef]

Thanks for the response brodden. Maybe thats why it has two DI filters on it huh? What filters do most people use?

[brodden]

The second DI filter is just there as an add-on so that you can keep making RODI water when the first one is worn out. It isn't really necessary since the DI resin can be replaced rather easily in the first one usually. Generally speaking a 4-stage filter is the most that is "needed". Anything more than that is extra. Check out this page for more info: RODI FAQ

[AZDesertRat]

If you ahve not used it yet i would return it and buy a reef quality system. It is really low quality, not only the filters but the housings and fittings too.
Look at better units like the 75 GPD Premium from www.buckeyefieldsupply.com , you get a 1 micron prefilter, a 0.6 micron 20,000 gallon Chlorine Guzzler carbon block, a true Dow Filmtec 75 GPD 98% rejection RO membrane, a true 10" canister and 20 oz refillable cartridge type engineered DI filter that works, an inline pressure gauge, a nice HM Digital handheld TDS meter, a RO bypass valve, etc. No comparison and all for only $169.
No secrets and no question as to the name brand or quality of the components.

[sjm817]

Its not a bad unit. The worst part is the DI should be replaced with a true vertical canister which is very easy to do.

What are you getting for TDS @ the source, after the RO and after the DI outputs? Prefilters should always be replaced after 6 mo use. I would use it, replace the filters at that time.

[JCR's Reef]

It dont look like a bad unit at all. I havent hooked it up yet and when things like the fittings get worn I'll just get the locking kind. My main concern was the filters. The filters is what really matters in my opinion. What type of materials am I looking for in a good filter as far as what it is made from.

[JCR's Reef]

Thanks Brodden. The facts sheet cleared alot up except "What are CTA, TFC, and PVC? If most are TFC, how do you protect it from chlorine?

[AZDesertRat]

Important features are a 1 micron or less prefferable absolute rated prefilter, a 0.5 or 0.6 micron Chlorine Guzzler carbon block capable of adsorbing the residual chlorine form up to 20,000 gallons of water, true 10" canister style 20 oz capacity DI filter which flows from thge bottom up, inline pressure gauge so you know the pressure available to the membrane, handheld TDS meter so you know how the system is working, 75 GPD Dow Filmtec RO membrane capable of 96-98% rejection and 75 GPD at 77 degrees F water temp and 50 psi incoming pressure etc. That unit does not have a single one of the above, not one.

The carbon is what protects the membrane from chlorine. Cheap carbons do not las tas long nor work as well so the membrane is at risk. Some vendors use two cheap carbons and make it look like they are doing something great when in fact the two still do not equal a single good carbon block. Same with the little dinky 6 oz horizontal DI's, they add two and call them "stages" like its the bst thing since sliced bread but hey still are very inefficient since they short circuit and channel horribly.

Trade it back and start with a good system rather than spending money to make that one work.

[JCR's Reef]

Wow AZ. It has everything you said except except the quality prefilters and carbon(which will be replaced in six months which is why I'm asking where and what to get), and the
DI's I can swap out. I understand bigger vertical ones is better and as soon as my tds meter starts showing signs of exhuastion I will do something about that. I'm not trying to be short but when I reread this it sounds like I am
When reading the RC faqs on ro/di it says anything below 5 micron is up in the air as to whether or not if it does any good.
And to protect against Chlorine/Chloramine I should install the guzzler Carbon block first, TFC filter next, then carbon again right?
I have city water so I know my levels is hi. Some reefers around here say there running 425/450 before entering RO/DI. Thats why Im trying to better understand the actual filters what is filtering the water, not the unit itself which is holding the water and traveling through tubes.
The wife has me on a tight budget and this was what was allowed.

[sjm817]

You can get the replacement filters form a number of vendors. RC has many sponsors that provide good quality systems and replacement filters.

As an example, here is a good replacement filter kit from Bulk Reef Supply that includes DI resin for $32
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI-...duct_info.html

To swap out the DI to a vertical canister, you can get this for $35:
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI-...duct_info.html

[AZDesertRat]

You are mistaken. The housings are not ANSI/NSF or UPC approved unless they changed recently, wait till one cracks and floods in the middle of the night due to inferior construction. The fittings did not use to be John Guest speed fittings so they leak. Pressure gauges must be a new item for them along with handheld TDS meters, they were never provided before. They did not provide an RO bypass valve, still don't think they do.

There is a difference when it comes to RO/DI and you really do get what you pay for. Think about it, Quality Costs Money. It does not get any simpler than that. None of the RC Sposnors that sell RO/DI are getting rich. None of them are price gouging either, in fact they have a very small mark up. When membranes sell for $40 or so add up all the other pieces even from a wholesaler and see if it makes any sense to you? They cannot sell a quality system using brand name and approved components for that price and make any money. they sure are not selling them for a loss so whats the difference? Quality.

[sjm817]

So the WG that I have been using for 5 years has housings that are no good now? I guess I have to wait for the cracks and floods to occur? And just when will the fitting leaks start?
JCR, I wouldn't be concerned. There is nothing wrong with the housings. I'm sure there are few mfgrs of the actual housings and many mfgrs of RO/DI systems use the same ones.

