Do u ever get the: "I don't believe in captive fish" comment???

[No Worries1979]

This is a little off subject but I had a friend of mine came over with his girl the other day and she said, "I don't believe in fish being in captivity". I was kind of shocked considering that we obviously put alot of time into our two reefs and enjoy the hard work and satisfaction of reefing. I responded by saying that we do everything we can to make sure our corals and animals have the healthiest life possible and they are technically safer considering they have no predators in a fish tank and aren't exposed to pollution and natural oceanic algae blooms. I guess she was more concerned with getting her opinion out than realizing that we do everything possible to make our animals "happy". I'm wondering if any of you have a similar, or more interesting story to tell. Please tell...

[chort55]

Don't feel bad, whenever I tell people my dog breed of choice is Pitbulls (I currently only have a pit/boxer mix now ), I get the OMG, THEY ARE KILLERS AND MEAN MEAN CREATURES speach lol. Atleast your fish probably aren't tagged as killers

[Sk8r]

I get that *feeling* only when I see a big fish in a too-small tank. A fish needs room to have a territory. If he has a proper territory (which is why I favor keeping little gobies and blennies in my 54g) he's as happy as a fish in his territory can be...unless you one day make a real mistake in adding an unresearched fish.

[Juruense]

No one has ever laid that guilt trip on me, no.

[WangoTANGo]

I hear it a lot when it comes to discussing tangs.

There is a line between just keeping pets for the sake of having them, and actually caring for and doing what's best for them.

-Justin

[Doahh]

Anyone who says that to a Hobbyist is probably involves with PETA and think that "Sea Kittens" are too hard to keep happy in captivity

[Shmax]

I think it's kind of funny getting that attitude from people. We (humans) use animals as one of our main food sources, we test growth hormones and medicines and God only knows what else to them. And that same girl probably ate one of those tested, domesticated, bred-for-dinner animals the same very day she laid that guilt trip on you about fish that have a MUCH better life than her lunch did. My .02

[jtreefdweller]

One problem I see with the hobby is that because there are so many species of fish and corals, people tend not to do enough research on specific fish and it leads to fish dieing or not being taken care of properly. Also I think people take lots of chances keeping certain species together, even knowing it might not work, but still taking a chance.

It is our job as the keeper of these "miniature reefs" to take care of the fish/inverts as best as possible, because they didn't ask to be here.

[mudskipper1]

One thing to keep in mind, is that within a relatively short period of time, most if not all reef fish and coral species will be dying out...due to Ocean acidification, warming, and other things. If we do not learn how to successfully care for and reproduce these species in captivity, before long...there wont be any on the planet...As Aldo Leopold said, if you want to fix something, you have to keep all the pieces. JMO (With Scientific Basis)

[Shmax]

One thing to keep in mind, is that within a relatively short period of time, most if not all reef fish and coral species will be dying out...due to Ocean acidification, warming, and other things. If we do not learn how to successfully care for and reproduce these species in captivity, before long...there wont be any on the planet...As Aldo Leopold said, if you want to fix something, you have to keep all the pieces. JMO (With Scientific Basis)

I absolutely mean no disrespect, and never mean to flame anyone on here, so please do not take this personally:

Global warming is the single most destructive hoax in the history of mankind. It flat out does not exist. Even scientists that touted it so brashly just a couple years ago now call it "climate change", because the planet IS NOT STEADILY WARMING, but they don't want to give up on the theory that we are changing our own climate.

The oceans are not going to be empty... until the final days of Earth's existance. The reefs, the plains, the mountains, the rivers... all are continually changing around the world and have been since the beginning of time. Why else would we find marine fossils in the Sahara desert, or on snowy peaks of mountains? Though our environment may be changing, and some critters may go to the wayside, other animals will fill that void. The thought that our tanks, or any captive program, will hold the only reefs in existance at any time in the future, is beyond silly to me.

[Shmax]

I just noticed you're in high school... it makes me wonder what they're pumping into the heads of our kids while they attend those indoctrination facilities....

[Juruense]

The above two opinions are from Ohio, take that into consideration...

//just sayin...

[Shmax]

Some of it is opinion. The FACT that temperature probes in over 150 points across the globe show a decline in ocean temperature over the last 5 years is not. Believe what you will I guess, but I guarantee you can find just as many "scientists" to refute global warming as you can find that support it, the only difference being those that refute it have proof.

[Juruense]

I absolutely mean no disrespect, and never mean to flame anyone on here, so please do not take this personally:

I see a lot of really stupid stuff posted on the internet by people from Ohio.

[chort55]

Originally posted by Shmax
I just noticed you're in high school... it makes me wonder what they're pumping into the heads of our kids while they attend those indoctrination facilities....

LOL... when I came home about 10 years ago and told my ma that in 20-30 years our climate would be like Florida's and theirs would be like ours she laughed and said wow they still haven't changed the time frame from when they were telling us that when I was in school 20+ years ago. And thats when I started sleeping through my classes LOL

[Shmax]

I've noticed that a lot of people, I won't dare group them by where they live, or their political, religious, or social ideas, are quick to chime in with their opinion, but shy away or change the subject once the facts come into the conversation. Of course, you have to take what I say with a grain of salt, I am after all, from Ohio. =)

[Juruense]

I am not going to debate global warming with you if that is what you are asking.

