ich survivability

[kernyboy]

I left my tank for a few days (since Christmas eve) my tang has ich. I'm heading back home tomorrow... what's the likely hood that he's dead?

[agreeive?fish]

depends on his overall health before the ich

[kernyboy]

very healthy eating like nobodys business. happiest fish I've ever come across

[WaterKeeper]

The major problem with ich is that it is seldom a single attack. The spots you saw on Wednesday are now sitting in the substrate and multiplying. In a few weeks each cyst will release a hundred or more hungry tomites each looking for a host. The fish becomes reinfected even worse than the original attack and that is often why the fish dies from the disease.

[kernyboy]

crap. thanks water keeper. AS SOON as I get home, I'm taking all of my fish and putting them in a QT tank with some copper for a few weeks. Can I safely keep these fish in a 20gallon Long tank for 6-8 weeks?

Whats the smartest way to QT multiple fish?

I figure if i QT one at a time isnt going to help...since theyre going back in the same funky water. But will i run into over crowding in a 20L?


I read that after 8 weeks, the ICH dies since they cant find a host. I have a few fish that may prove problematic to catch (watchman goby, tiger goby). They are my smaller fish, and hide in the deepest of crevice in my rock work. Any advice on this front?

[jbird69]

from what I understand, ich is omnipresent. Most marine aquariums have it. Its when your fish get stressed that they lose their immunity to ich. Maybe your tang was sad you were leaving

I have had a few fish survive ich, I just suplimented their food with garlic. The fish of mine that have made it have been the ones who stayed strong and ate well thru the ich.

Quarentining is the best way to cure your fish of ich, but ist also possible to stress them badly and you may lose some in the process.

I am far from an expert on the matter, but I have done extensive research on ich when I had outbreaks.

Jay

[kernyboy]

ich sucks. I'm going to put development dollars towards a cure! what say you?

[WaterKeeper]

Jay,

Not so it has definite life stages and it must have a host fish or it cannot complete the cycle. It doesn't lie dormant until a fish arrives. When it breaks out to the cyst it has only hours to find a fish or the chain is broken. I think people relate it to brine shrimp eggs. When immersed not all hatch as a safeguard against the water supply only being temporary. To my knowledge ich doesn't have that type of safety net to fall back on. It can take a couple of months for the cysts to release tomites if the water is cold, so maybe that helps fuel the omnipresent myth.

Kerney,

Yes do all the fish or you will end up repeating it over and over again. There is another thread going around with someone trying to QT two large tangs in a 10 gallon. It has been suggested that they but a Rubbermaid storage been and use that for a larger QT. It is a good solution if you are worried.

[jbird69]

thanks for the clarification,

Are you suggesting that if you havnt added any new fish to your system for say 6 months, and during that time you have had no ich present, then your system is likely free of ich?
thanks

Jay

[WaterKeeper]

Originally posted by jbird69
Are you suggesting that if you havnt added any new fish to your system for say 6 months, and during that time you have had no ich present, then your system is likely free of ich?

That's it in a nutshell. The only way to re-introduce the ich then is to add an infected fish or some LR or substrate from an infected tank.

[castroantonio]

are you saying that the ich could be in Live Rock??

If I make a 100% water change. but I use the same live rock. The ick will be in the tank again??

If is yes. how I can kill the ick from the rock???

thank you.

[Philwd]

Originally posted by jbird69
thanks for the clarification,

Are you suggesting that if you havnt added any new fish to your system for say 6 months, and during that time you have had no ich present, then your system is likely free of ich?
thanks

Jay

Well you need you be careful when you think there is no ich around. It can be at sub clinical levels just in the fish's gills where you won't see it. I thought I was ich free for 3 years when a stress event triggered a massive outbreak that killed 4 fish in a matter of days. The sort of outbreak that usually needs 3-4 life cycles to ramp to.

[Philwd]

Originally posted by castroantonio
are you saying that the ich could be in Live Rock??

If I make a 100% water change. but I use the same live rock. The ick will be in the tank again??

If is yes. how I can kill the ick from the rock???

thank you.

When it drops off the fish it will attach to any substrate including rock, sand, snail shells etc. That why the recommended time to leave the tank fish free is 6-7 weeks. To allow all those attached cysts to hatch and starve.