[JCR's Reef]

Az, I figured it was a cheaper price because the filter media its self wasnt good quality, not the unit. Maybe I made a mistake. But reviews of people who have water general dont have any complaints, just people who can afford the more exspensive units. Not saying thats what your doing at all by any means.
I figured if I bought good media, it would be a very good unit for the price.
Heres what the unit came with and why I bought it.
6 stage 110g per day
-3 clear filter canisters with media
-2 DI's
-3 gallon resevoir tank for drinking water
-Drinking faucet, so it does have a hookup after RO befor it goes through DI
-Pressure Gauge
-Dual inline TDS meter (sorry not the handheld like you mentioned)
- Parts for 3 different ways to hook it up to your cold water
- All tubing

1st stage: high capacity, 5 micron sediment filter, to remove sediment, rust, sand, (replace every 12 months)

2nd stage: high capacity carbon filter, coconut shell carbon block filter removes chlorine, taste & odor (replace every 12 months)

3rd stage: high capacity carbon filter, coconut shell carbon block filter further removing chlorine to ensure 100% removal of chlorine (replace every 12 months)

4th stage: TFC-100/TFM-100 Premium membrane we have done extensive testing among different brands of membrane, and we recently have switched to a higher rejection membrane GE Desal membrane, (even better than Filmtec membrane), it removes 97% to 98% of all chemical, dissolved solids in tap water. (replace every 2-3 years) Look at data below.

5th stage: DI filter (de-ionized, de-mineralize filter), Nuclear grade, color changing DI filter with refillable clear housing. The DI filter removes remaining of dissolved solids after RO system. A ball valve is included for dispensing DI water into open containers or to open tank. GOOD for reef, aquarium, hydroponics applications.

6th stage: high capacity final stage inline carbon filter, granular activated carbon, to improve taste of water. (replace every 12 months)

[Fireworm]

Josh, it is my understanding that you can drink the RO water, but you do not want to drink the RO/DI water. I heard that is tastes like crap, and can harm you or the little ones.

I run a "T" off my RO line before it goes into my DI for drinking water.

Also, for some of your filters, if you have the standard 10" like most of us, you can get the fileters at Lowe's. I have a whole house filter, that has a 5 micron sediment/carbon filter from there. Then into my RO unit. I use a 5 micron sediment filter from lowes, they sell better ones but thats what I had cash for at the time. Then into my refillable carbon cartridge. IMO better than the carbon block. And unless you have a clear canister for you DI resin, there is no sense spending the money for the color changing stuff at all.

[Fireworm]

Josh, it is my understanding that you can drink the RO water, but you do not want to drink the RO/DI water. I heard that is tastes like crap, and can harm you or the little ones.

I run a "T" off my RO line before it goes into my DI for drinking water.

Also, for some of your filters, if you have the standard 10" like most of us, you can get the fileters at Lowe's. I have a whole house filter, that has a 5 micron sediment/carbon filter from there. Then into my RO unit. I use a 5 micron sediment filter from lowes, they sell better ones but thats what I had cash for at the time. Then into my refillable carbon cartridge. IMO better than the carbon block. And unless you have a clear canister for you DI resin, there is no sense spending the money for the color changing stuff at all.

[texhorns98]

Not to hijack your thread here, but I have a question about using an RO/DI filter in an ATO system. I'm installing a 20G sump in my cabinet and had an idea for running a line from my RO/DI (yet to be purchased) and attaching it to a float switch in the sump for a little ATO action. Am I crazy or will this work? The water line would run from the unit in the kitchen (most likely) under the floor in the crawl (would have to be insulated) and then up through a hole I drill in the floor (don't tell the wife) into the sump. Seems too easy and too good to be true.

[texhorns98]

And would I need a separate pump for the above application or do the units themselves pump water or have some sort of on/off switch.

[JCR's Reef]

Sounds like it would work tex. You can buy a float switch to turn on the powerhead. If you search for Auto Top off in the search feature it'll bring up a bunch of threads of what other people have done.

[JCR's Reef]

Hey Phil. It came with everything to T off for drinking water. It also has the clear DI canister to see when it would need to be changed. I just know in our area we have alot of impurities in our water that people say damages the filters themselves. Just trying to research people's opinions on what they have used for a future purchase.

[AZDesertRat]

JCR, the quality of the housings and other parts are not the same. Trust me, I treat water for a living and have done so for over 34 years now. They also use the old, and I mean old time compression fittings, no one uses those anymore. Next the quality of the filters is less than desirable but you already know that, note they don't even tell you micron ratings or chlorine capacity on the carbons. Next there is absolutely no reason in the world for two carbons IF thye are good quality like the Matrikx+1 Chlorine Guzzler, that includes chloramines and any other thing. Look at some of the very best systems in the world, they use a single carbon block. What they call DI filters are a joke. Little horizontal hollow tubes with 6 oz of resin beads bobbing around in them are not DI fiilters. A DI filter is in a standard size 10" vertical canister and contains a cartridge inside the housing, most of which can be refilled these days. The flow comes from the bottom and passes up through the resin which is very tightly packed and holds 20 oz, so all water and resin come into contact with each other. They try to tell you a couple of horizontals are great since you get longer contact, bull.
Inline TDS meters are OK as an indicator but do not depend on them since they are not temperature compensated. You also canot test the tap water which is one of the most important readings youy can have, without it you don't have any idea how your membrane is performing.