[Shmax]

Oh I had no expectations that you would, that's why I didn't ask you any questions. But to stay more inline with this thread, I think I will. Are you saying you DO think that at some point in our future we will be housing the world's only reef inhabitants?

[Natalie890]

Wow. . .intense. . . im in high school too but instead of being fed that all the animal species of the world are going to die nonsense i have done reading myself on "global warming" and evolution and i find myself agreeing with both sides. The earth has in fact warmed but i dont believe its due to human interference, the earth has been fluxuating in temperature for billions of years (yes science has determined the earth to be about 4 billion years old) and the warming is a natural process. Millions of species are arising constantly and also going extinct all the time as the environment changes, the only thing we should concern ourselves with is if we as humans are destroying their natural environments. Species evolve based on their environments and to say that all the fish will go extinct is ridiculous, maybe those species will go extinct but they will give rise to new fish adapted to this new environment.

[mudskipper1]

The information I stated above in no way, shape or form came from something I learned in school. I am the President of Venturing Crew 202, a coed part of Boy Scouts. This group is sponsored by the Maryland Department of Natural Resources. We have won several National awards for our education and service related to the environment. I have personally done extensive research on the issue, and have presented you with what the best science predicts. The IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) has made many predictions, including many related to marine ecosystems.


The term Global Warming was a Generalization coming from the Greenhouse Gas effect. The effects of the interruption of various cycles on our planet by climate change, whether influenced by man or not, are unpredictable. There will be areas which are warmer, areas which are colder, dryer, wetter, underwater (sea-level rise)...etc. The consequences just to biodiversity due to this, and many other impacts upon our environment, cause many researchers to predict that we will lose 25% of the species on Earth in the next 10 years. Now, I don’t know how old you are, and I don’t care, but I do know that I want something to be left for me and my kids, and their kids...I as a high-school student, and “young-person� have the Moral right to demand that our society make changes to try to change patterns which are leading to the loss of overall biodiversity on our planet. Biodiversity loss is another topic which little is known about as far as impacts. Scientists do know however that every organism plays a role, and beyond a certain point, more and more species will begin to go extinct. Yes, the Earth is constantly changing...and as a result of those changes, the species on the planet also change. We as Humans are no exception to that rule.

Even if man did not cause Climate change, the impacts of it have potential to decimate the Human race, and we have the opportunity to do something about that. I don’t know about you, but I have dedicated my life thus far to trying to change the world for the better, and I plan to continue to do so in the future.

There have been many cases in which Oil companies have been proven to be funding (with Billions of dollars) of scientists, which then distribute false scientific research to "cloud the waters" and make it seem like there is not a consensus among the scientific community.

The current species loss is occurring at a rate 10000 times greater than the background extinction rate, and is predicted to increase in the coming times...

An analogy I like using for this situation is that we do not make doctors show that you have had a heart attack in order to take measures against it happening. The doctor tells you that you are showing signs, and you have several potential risk factors. The issue of Climate change can be compared to this in that we are waiting and watching species die-off, while not taking action, because we don’t know the exact cause. We often do not realize in time, and we are to late in taking measures to stop the pattern. We trust doctors...even though the idea that High Cholesterol causes Heart attacks is after all a theory, not a fact, yet we don’t trust scientists which have shown vast amounts of data supporting their theory, that have shown that we need to make fundamental changes to our way of life, or we will pass a "tipping point" which occurs due to the cyclical nature of our planet's processes. We don’t trust them because it is just a "theory"...well anything that cant be 100% scientifically proven is a "theory".

What are the downsides to making changes to our way of life, to attempt to limit the effects of climate change and to leave as much as possible behind for the generations to come? We know that we are running out of oil fast...we use a million years of stored oil every year...not exactly sustainable. There are increased levels of asthma, cancer, mercury poisoning, and various other ailments due to our use of Fossil fuels. We as a nation can either lead the way into a new, sustainable future, or we can use fossil fuels to the last drop and then have a catastrophic collapse of our society.

I don’t mean anything personally, or mean any offense by any of these comments, they are general statements directed toward our country as a whole...

E-mail me at ekazyak@comcast.net if you have questions about anything above that you do not wish to post here...as I do not feel that this is the correct place to do so.

Thanks

[mudskipper1]

http://coralreef.gov/climate/
Yes, i am saying there is a real potential that at some point in the not so distant future, our aquariums may be the only place which has reef in habitants.

And I will not shy away from the facts...

[mudskipper1]

where did your info about ocean temperatures decreasing come from?

You have to back "facts" up with sources so the means of which the conclusions were drawn can be assessed...

[mudskipper1]

http://climate.jpl.nasa.gov/news/ind...26&text=Larger

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/futurecc.html

a few more links on the subject...

and Climate does not refer to 5 years...it does not refer to weather, it refers to large scale changes...

[mudskipper1]

http://www.whole-systems.org/extinctions.html

http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/technical-pap...versity-en.pdf

Couple more...

[mudskipper1]

really? no responses yet...I thought we were gonna have a nice little debate...shame