Death Tank 2009

firebirdude · 01/25/2009, 11:43 AM

Recently started up a 29g Biocube (october-ish). Cycle went fine and water was tested out the wazoo. A couple days after Christmas, I bought my first fish. Two tank raised clowns and a lawnmower blenny. Drip acclimated. All three fish seemed to be doing great. All three eating like pigs. I checked for spots on the fish almost daily. Around the 8th or 9th of the year, I come home to one dead clown. WTH. I tested the water for everything I could think of. The other two fish seem to be perfectly happy even a week later. Still swimming around and eating like pigs. On the 19th I decided to try and add another clown to keep my other one company. Tank raised from the same shop as the originals. I picked out a slightly smaller one to help with the pairing process in my tank. I also bought a cleaner shrimp. The clown looked extremely bright colored and healthy in the shop, but by the time I got him home and floated the bag in my tank, I could see he was quite pale compared to mine. Hmmm. Maybe I just tank better care of my fish than the fish store. He'll brighten up. Well he seemed to be doing ok for a few days. But I could see he was headed south last night. I knew what I would awake to...... OR DID I???..... one dead clown AND one dead lawnmower blenny!!! And it looks like my cleaner shrimp is dead and pinned against my overflow.... but upon closer inspection, the shrimp molted and that's just some old exoskeleton. After burying the dead, I feed the other clown. He's eating great and the shrimp is diving after the food as well. I detect zero ammonia so what the hell is going on?!

rhino509 · 01/25/2009, 12:33 PM

you didnt mention temperature.

drama07 · 01/25/2009, 12:45 PM

What kind of test kits are you using? I hope it aint strips.

Whys · 01/25/2009, 12:48 PM

Really hard to know. Clowns are typically pretty hardy.

Check the expiration date on your testers. If you are using a hydrometer, be sure to give it a very thorough cleaning with fresh water. These need to be rinsed with fresh water after each use to remain accurate.

Also keep an eye out for any possible contamination that might be making its way into the tank.

firebirdude · 01/25/2009, 05:30 PM

The temps have been on the high side. (82-83ish shown with a mercury bulb type thermometer) I know it's high, but there's not much I can do. I've been only running half the lights and for shorter periods. But I live in Florida, what can I do, ya know?

I'm using a refractometer and Seachem test kits. The Seachems come with a reference solution. I thought maybe my ammonia tests were incorrect, so I ran the tests again using the reference solution and it immediately showed the presence of ammonia. So the test kit is detecting properly. And I get nothing for my tank water. (Insert frowny face or smiley face here?? lol)

Whys · 01/25/2009, 05:38 PM

I don't know much about it, but have you tested for copper?

Also, what are you using for water purification? RO/DI, RO, etc?

firebirdude · 01/25/2009, 05:44 PM

I have not, but it was a brand new tank when it was started. I'm aware of the adverse effects of copper and don't see anyway it could have made its way into the aquarium. Also, inverts are extremely susceptible to copper, and my shrimp seems to be doing well.

I have a 4 stage DI system. I have tested it with a separate handheld TDS meter and it outputs 0 TDS water.

NirvanaFan · 01/25/2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by firebirdude
The temps have been on the high side. (82-83ish shown with a mercury bulb type thermometer) I know it's high, but there's not much I can do. I've been only running half the lights and for shorter periods. But I live in Florida, what can I do, ya know?

82-83 is not too high. That shouldn't be the problem.

Whys · 01/25/2009, 06:58 PM

As best I can tell, you're doing everything right.

Have you used any silicone grease, silicone glue, or epoxy?

What can you tell us about your LFS? Did everything you have come from the same one? Notice anything at the store that makes you go... hmmmm?

firebirdude · 01/25/2009, 07:13 PM

Ordered most of my stuff online.

It's a nanotuned biocube set up. Four PC bulbs vice the two on the stock cube. I haven't made many mods to it. I removed the bioballs and installed the Sapphire Aquatics skimmer, switched the stock pump for a maxi-jet 1200, and added a Marineland heater.

Whys · 01/25/2009, 07:24 PM

Man... that is some rotten luck. You're doing an A+ job with your setup and procedures. I'm as stumped as you are.

Could just be a fluke, but you'd hate to add another fish and discover otherwise.

Time to start thinking out of the box, literally. Where is your tank located? What's around it? Windows, direct sunlight... install any new carpet recently? Any children?

patsfan1130 · 01/25/2009, 07:31 PM

What your doing wrong is NOT QT the critters. You've no idea what you are getting with the lil guys when you purchase them. They could have any number of diseases (many of which go undetectable to the eye and are internal). The "ride home" from the LFS is generally pretty stressful for all fish and often causes extreme stress by throwing them in a completely new enviroment. Even in a perfect world, QT new arrivals is a must IMO if we want to provide the best chance of survival and a long lasting habitat for our fish.

Just my 2 cents

Mark

firebirdude · 01/25/2009, 07:39 PM

The tank does not receive direct sunlight at any point in the day. No kids or animals in my house. Just the two of us here.

patsfan, you're totally correct. I knew I was running some risks, but at first I figured it was the first fish on a freshly cycled tank and I don't even have any real corals yet. Then after the other two fish seemed to be doing so well.....I chalked the first death up to a fluke. I knew I was rolling the dice by throwing the 3rd clown and shrimp into the tank. It will be a LONG time before I add any more fish.

Whys · 01/25/2009, 07:41 PM

Pat, tho I agree with you in principle, it's like being hit by lightening. A great many of us do not use a QT and the most we usually suffer is a few flatworms for it, or ich. Tho certainly not impossible, an invisible pathogen would be some of the worst luck I've read to date.

A QT isn't actually practical for a lot of casual hobbyists, IMO. Always a good idea, yes, but not always practical. Admittedly tho, if you're buying online instead from an LFS, then a QT makes a whole lot of sense.

At this point, I'd say just wait it out. Give things another month, or two, or even three. If nothing else dies, I'd say give another fish a try.

Whys · 01/25/2009, 07:45 PM

Firebird, what about carpet? New carpet can fume off a lot of nasty chemicals and has been known to kill house plants.

Are you in your own home or an apartment? Something could be coming in from an apartment below.

Just some final thoughts, as this one is a real mystery.

01/25/2009, 11:43 AM	#1
firebirdude User and Abuser Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,836	Death Tank 2009 Recently started up a 29g Biocube (october-ish). Cycle went fine and water was tested out the wazoo. A couple days after Christmas, I bought my first fish. Two tank raised clowns and a lawnmower blenny. Drip acclimated. All three fish seemed to be doing great. All three eating like pigs. I checked for spots on the fish almost daily. Around the 8th or 9th of the year, I come home to one dead clown. WTH. I tested the water for everything I could think of. The other two fish seem to be perfectly happy even a week later. Still swimming around and eating like pigs. On the 19th I decided to try and add another clown to keep my other one company. Tank raised from the same shop as the originals. I picked out a slightly smaller one to help with the pairing process in my tank. I also bought a cleaner shrimp. The clown looked extremely bright colored and healthy in the shop, but by the time I got him home and floated the bag in my tank, I could see he was quite pale compared to mine. Hmmm. Maybe I just tank better care of my fish than the fish store. He'll brighten up. Well he seemed to be doing ok for a few days. But I could see he was headed south last night. I knew what I would awake to...... OR DID I???..... one dead clown AND one dead lawnmower blenny!!! And it looks like my cleaner shrimp is dead and pinned against my overflow.... but upon closer inspection, the shrimp molted and that's just some old exoskeleton. After burying the dead, I feed the other clown. He's eating great and the shrimp is diving after the food as well. I detect zero ammonia so what the hell is going on?!

01/25/2009, 07:31 PM	#12
patsfan1130 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Woburn, Ma Posts: 2,010	What your doing wrong is NOT QT the critters. You've no idea what you are getting with the lil guys when you purchase them. They could have any number of diseases (many of which go undetectable to the eye and are internal). The "ride home" from the LFS is generally pretty stressful for all fish and often causes extreme stress by throwing them in a completely new enviroment. Even in a perfect world, QT new arrivals is a must IMO if we want to provide the best chance of survival and a long lasting habitat for our fish. Just my 2 cents Mark __________________ My cat's breath smells like cat food Member of the Boston Reefers Society Current Tank Info: 75g lps, 90g sps, 120g mixed, 180 nem tank, 300g reef, 600g up & coming reef

01/25/2009, 12:33 PM	#2
rhino509 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: spokane,wa Posts: 552	you didnt mention temperature.

