New Member with 29G Insta-Reef: Hello and a few questions

[Bondrake]

Hello All,

I had considered entering this hobby with a nano for the last couple of months and finally jumped on the opportunity last week when I got DarkFORCE's custom 29G biocube setup. Details and a link to his build thread are here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1545383 I have been reading a lot and lurking forums, so I'm not entirely ignorant now (just mainly ignorant). I'm in Ahwatukee.

The gist
Tank: 29G Biocube
Lighting: 2x32w CF actinics w/o reflectors and 1x150w MH (12K Reeflux, Ballastwise dxe150hid1 ballast)
Skimmer: Euroreef ES5-3 w/ gate valve mod and Sedra 3500
Sump/Fuge: 19G DIY, failing Gen-X GX-2400 sump pump (I'm going to get a Mag-Drive 9.5 to replace it. Considering head load, I think I'll be able to get close to the 600GPH my CS90 overflow is rated for. Is it too much? should I get the Mag-Drive 7 instead?)
Bio Filtration: 70 lbs. mature LR, 40 lbs. live sand, chaeto in fuge
Management: ReefKeeper 2

I've got the ReefKeeper 2 running the actinics 12 hours and the MH 6 hours, fuge light (60W incandescent flood) on 24x7.

I have Salifert test kits and pH calibration fluid on order, so I will update with some water parameters when I get them. Right now I just have some of those dip strips. They are okay for making sure you're not wildly off, but not useful for accurate measures.

The tank had a bit of a hair algae and red slime problem when I picked it up, so I did some rock-scrubbing before setting it back up, but the move-induced cycling and small cleanup crew (only a handful of hermits and snails) have left the algae re-exploding. I also mixed in 20 lbs of new live sand (he had 20 lbs, so there's 40 lbs total now) before setting up, so I'm sure the sand needs to mature.

I'd like to curb the algae problem while the tank cycles, so hoping I might be able to get some help here. I'm using RO/DI water and will be doing weekly 25% changes until it stabilizes. I've heard that raising magnesium levels will impede hair algae, but I'd prefer to just go the route of a good cleanup crew.

For the permanent crew, I was looking at getting about 20 more hermits and 20 more snails along with a couple of green emerald crabs and maybe another sand-sifting cucumber (I have one that's about 2" right now). I have a 3-4" sand bed now, so I need a good sifting crew. Does anyone have any of these to spare or have any suggestions for places to get them either locally or online? I am considering http://www.reefscavengers.com/

For the short-term, I'm wondering if anyone here has a Hairy Sea Hare I could borrow to "mow the lawn". Anyone out there have one of these hair algae munchers? http://reefscavengers.com/hairyseahare.html

Another issue: Heat! I have the RK2 running a sump fan when the water temperature gets over 79 degrees, but even with that I find that a few hours w/ the MH on causes the temperature to rise to 81-83 degrees (I have since set it up to turn the MH off when the water temperature gets over 81.5). This is with the ambient temperature around 70-73 degrees. What temperature range do most of you try to keep your tanks at? Are any of you able to get away with not using a chiller? It's winter and I can't keep it cool!

Thanks for any help! I'll try to get some pics of the setup soon, but DarkFORCE has a lot of pics in his threads if you're curious.

[Bondrake]

Oh, I leave for the weekend frequently, so I'm getting some more automation to leave the system hands-off for a few days at a time.

I have ordered a DIY auto top-off kit from bulkreefsupply: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Auto-T...duct_info.html

I am planning to buy a Hydor Ekomixo auto-feeder as well: http://www.bigalsonline.com/edealinv...881&scId=42881

Does anyone have experience with these? What do you think of them?

I'm also considering some kind of dosing system so I can feed corals and supplement. Could anyone recommend a cheap or DIY setup that would be appropriate for my tank?

Lots of questions, I know. Thanks again.

[Fenderguy13]

Your algae problems could be caused by several things. Make sure you check for phosphates in your tank, as well as high nitrate levels.

It is awesome that you are using RO/DI water, but make sure that the RO/DI water that you are using is actually filtering out nitrates and phosphates. If you are getting your water from one of those water and ice places or from someones filter, they may be using old filter pads which will not do the job properly.

How long are you running your lights for? Too much lighting could definately cause algae growth. You may also need to replace your bulbs if they are old.


I wouldn't necessarily do 25% water changes each week either, seeing as how you will completely replace your water with new, uncycled water in a month.

I may have some cerith snails that i could spare for you if you are interested. Hopefully this info helps, and we will see what other reefers have to say about this. Good luck to you!

[Bondrake]

Originally posted by Fenderguy13
Your algae problems could be caused by several things. Make sure you check for phosphates in your tank, as well as high nitrate levels.

It is awesome that you are using RO/DI water, but make sure that the RO/DI water that you are using is actually filtering out nitrates and phosphates. If you are getting your water from one of those water and ice places or from someones filter, they may be using old filter pads which will not do the job properly.

How long are you running your lights for? Too much lighting could definately cause algae growth. You may also need to replace your bulbs if they are old.


I wouldn't necessarily do 25% water changes each week either, seeing as how you will completely replace your water with new, uncycled water in a month.

I may have some cerith snails that i could spare for you if you are interested. Hopefully this info helps, and we will see what other reefers have to say about this. Good luck to you!

Yeah, I'm not sure about the Nitrates/Phosphates. I ordered the 75GPD 5-stage plus RO/DI from BRS (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI-...duct_info.html), but I filled and am topping off with Bashas' jugged RO/DI until I get that setup. Judging by the test strips, Nitrates are around 10 mg/L, but I have no idea what the Phosphates are at. I forgot to mention above that I'm running a tee to a carbon canister from the sump pump, so I'm sure that is helping w/ the nitrates (along w/ the chaeto ball). I'm thinking about dropping a sock full of GFO in the bubble-trap for phosphates. Would that be effective?

For lighting, I'm running the actinics 12 hours and the MH 6 hours. All the bulbs were new 3 months ago.

Thanks a bunch for offering the ceriths! Will PM for details.

[GustavoAZ]

If you don't have any fish or corals I would raise the mag and cut the lights. You need to starve the algae.

You'll end up getting a huge clean up crew that I'll bet doesn't touch the alage you want them to. Then they will die off after they eat what they will and you'll have more excess nitrates in the tank.

Treat the source of the problem instead of mowing the lawn, because thats all you'll do, cut it, not keep it from growing.


I don't know what your keeping in your tank but the temps you mentioned are nothing to worry about IMO.

Also I would avoid anything that just sifts sand, it will run out of food quickly in that size of a tank. You would be better off getting an orange spot/diamond goby for that job. The one I had sifted all day and eat what ever it good including silverslides and pellets. Easy to keep alive, just make sure your rock is on the bottom of the tank not just laying on the sand. They like to dig tunnels under rock and you don't want any landslides going on.

[Frank AZ]

I've been fighting algae off/on again for a couple of months - what I've been doing is just doing weekly water changes (with ro/di water from az sb)

The regular cleaning and water changes helps.

Of course - more of a cleanup crew would probably help me. Right now I only have 3 snails and 4 hermit crabs. I did order a nice large set from the CCritters group purchase.

[Bondrake]

Originally posted by GustavoAZ
If you don't have any fish or corals I would raise the mag and cut the lights. You need to starve the algae.

You'll end up getting a huge clean up crew that I'll bet doesn't touch the alage you want them to. Then they will die off after they eat what they will and you'll have more excess nitrates in the tank.

Treat the source of the problem instead of mowing the lawn, because thats all you'll do, cut it, not keep it from growing.


I don't know what your keeping in your tank but the temps you mentioned are nothing to worry about IMO.

Also I would avoid anything that just sifts sand, it will run out of food quickly in that size of a tank. You would be better off getting an orange spot/diamond goby for that job. The one I had sifted all day and eat what ever it good including silverslides and pellets. Easy to keep alive, just make sure your rock is on the bottom of the tank not just laying on the sand. They like to dig tunnels under rock and you don't want any landslides going on.

I have lots of corals and an RBTA, so can't cut the lighting out. This was a full tank move.

I am working on the problem, but most of that is just waiting for it to re-cycle. Otherwise, without running another canister, is there a good way to add GFO (in a sock wedged in the sump's bubble-wall, for example)?

For now though there's enough algae in the tank that I'm worried about it starving the corals. Judging stocking guidelines I've seen, I need more algae-eaters and scavengers. The most ravenous hair-algae eaters I know of are the hairy sea hares. They are supposed to readily eat chaeto as well, so I can feed it bits from the fuge if the tank is clean.

I have a yellow watchman goby, so I doubt it would be a good idea to add another goby. The rocks are situated on the bottom of the aquarium though.

[Frank AZ]

One other thing I do is when doing the water change - I use a denture brush to scrub the rock - and have a siphon hose right at the tip so suck out what I'm scrubbing.

Also - get your water from AZ Seabottom. the RODI is 30cents / gallon - and I'm sure the Bashas water isn't helping. The water the machines sell is only RO (and who knows how their filter maintinence is)

[KarlBob]

Welcome to FRAG. Come on out to the next meeting on your side of town. Meetings are held in Scottsdale and Surprise, on a schedule that you can find in a sticky post at the top of this forum. If there's any room at all in your tank for more corals, come join us at the PROP auction. This is a great group of people, and if you need anything to help get you started, someone will probably be able to bring it to a meeting.

Originally posted by Bondrake
Another issue: Heat! I have the RK2 running a sump fan when the water temperature gets over 79 degrees, but even with that I find that a few hours w/ the MH on causes the temperature to rise to 81-83 degrees (I have since set it up to turn the MH off when the water temperature gets over 81.5). This is with the ambient temperature around 70-73 degrees. What temperature range do most of you try to keep your tanks at? Are any of you able to get away with not using a chiller? It's winter and I can't keep it cool!

I suspect that most people in Arizona who run metal halides over a "closed" tank (with a hood or an enclosed fixture), and many who suspend metal halides over an open tank, end up using large fans or a chiller to control heat. I run T5HO lights, and I haven't had too many problems with heat. Right now my house is also staying in the 70-73F range, and my heaters are running off and on to maintain an 80F temperature in my tanks.

As GustavoAZ mentioned above, sand sifting creatures often consume their entire food supply in relatively small tanks, then starve. The companies that sell "clean-up crew packages" often dramatically over-estimate the number of snails and hermit crabs needed to handle detritus in any given size of tank. Many people on RC do not recommend having even one cucumber, because they can release toxic chemicals when they're startled or injured, and after they die. I certainly wouldn't recommend a second cucumber in a 29 gallon tank.

I know the advice on algae control is hard to hear, because I've heard the same things. There are plenty of companies out there promising that their critter or chemical is a quick, permanent fix for algae, but there doesn't seem to be any substitute for cutting off the algae's food supply. A refugium is generally recommended to help consume some of the nutrients that would otherwise fuel algae growth, but some people will tell you that the biggest benefit of a refugium comes from the copepods and amphipods that grow there, not the competition between chaetomorpha and hair algae for food.

[Bondrake]

Originally posted by KarlBob
Welcome to FRAG. Come on out to the next meeting on your side of town. ...

Thanks for the welcome. I will try to make it out. I'm usually out of town on weekends, but hopefully that will change around May.

... I suspect that most people in Arizona who run metal halides over a "closed" tank (with a hood or an enclosed fixture), and many who suspend metal halides over an open tank, end up using large fans or a chiller to control heat. ...

I suppose I shouldn't be terribly surprised. I'll be on the eye out for used 1/13 - 1/10HP chillers on here (anyone selling one?)

... As GustavoAZ mentioned above, sand sifting creatures often consume their entire food supply in relatively small tanks, then starve. The companies that sell "clean-up crew packages" often dramatically over-estimate the number of snails and hermit crabs needed to handle detritus in any given size of tank. Many people on RC do not recommend having even one cucumber, because they can release toxic chemicals when they're startled or injured, and after they die. I certainly wouldn't recommend a second cucumber in a 29 gallon tank. ...

I didn't know that about the cucumbers. Interesting. The one I have now was a stowaway on one of the live rocks.

... I know the advice on algae control is hard to hear, because I've heard the same things. There are plenty of companies out there promising that their critter or chemical is a quick, permanent fix for algae, but there doesn't seem to be any substitute for cutting off the algae's food supply. A refugium is generally recommended to help consume some of the nutrients that would otherwise fuel algae growth, but some people will tell you that the biggest benefit of a refugium comes from the copepods and amphipods that grow there, not the competition between chaetomorpha and hair algae for food.

Yeah, I understand most of the solution is just keeping nitrates, phosphates, and silicates out of the water and expect to have that under control soon. I wound up getting a hairy sea hare for the short term issue though. I plan to feed it chaeto from the fuge when the algae in the tank dies down, but for now it is feasting:

[Bondrake]

Here's a FTS:

[Bondrake]

I ordered a Quiet One 4000 pump to replace my sump pump instead of the Mag-Drive 9.5. The head power and flow of the Q14000 looks like it's slightly more than the Mag-Drive 7 and it only uses 50 watts as opposed to the 93 watts of the Mag 9.5 or the 70 watts of the Mag 7. It was also $10 cheaper than the Mag 9.5 and I've heard that the Mags use stainless steel screws instead of nylon. Not sure about the Quiet One... does anyone have experience with it? I will post my impression when I get it.

[30reef]

You have a very good looking tank. I do not see that you have an algae problem, yet. What I think I see is Bryopsis, which if left alone, will cover all of your live rock. In such a small tank, I would remove the one or two rocks that have it growing and discard them altogether, then replace with fresh, cured live rock. That shouldn't be a very big deal at all. I would hesitate raising your mag levels without trying some other methods first, high mag is not a cure-all for algae control, but can be usefull for the control of specific types macroalgae, Bryopsis IS one of them though. It is usually not a good idea to disturb a Bryopsis clump, as that can cause the plant to release spores which will colonize other areas of the tank. Not many fish will consume it either, and lettuce nudis are hit and miss.

There are so many things you can do to keep the nutrient levels to a minimun, I don't think I could list all of them at one sitting. Using quality water has already been mentioned and is often taken for granted. Overfeeding is also a big contributor (duh!). You can use some GFO to eliminate phosphate (not too much too fast) which will allow you longer glass cleaning intervals, sometimes a few weeks or more. Just remember that algae is a normal part of a healthy reef and when taken away, some of your diversity will be lost also.

QuietOne pumps do a decent job of pumping water, but they need frequent vinegar soaks to keep them running trouble free. The biggest problem with them is they sometimes will not restart after a power outage. If it is not too late to change your order, an OceanRunner is a better pump for about the same money.

Hope my opinions/experiences have helped a little.

Keith