[Freed]

My power was out for 5 days this past week. Temp dropped to 69 er so in the main tank and didn't come back up for a few days. Everything in the tank was "stressed". Now everything is back to normal and still no ich in the tank after years of being ich free. QT of all new incoming coral, fish, inverts, etc is the only way to make sure you are disease free. Ich always being present in a tank is a myth at best.

[castroantonio]

If I put a live rock in fresh water deep. do you think this could kill the parasite?

[castroantonio]

Freed:
what do you think about that the kill the parasie from the Live rock??

[castroantonio]

Freed:
what do you think about that the kill the parasite from the Live rock??

[Freed]

Without fish for at least 6 weeks, any ich cysts, etc that might be settled in the rock will die. Fresh water dip won't ensure that you kill any ich that might be in the rock.

[Philwd]

The only phase during which the ich is vulnerable is the free swimming phase. Dipping your rock in FW will kill all the fauna in the rock. Drying the rock will work but then it's no longer live.

[Philwd]

Originally posted by Freed
My power was out for 5 days this past week. Temp dropped to 69 er so in the main tank and didn't come back up for a few days. Everything in the tank was "stressed". Now everything is back to normal and still no ich in the tank after years of being ich free. QT of all new incoming coral, fish, inverts, etc is the only way to make sure you are disease free. Ich always being present in a tank is a myth at best.

Completely agree.

[kernyboy]

so in short...ich is everywhere! In yer rock, in yer fish, ich lives in a petri dish. I'd pay good money for an ich killer.

[discusone]

Waterkeeper,
Thanks for the response to the "omnipresent ich".No such thing.It is always introduced to the tank,as stated,through infected fish,or cysts on live rock/sand/substrate from an infected tank.
A new tank setup with liverock/livesand,from whatever source,and allowed to cycle for a 5 to 6 week period,at 81 degrees,is at the end of that timeframe ich free.
Then we get anxious for something to be in the tank,so we have something to look at,and see that great tang or brain at the LFS,and rather than QT,the new arrival,we put it in the tank.And,if the new addition is infected,you have now introduced ich into a previously ich free tank.
In the case of the tang,ich now has a food source on which to multiply,i.e,a fish host,and the cycle starts,only ending with the death of the tang,sooner or later.
If no other fish are introduced,the lifecycle of the ich is broken,and at the end of,say,4 weeks,the tank is once more ich free.

[texhorns98]

Originally posted by discusone
Waterkeeper,
Thanks for the response to the "omnipresent ich".No such thing.It is always introduced to the tank,as stated,through infected fish,or cysts on live rock/sand/substrate from an infected tank.
A new tank setup with liverock/livesand,from whatever source,and allowed to cycle for a 5 to 6 week period,at 81 degrees,is at the end of that timeframe ich free.
Then we get anxious for something to be in the tank,so we have something to look at,and see that great tang or brain at the LFS,and rather than QT,the new arrival,we put it in the tank.And,if the new addition is infected,you have now introduced ich into a previously ich free tank.
In the case of the tang,ich now has a food source on which to multiply,i.e,a fish host,and the cycle starts,only ending with the death of the tang,sooner or later.
If no other fish are introduced,the lifecycle of the ich is broken,and at the end of,say,4 weeks,the tank is once more ich free.

So, I've had a few outbreaks of some white spots here and there. They usually go away after a day or two. What can someone like me do to solve things? Hope that the chain gets broken somehow and not put anything new in for 6 weeks after I see the last spots? If I go to add some LR later, I need to QT it first? Seems like adding base rock would be a better idea. I definitely need more rock in the future. QT a coral too? What about light in the QT tank?

[WaterKeeper]

With LR I've always used separate curing vats. It usually takes LR about 4 weeks to cure so that pretty much serves the same purpose as a QT period. In the past I never bothered with corals but after reading so many posts on coral diseases and mysterious cases of ich I do that now.

[Freed]

I QT all corals, zoas, fish, inverts, etc and have had no mysterious outbreaks of ich or any other disease/pests. Am I being overly cautious? NO!! Ich or any other disease can be in the water or hitching a ride in the crooks of a piece of LR or stuck to a coral skeleton. I read a new horror story of whole herds of fish being killed by unusual outbreaks of ich/velvet or new pests like AEFW or monti eating nudis or zoa eating spiders, etc at least a few times a week here on RC. I have never had any problems in my main tank since QT'ing everything that goes in.