01/25/2009, 12:45 PM	#3
drama07 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 337	What kind of test kits are you using? I hope it aint strips.

01/25/2009, 12:48 PM	#4
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	Really hard to know. Clowns are typically pretty hardy. Check the expiration date on your testers. If you are using a hydrometer, be sure to give it a very thorough cleaning with fresh water. These need to be rinsed with fresh water after each use to remain accurate. Also keep an eye out for any possible contamination that might be making its way into the tank.

01/25/2009, 05:30 PM	#5
firebirdude User and Abuser Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,836	The temps have been on the high side. (82-83ish shown with a mercury bulb type thermometer) I know it's high, but there's not much I can do. I've been only running half the lights and for shorter periods. But I live in Florida, what can I do, ya know? I'm using a refractometer and Seachem test kits. The Seachems come with a reference solution. I thought maybe my ammonia tests were incorrect, so I ran the tests again using the reference solution and it immediately showed the presence of ammonia. So the test kit is detecting properly. And I get nothing for my tank water. (Insert frowny face or smiley face here?? lol)

01/25/2009, 05:38 PM	#6
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	I don't know much about it, but have you tested for copper? Also, what are you using for water purification? RO/DI, RO, etc?

01/25/2009, 05:44 PM	#7
firebirdude User and Abuser Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,836	I have not, but it was a brand new tank when it was started. I'm aware of the adverse effects of copper and don't see anyway it could have made its way into the aquarium. Also, inverts are extremely susceptible to copper, and my shrimp seems to be doing well. I have a 4 stage DI system. I have tested it with a separate handheld TDS meter and it outputs 0 TDS water.

01/25/2009, 06:58 PM	#9
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	As best I can tell, you're doing everything right. Have you used any silicone grease, silicone glue, or epoxy? What can you tell us about your LFS? Did everything you have come from the same one? Notice anything at the store that makes you go... hmmmm?

01/25/2009, 07:13 PM	#10
firebirdude User and Abuser Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,836	Ordered most of my stuff online. It's a nanotuned biocube set up. Four PC bulbs vice the two on the stock cube. I haven't made many mods to it. I removed the bioballs and installed the Sapphire Aquatics skimmer, switched the stock pump for a maxi-jet 1200, and added a Marineland heater.

01/25/2009, 07:24 PM	#11
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	Man... that is some rotten luck. You're doing an A+ job with your setup and procedures. I'm as stumped as you are. Could just be a fluke, but you'd hate to add another fish and discover otherwise. Time to start thinking out of the box, literally. Where is your tank located? What's around it? Windows, direct sunlight... install any new carpet recently? Any children?

01/25/2009, 07:39 PM	#13
firebirdude User and Abuser Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,836	The tank does not receive direct sunlight at any point in the day. No kids or animals in my house. Just the two of us here. patsfan, you're totally correct. I knew I was running some risks, but at first I figured it was the first fish on a freshly cycled tank and I don't even have any real corals yet. Then after the other two fish seemed to be doing so well.....I chalked the first death up to a fluke. I knew I was rolling the dice by throwing the 3rd clown and shrimp into the tank. It will be a LONG time before I add any more fish.

01/25/2009, 07:41 PM	#14
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	Pat, tho I agree with you in principle, it's like being hit by lightening. A great many of us do not use a QT and the most we usually suffer is a few flatworms for it, or ich. Tho certainly not impossible, an invisible pathogen would be some of the worst luck I've read to date. A QT isn't actually practical for a lot of casual hobbyists, IMO. Always a good idea, yes, but not always practical. Admittedly tho, if you're buying online instead from an LFS, then a QT makes a whole lot of sense. At this point, I'd say just wait it out. Give things another month, or two, or even three. If nothing else dies, I'd say give another fish a try.

01/25/2009, 07:45 PM	#15
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	Firebird, what about carpet? New carpet can fume off a lot of nasty chemicals and has been known to kill house plants. Are you in your own home or an apartment? Something could be coming in from an apartment below. Just some final thoughts, as this one is a real mystery.