Add up the cost of a 0.5 or 1.0 micron prefilter, a 0.6 micron chlorine block, or two blocks in your case, a add on full sized vertical DI with 20 oz of fresh name brand resin, a good TDS meter like the TDS-3 or COM-100, and all the other things like replacement name brand and ANSI approved housings, John Guest fittings, its not that great a deal anymore.

A few things you can do if you decide to keep it, which is foolish in my professional opinion, is remove the second carbon canister and replumb it at the tail end after the RO for a true 10" vertical DI, make sure it fills from the bottom and exits the top. Buy a refillable cartridge and some good resin and you now have a real DI filter. Trash the no name carbon which will be shot somewhere around 500 total gallons (thats only 100 good RO/DI gallons and 400 waste gallons remember) and get a good 20,000 gallon capacity Chlorine Guzzler. Get a good 1 micron or less , preferrable 0.2 or 0.5 microns so it does exactly what it is supposed to do, protect the down stream carbon block and membrane. A carbon block is made up of billions of tiny microscopic pores which adsorb the chlorine and volatile organics, if you don't protect it with a prefilter the same micron rating everything that passes through the prefilter has now collected on the carbon block which must stay clean to perform.
The 100 GPD GE membrane is close to equal to a Dow Filmtec 75 GPD. The GE does 100 GPD at 96-98% rejection rate at 77 degrees water temp and 65 psi (most homes in the US do not have 65 psi available at the tap). The Dow 75 does 75 GPD at the same 77 degrees and 96-98% rejection but at only 50 psi, both actually do 75 at 50 psi, 90 at 60 psi and 100 at 65 psi. FD or WG misrepresent the membrane by calling it a 110 GPD since aonly a small percentage of people will have 70+ psi to produce 110 GPD.

I am not blowing smoke here, this is all real. I am not sure where you saw good reviews unless it was on ebay or their own site but it does not get good reviews here on RC, its a low quality drinking water system and thats it. I don't get a dime out of this either way but I hate to see fellow reefers dissatisfied with something when for a fw more $$ up front you can have a good system that wil perform as advertised and last. Add up the costs of the upgrades/replacements and check back.

Tex, running a RO/DI directly to your sump can be risky and is usually discouraged. Its too easy for something to fail and flood your system with fresh water. Mosy of the people here use something to store RO/DI water in and then pump from there with some sort of auto topoff or liquid level system. When hooked direct you also have problems with TDS creep which can cause problems. Running for longer periods to a storage container reduces those effects.
I use the Spectrapure UPLC-II for my topoff system and it uses a peristaltic pump like the one in their Litermeter so its pretty fool proof.

[Fireworm]

Originally posted by texhorns98
Not to hijack your thread here, but I have a question about using an RO/DI filter in an ATO system. I'm installing a 20G sump in my cabinet and had an idea for running a line from my RO/DI (yet to be purchased) and attaching it to a float switch in the sump for a little ATO action. Am I crazy or will this work? The water line would run from the unit in the kitchen (most likely) under the floor in the crawl (would have to be insulated) and then up through a hole I drill in the floor (don't tell the wife) into the sump. Seems too easy and too good to be true.

Just be careful. There are alot of people who have done this, and there are a lot of people who have flooded their systems because of it.

[JCR's Reef]

Thanks AZ. Sorry you had to go into great detail but I go way to far into thought and over analyze everything. I understand what your saying. Too be honest I'm probably gonna keep it for now since the wife thinks its more for her than it is for me. Ill do alot more research for a New RO/DI purchase that will be setup stricly for the reef system. Thanks again.

Sorry Tex. Dont plumb it straight into your system. I thought you were saying the 20g was more like a resevoir for top off water. Everyone I know who has had RO water plumbed straight to the system directly has had it overflow one or two times. You can wipe out everything you have by doing it. If your system looses roughly 1gal of water a day, You could have a 5 gal bucket (to save space) with a automatic shutoff valve from your RO, then a float switch in your sump to turn on a powerhead in the bucket for your topoff. If you have the space I would use a trash can so you have plenty of water already made up incase of an emergency water change.

[brodden]

Originally posted by Fireworm
Just be careful. There are alot of people who have done this, and there are a lot of people who have flooded their systems because of it.

sorry about the double post. admin, you can delete this one...

[brodden]

Originally posted by Fireworm
Just be careful. There are alot of people who have done this, and there are a lot of people who have flooded their systems because of it.

Because of hijacking the thread?!