my fish died--why? An Fyi

[Sk8r]

1. acclimation. You must match the salinity within .001. If you don't have a refractometer, get one.
2. quarantine. Yes, some fish die in qt. They'd have died in your tank, very likely, unless there's something wrong with the qt tank---which should have carbon, daily testing, and daily topoff.
3. inappropriate size tank: fish can stress to death, refusing food, or not getting enough oxygen, rather like being in an airliner with no oxygen mask.
4. lack of appropriate food in the tank: dragonets (mandarins, scooters) are pod eaters.
5. outcompeted for food: 6-line wrasses are also pod eaters and pushy to boot. There are other bad pairings in the industry.
6. killed by another of species. Most marine fish do not live in pairs. They mate at certain times, but they also fight, and if you're wrong about gender, they'll really fight. Chromis are often called a 'schooling fish'. Wrong. They whittle down their own population one by one until you end up with far fewer chromises.
7. carpet surfing. Fish leap to escape a scary thing, a predator, a boxed-in situation, or you, among other things. Some ride currents and upwells, just for fun. You MUST have anti-jump precautions.
8. unguarded intakes. Mine DEFINITELY has to be guarded---the downward loops leads to an Iwaki pump that would create fish soup, and fish will also investigate an outbound current.
9. water quality issues. Test, test, test, ammonia, nitrate, salinity, temperature, alkalinity, and if alk won't behave---also calcium and magnesium. Do your water changes. That's where trace elements come from. Use ro/di. Conditioning does not remove killer trace elements like arsenic and copper. They just pile up and up with evaporation. Do not overfeed.
10. a crab or mantis hitchhiker. Occasionally---getting fresh with a clam.


Things fish do NOT die of: bristleworms, getting stuck in a rock, (you're more likely to kill your fish while looking for him).

[Savas]

As always, Sk8r has a good list of information! Nice job!

[jgln]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sk8r
[B
Occasionally---getting fresh with a clam.

You know, years ago I came home to find my Naso tang with a good portion of his mouth missing, you could see bone. Kind of like the Terminator in one of the movies. It has pretty much completly healed over and unless you knew he sould have bigger lips you wouldn't even know something happened to him. Anyway, my girfriend wanted a thorny oyster and all I can think of is he went nosing around in there and got caught. What do you think? I really don't believe it was any disease or fungus as the night before he was in perfect condition. It was a shame to see him like that but today he is just fine and happy. Thorny oyster dies shortly after, I know now it was wrong for our tank.

Jim

[Elysia]

Sk8r-
What do you think about people who post that they have never lost a fish? I have seen this before on RC. Usually it comes w/ all sorts of caveats (like it doesn't count the fish that jumped, etc etc.) but those who have purchased expensive fish say that it is insulting to be asked "aren't you afraid the fish will die?" I am always concerned about a new animal's health when I first acquire it.
I have lost fish. I have felt bad about each fish that I have lost. When it was apparent that something was wrong, I did everything in my power to stop it. Sometimes, the death came out of the blue. I research my purchases before I purchase them. I try to set up good homes for my animals. I perform regular water changes and feed good foods, although I don't test my water as much as I should.
But I am not comfortable w/ the number of animals that have died in my care. And yet, I am sure that, if I continue to purchase animals, some will die on occassion. One or two even from some bone-headed mistake that I have made. How do I know if I have had more losses than "normal?" I'd hate to stay in the hobby if I am that bad at it.

[Savas]

As long as you have money and hope, stay in the hobby. One will run out when it is time to leave.

One other thought that I have is that sometimes thing just die and you will not be able to determine the root cause.

[Sk8r]

Some of them die because of handling long before you got them. The best you can do: stock as completely as you can early, and don't acquire new fish (chance of disease or parasites). And remember, too, we don't know the age of some of the fishes we acquire: they may be quite old. Try to eliminate your mistakes. At worst, remember a night-hunting shark could have had lunch in the reef---
Your job is simply to TRY to extend their lifespans, by excellent qt, excellent water, and research. But the number of fish that become lunch daily is considerable in the wide world, and sometimes you just got an old fish with problems.
What you want to avoid: the avoidable----getting fish you don't know about, not quarantining them, and dumping an unquarantined fish in on them to infect them with parasites.

[WhiteLightsaber]

very nice write-up. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Rjukan]

Originally posted by Savas
As long as you have money and hope, stay in the hobby. One will run out when it is time to leave.

I like that ^ lol.

Sk8r, good helpful info! I never thought about a clam eating a fish, thats pretty wild.

[Sk8r]

Rjukan---y'know what happens when the doc taps your knee with the little hammer? that's what a clam does when a longnosed fish pokes his head into a sensitive spot, and because he's still being irritated by the fish now stuck in that sensitive spot, he can't let go. Best thing to do if you come on this scenario when it's just happened is to hold the clam and his rock upside down in hopes he will release, as I understand it, but chances for the fish are not good at that point. I've seen clowns swim merrily in and out of a maxima, but my sea hare got his head snapped on twice in my crocea, before he recorded it in his dim memory that this was not a good thing.

I might add, sea hares, cucumbers, etc, are a danger to a tank, if you have anything that will pick on them. Sea hares can ink, and cucumbers are toxic. My own advice is not to get a large fleshy invert (including a nem) until your tank is boringly stable.

[bradbmbj]

I still wonder about the salinity issue, what I mean is several shallow water reefs around the world are subject to severe tropical storms. Some of these storms drop several feet of rain water in a short period of time which has to change the salinity fairly quickly and probably more than we would ever change it in our tanks, while I do understand osmotic shock can occur, it just seems it not as crucial as many other issues

[Johnny C]

bump for an EXCELLENT thread. your the best!

[Sk8r]

Yes, but, Bradbmbj---when it rains on the reef, the fish have the opportunity to go deeper and go elsewhere; also the holes in the rock where they take shelter are likely to hold the former salinity until the ocean-motion has evened things out. Certain fish are more tolerant than others, depending on where they live.

Osmotic shock (change of salinity) destroys cell walls and stresses kidneys, which have to deal with the difference.

Since your fish cannot move to save themselves, it's up to you to have that salinity equalized. All this dripping and waiting is mostly about just that one parameter, though the others matter.

If you regularly buy from one source, it makes sense to have your quarantine tank set to THE SHOP'S salinity when you acquire a fish, and to use topoff to gradually adjust it to match your tank over the weeks of quarantine. That way your acclimation time is very short and you don't risk a ph change, which can happen on opening that plastic bag.

[Sk8r]

And I'll add one more very critical point: be particular when picking out a fish. DON'T buy that poor little thin fish because you're sorry for him. DON'T rush to buy the moment the fish arrive at the shop. DON'T buy a fish with ragged fins or other signs of damage. DON'T pity-buy a fish that is gaunt or has an arched-in belly.
Ask when a fish came in, give them several weeks at the shop, if at all possible, and, special advice for the newbie forum, stick to the abundant fish: your selection is wider, their care is easier, they're generally hardier. That very beautiful exotic fish you admire and have only seen one of will probably NOT succeed in your new tank, and you'll only have the grief of losing a beautiful creature. You're in this hobby for the long haul. Next year will be time enough to consider that special fish. