400w SE Radium V T5

121 · 01/13/2009, 07:32 PM

Which would you prefer?

A single 400w Radium SE bulb in a Luminarc lll reflector with an e ballast or a set of T5 tubes?

How many T5 tubes would it take to match the Radium setup to get the same visual effect and how many watts per tube would it take?

CleveYank · 01/13/2009, 07:50 PM

My bet is that it would take an aweful lot of t5 tubes to match a 400 watt of anything. Even a 20K radium which has low PAR numbers for a 400 watter since it's more blue, but still. Any 400 watt MH has alot of output. Check Sanjays site for your bulb and then find the average par and lumen output numbers for HO and overdriven T5 and do some math. Might be wrong, but it might take more t5's than you can fit above your tank.

nu2reefva · 01/13/2009, 10:45 PM

actually radiums put out way more par but i would look into the 250 radiums because they are actually hqi's and if overdriven properly they put out more par than the 400 watt versions they make.

Nanook · 01/13/2009, 11:44 PM

This thread has been moved to the current forum.

DT's_Reef · 01/14/2009, 12:45 AM

I use a 400w Radium driven by a Galaxy ballast and seriously debated going the T5 route instead, but didn't like how close T5's are to the water surface, versus being able to have the Radium 15" off the water using a single bulb to light my 38x26x20 rimless tank.

I've seen some T5 set-ups over rimless tanks and it kind of ruins the effect to a degree. A rimless tank shouldn't look like it has a lid about to come down on it.

I got off topic a bit, but not sure what kind of set-up you have.

Todd March · 01/14/2009, 02:10 AM

For the first foot of water, the 400W Radium is probably going to win the PARS number games, but after that the competition might get closer... And toward the sandbed or bottom of the tank, you might be surprised at how close the competition gets (all of this is with T5's in excellent reflectors mind you)... The even and spread out T5 light penetrates very well...

I would say to get as even as possible, you are talking about 8-10 HO T5 tubes

magnoliarichj · 01/14/2009, 08:07 AM

i think what people forget here is that in 6 months the MH will only be worth 1/2 the output. meaning if the MH puts out 1000 par at the surface in 6 months it will we closer to 5-600 par at the surface... on a t5 setu if you only get 600 par at the surface in 6 months you get 575 par at the surface.

121 · 01/14/2009, 06:35 PM

How long would 8 to 10 T5 tubes last in comparison?

Would it be more cost effective to replace one Radum bulb every 6 months?

DT's_Reef

My future set up will be rimless and I don't want a large row of T5 tubes and reflectors covering it up either.

Access to the tank will be alot easier with a Luminarc lll.

What made you debate the T5 route over a 400w Radium?

magnoliarichj · 01/14/2009, 06:53 PM

t5 loose 10 percent in 12 months of use give or take. like an ati fixture looks nice etc and how long is your tank... if its a 48" tank you might want to think about a 36" light.... a lot of light is spilled out using long t5 fixtures.... also t5ho is 100 lumens a watt MH is the same but only at a 10k light range. not so with t5ho.

Todd March · 01/14/2009, 09:15 PM

The biggest question you need to ask yourself is how much color do you want to bring out in your corals? Are you going to be keeping more high end "designer corals", with intense and rich and often contrasting colors? If so, T5's will provide better and richer color, with the right selection of bulbs (lots of blue)...

For years I ran Radiums on HQI, then Phoenix's, both with VHO and blue T5 supplementation, and I thought they were great for color, but now that I have run all quality T5's, I see these halides were not the bestâ€”the high in blue T5's offer much richer and more "day-glo" colors, period...

Like DT, I didn't want a big fixture over my new rimless tank, but I was too curious about T5's, with too many prominent European reefers raving and changing over to them (and they don't fool around in Europe). Well, I see now whyâ€”the colors are just better with T5's. Period. For this color, I can deal with what very well could be called a floating lid over my tank.

Because in the end, I spend a fortune on nice frags, and I go to all the expense, and the work, for the color of corals, not for how perfect and cool my equipment looksâ€”though this surely can be a factor, don't get me wrong. But in the end, it's about colors for me...

If someone tells you this is BS, and that you can get the same intense coloration from halides as well, make sure that like me, they have run both lighting systems, with many different combinations of bulbs in both T5's and halides, and are qualified to make such a statement backed with real world experience...

DT's_Reef · 01/14/2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 121
How long would 8 to 10 T5 tubes last in comparison?

Would it be more cost effective to replace one Radum bulb every 6 months?

DT's_Reef

My future set up will be rimless and I don't want a large row of T5 tubes and reflectors covering it up either.

Access to the tank will be alot easier with a Luminarc lll.

What made you debate the T5 route over a 400w Radium?

I think Todd summed it up pretty well, and I did want to use T5's....but the look of the equipment was important to me, and I know Radiums do a really nice job of coral coloration.

I considered T5's because a few years back, a ballast went out in my halides and I needed to use temporary light while the new ballast was being shipped to me. Long story short, this ended up being a couple months, and despite only using 4x39w bulbs on my 4 foot tank....some of my SPS developed some nice colors pretty fast! I've seen others use T5's with some excellent results. And, you can really customize to a high degree, coloration of the light and how the corals look. Halides that are really blue wash a lot of other colors out. The Radium looks nice but isn't my ideal look color-wise. However, the corals do well, they look great, and I get to have a good amount of space over my rimless tank.

Todd March · 01/14/2009, 10:58 PM

Another thing to consider too is that many experience the lighting, or the "pastel" effect with T5 lighting... The jury is still out as to what is going on here, it may be water quality related or water quality and T5 togetherâ€”put the right combination together and corals lighten... This has not been an issue for me, though since my tank is Zeo, and I run T5's, it's something that I constantly watch for; I like my rich "American Coral" colors, and don't want any lightening...

Believe or not I still consider going back to halides ocasionally (T5 light is very flat and even, and NOT rich like halide lighting), and if I did there would only be one bulb for meâ€”the 400W Aqua Connect. This bulb to me is the finest halide around, with the intensity of many 10K's, plenty of blue, and even an actinic spikeâ€”practically the only blue halide around that does have a 420nm UV spike. The 400W Aqua Connect, when combined with a few actinics (though it can hold on it's own too), is the closest halide I have seen to providing the intense coloration T5 tanks seem to show. If you can get over it's $140 price tag, I really do again state with no reservations that it's easily the best of the "big boys" 400W blue halides...

nozleman · 01/14/2009, 11:23 PM

Hey Todd M. Is the aquaconnect whiter or bluer than the radiums??? Thanks In advance! I have an HQI ballast.

Nanook · 01/14/2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nozleman
Hey Todd M. Is the aquaconnect whiter or bluer than the radiums??? Thanks In advance! I have an HQI ballast.

Whiter, although it does have a higher spike in the 420nm range.

DT's_Reef · 01/14/2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nozleman
Hey Todd M. Is the aquaconnect whiter or bluer than the radiums??? Thanks In advance! I have an HQI ballast.

Same question. Also, I thought the Geisemann 13k/14.5k bulb have a 420 spike....just going by memory. I really like those bulbs.

Todd March · 01/14/2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nozleman
Hey Todd M. Is the aquaconnect whiter or bluer than the radiums??? Thanks In advance! I have an HQI ballast.

Tad bluer than the 400W Radium on HQI, probably even a little bit bluer more than the Radium on Galaxy, but yet the colors are richer and pop more with the AC. Colors on the Radium are nice and bright and "color friendly", whereas with the AC they start to approach "day glo". HERE is a thread with some pics of the Aqua Connect that are very accurate.

Remember too that low nutrients and selecting corals with genetic capabilities for rich colors are the real secret to a colorful tank...

DT's_Reef · 01/14/2009, 11:37 PM

Eh....if the 400w AQ is more blue than the Radium, then dunno if I could handle that. The Radium is about as blue as I can stand, while still genuinely liking the look of the tank.

Todd March · 01/14/2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DT's_Reef
Same question. Also, I thought the Geisemann 13k/14.5k bulb have a 420 spike....just going by memory. I really like those bulbs.

Yeah, Darin, they have a nice actinic spike, but they are far from what I would call a blue bulb...! I like the natural and no-yellow white color of the G-mann 14.5K/Ushio 14K, but to me they are still what I would categorize as a white bulb. To me they need blue supplementation....

Todd March · 01/14/2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DT's_Reef
Eh....if the 400w AQ is more blue than the Radium, then dunno if I could handle that. The Radium is about as blue as I can stand, while still genuinely liking the look of the tank.

Not much bluer, just a tad... Check out those pics I linked to on zeo.com. They are really very accurate. The colors with the AC can be too rich for those that like a more natural look, and same can be said for lots of blue and pink based T5's as well. These are not the right lighting for those that like a more natural white look. For those that really like white, the G-mann 14.5/Ushio 14K is a nice choice as it's not too blue at all, and not too yellow at all... Just about the perfect white light (and probably a true 14K).

To my eye the AC is about as blue as it's DE counterpart, the Phoenix, but with richer colors and more actinic effect.... These bulbsâ€”the AC's and the Phoenixâ€”are all labeled as 14K, but that's really very silly, as they are all very much blue 20K bulbs...

DT's_Reef · 01/14/2009, 11:46 PM

I did take a peek at the zeo tank with the AC bulb....wow, those are some seriously colored corals!

My problem is that I like colors like that.....but then I also like the natural white look.

I'm sure at some point I'll try a Giesemann 14.5k bulb on my current set up as I really liked the white color.

But.....if my corals are rockin' on the 400w Radium, then I'm not going to fix what isn't broke.

Btw, I need to get me some elite frags!

Todd March · 01/15/2009, 12:04 AM

I think, Darin, that's why the Radiums are so popularâ€”on HQI or Galaxy they really offer the nicest balance around of good and bright and accurate color without being too blue, paricularly the 400W Radium...

But for many of us that like intense "crayola crayon" colors (or like me that started with 4000K halide bulbs 20 years ago, and despise anything too yellow-white), bulbs like the Blue+ T5's, or the Aqua Connects, really offer incredible color punch for bright cutting edge colors. But I can really see where it's not for everyone... I had an experienced reefer friend over not too long ago, and he only runs 10K halides over his 700g system, and likes things very natural, and he looked at my tank and said, "Christ, it looks like a cartoon!" Lol....!

DT's_Reef · 01/15/2009, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Todd March
(snip)... I had an experienced reefer friend over not too long ago, and he only runs 10K halides over his 700g system, and likes things very natural, and he looked at my tank and said, "Christ, it looks like a cartoon!" Lol....!

Lol, I totally know what you mean.

orangekush4 · 01/15/2009, 12:18 AM

T5's ain't even in the same class as a Radium 400. I sell T5 and HID lighting all day and there is no way T5 can put out more light on the sand bed then a 400 Radium. I got 138 PPFD on a lumatik with lumanmax. IMO T5 don't come close to the colors Radium puts out. Allot of European reefers are changing T5 at 6 months. By the time you get the combo you want with the T5, you already have spent some good $. Look into the Aquamaxx 14K bulbs they are nice.

orangekush4 · 01/15/2009, 12:21 AM

When you go Radium you will never go back.

OnlyCrimson · 01/15/2009, 12:26 AM

The t5's can never look like the radiums because the light is so much different. Point source just has a different look.

01/13/2009, 07:32 PM	#1
121 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 476	400w SE Radium V T5 Which would you prefer? A single 400w Radium SE bulb in a Luminarc lll reflector with an e ballast or a set of T5 tubes? How many T5 tubes would it take to match the Radium setup to get the same visual effect and how many watts per tube would it take?

01/13/2009, 10:45 PM	#3
nu2reefva Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Chesapeake, Virginia Posts: 427	actually radiums put out way more par but i would look into the 250 radiums because they are actually hqi's and if overdriven properly they put out more par than the 400 watt versions they make. __________________ "Dont you just love the smell of Acro in the Morning!" Current Tank Info: 120, ATB 840, LMIII 2-Part baby, 250 watt 20k radiums on new Ice Cap, Lumenbright III, VHO actinics, Nano Wavebox, Dart Closed Loop with OM 4 Way, Eheim Return, 100Lbs of Marshal Rock, 150Lbs of Sand

01/13/2009, 11:44 PM	#4
Nanook Ancient Eskimo Legend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 41,852 Blog Entries: 11	This thread has been moved to the current forum. __________________ The wind blew, the chit flew, and then they came two by two. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Current Tank Info: 375g Tanganyikan Tank & 470g mixed reef

01/14/2009, 12:45 AM	#5
DT's_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 3,083	I use a 400w Radium driven by a Galaxy ballast and seriously debated going the T5 route instead, but didn't like how close T5's are to the water surface, versus being able to have the Radium 15" off the water using a single bulb to light my 38x26x20 rimless tank. I've seen some T5 set-ups over rimless tanks and it kind of ruins the effect to a degree. A rimless tank shouldn't look like it has a lid about to come down on it. I got off topic a bit, but not sure what kind of set-up you have. __________________ 85g starphire system, 38"x26"x20", 250w Radium SE + Galaxy Ballast + Lumenmax Elite reflector, Tunze Nano Wave Box, 2 Tunze Nano Streams, Profilux dosing system (2-part + vodka), ATB 840 Skimmer, Eheim 1262 return pump.

01/14/2009, 02:10 AM	#6
Todd March Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 3,684	For the first foot of water, the 400W Radium is probably going to win the PARS number games, but after that the competition might get closer... And toward the sandbed or bottom of the tank, you might be surprised at how close the competition gets (all of this is with T5's in excellent reflectors mind you)... The even and spread out T5 light penetrates very well... I would say to get as even as possible, you are talking about 8-10 HO T5 tubes __________________ My hobby? I glue animals to rocks... Current Tank Info: Rimless Starfire 85g SPS (36" x 26" x 21"): ATI Powermodule 10 x 39W, ATB Small Cone, RK2, Vortech MP40W, 6025 Stream modded, MAG 9.5 return, Balling

01/13/2009, 07:50 PM	#2
CleveYank 20 Years and Over Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 3,052	My bet is that it would take an aweful lot of t5 tubes to match a 400 watt of anything. Even a 20K radium which has low PAR numbers for a 400 watter since it's more blue, but still. Any 400 watt MH has alot of output. Check Sanjays site for your bulb and then find the average par and lumen output numbers for HO and overdriven T5 and do some math. Might be wrong, but it might take more t5's than you can fit above your tank.

01/14/2009, 08:07 AM	#7
magnoliarichj Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: florida west coast Posts: 1,455	i think what people forget here is that in 6 months the MH will only be worth 1/2 the output. meaning if the MH puts out 1000 par at the surface in 6 months it will we closer to 5-600 par at the surface... on a t5 setu if you only get 600 par at the surface in 6 months you get 575 par at the surface.

01/14/2009, 06:35 PM	#8
121 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 476	How long would 8 to 10 T5 tubes last in comparison? Would it be more cost effective to replace one Radum bulb every 6 months? DT's_Reef My future set up will be rimless and I don't want a large row of T5 tubes and reflectors covering it up either. Access to the tank will be alot easier with a Luminarc lll. What made you debate the T5 route over a 400w Radium?

01/14/2009, 06:53 PM	#9
magnoliarichj Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: florida west coast Posts: 1,455	t5 loose 10 percent in 12 months of use give or take. like an ati fixture looks nice etc and how long is your tank... if its a 48" tank you might want to think about a 36" light.... a lot of light is spilled out using long t5 fixtures.... also t5ho is 100 lumens a watt MH is the same but only at a 10k light range. not so with t5ho.

01/14/2009, 09:15 PM	#10
Todd March Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 3,684	The biggest question you need to ask yourself is how much color do you want to bring out in your corals? Are you going to be keeping more high end "designer corals", with intense and rich and often contrasting colors? If so, T5's will provide better and richer color, with the right selection of bulbs (lots of blue)... For years I ran Radiums on HQI, then Phoenix's, both with VHO and blue T5 supplementation, and I thought they were great for color, but now that I have run all quality T5's, I see these halides were not the bestâ€”the high in blue T5's offer much richer and more "day-glo" colors, period... Like DT, I didn't want a big fixture over my new rimless tank, but I was too curious about T5's, with too many prominent European reefers raving and changing over to them (and they don't fool around in Europe). Well, I see now whyâ€”the colors are just better with T5's. Period. For this color, I can deal with what very well could be called a floating lid over my tank. Because in the end, I spend a fortune on nice frags, and I go to all the expense, and the work, for the color of corals, not for how perfect and cool my equipment looksâ€”though this surely can be a factor, don't get me wrong. But in the end, it's about colors for me... If someone tells you this is BS, and that you can get the same intense coloration from halides as well, make sure that like me, they have run both lighting systems, with many different combinations of bulbs in both T5's and halides, and are qualified to make such a statement backed with real world experience... __________________ My hobby? I glue animals to rocks... Current Tank Info: Rimless Starfire 85g SPS (36" x 26" x 21"): ATI Powermodule 10 x 39W, ATB Small Cone, RK2, Vortech MP40W, 6025 Stream modded, MAG 9.5 return, Balling

01/14/2009, 10:58 PM	#12
Todd March Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 3,684	Another thing to consider too is that many experience the lighting, or the "pastel" effect with T5 lighting... The jury is still out as to what is going on here, it may be water quality related or water quality and T5 togetherâ€”put the right combination together and corals lighten... This has not been an issue for me, though since my tank is Zeo, and I run T5's, it's something that I constantly watch for; I like my rich "American Coral" colors, and don't want any lightening... Believe or not I still consider going back to halides ocasionally (T5 light is very flat and even, and NOT rich like halide lighting), and if I did there would only be one bulb for meâ€”the 400W Aqua Connect. This bulb to me is the finest halide around, with the intensity of many 10K's, plenty of blue, and even an actinic spikeâ€”practically the only blue halide around that does have a 420nm UV spike. The 400W Aqua Connect, when combined with a few actinics (though it can hold on it's own too), is the closest halide I have seen to providing the intense coloration T5 tanks seem to show. If you can get over it's $140 price tag, I really do again state with no reservations that it's easily the best of the "big boys" 400W blue halides... __________________ My hobby? I glue animals to rocks... Current Tank Info: Rimless Starfire 85g SPS (36" x 26" x 21"): ATI Powermodule 10 x 39W, ATB Small Cone, RK2, Vortech MP40W, 6025 Stream modded, MAG 9.5 return, Balling

01/14/2009, 11:23 PM	#13
nozleman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Camarillo, ca Posts: 208	Hey Todd M. Is the aquaconnect whiter or bluer than the radiums??? Thanks In advance! I have an HQI ballast.

01/14/2009, 11:37 PM	#17
DT's_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 3,083	Eh....if the 400w AQ is more blue than the Radium, then dunno if I could handle that. The Radium is about as blue as I can stand, while still genuinely liking the look of the tank. __________________ 85g starphire system, 38"x26"x20", 250w Radium SE + Galaxy Ballast + Lumenmax Elite reflector, Tunze Nano Wave Box, 2 Tunze Nano Streams, Profilux dosing system (2-part + vodka), ATB 840 Skimmer, Eheim 1262 return pump.

01/14/2009, 11:46 PM	#20
DT's_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 3,083	I did take a peek at the zeo tank with the AC bulb....wow, those are some seriously colored corals! My problem is that I like colors like that.....but then I also like the natural white look. I'm sure at some point I'll try a Giesemann 14.5k bulb on my current set up as I really liked the white color. But.....if my corals are rockin' on the 400w Radium, then I'm not going to fix what isn't broke. Btw, I need to get me some elite frags! __________________ 85g starphire system, 38"x26"x20", 250w Radium SE + Galaxy Ballast + Lumenmax Elite reflector, Tunze Nano Wave Box, 2 Tunze Nano Streams, Profilux dosing system (2-part + vodka), ATB 840 Skimmer, Eheim 1262 return pump.

01/15/2009, 12:04 AM	#21
Todd March Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 3,684	I think, Darin, that's why the Radiums are so popularâ€”on HQI or Galaxy they really offer the nicest balance around of good and bright and accurate color without being too blue, paricularly the 400W Radium... But for many of us that like intense "crayola crayon" colors (or like me that started with 4000K halide bulbs 20 years ago, and despise anything too yellow-white), bulbs like the Blue+ T5's, or the Aqua Connects, really offer incredible color punch for bright cutting edge colors. But I can really see where it's not for everyone... I had an experienced reefer friend over not too long ago, and he only runs 10K halides over his 700g system, and likes things very natural, and he looked at my tank and said, "Christ, it looks like a cartoon!" Lol....! __________________ My hobby? I glue animals to rocks... Current Tank Info: Rimless Starfire 85g SPS (36" x 26" x 21"): ATI Powermodule 10 x 39W, ATB Small Cone, RK2, Vortech MP40W, 6025 Stream modded, MAG 9.5 return, Balling

01/15/2009, 12:18 AM	#23
orangekush4 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 367	T5's ain't even in the same class as a Radium 400. I sell T5 and HID lighting all day and there is no way T5 can put out more light on the sand bed then a 400 Radium. I got 138 PPFD on a lumatik with lumanmax. IMO T5 don't come close to the colors Radium puts out. Allot of European reefers are changing T5 at 6 months. By the time you get the combo you want with the T5, you already have spent some good $. Look into the Aquamaxx 14K bulbs they are nice.

01/15/2009, 12:21 AM	#24
orangekush4 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 367	When you go Radium you will never go back.

01/15/2009, 12:26 AM	#25
OnlyCrimson Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Royal Oak,Michigan Posts: 863	The t5's can never look like the radiums because the light is so much different. Point source just has a different look.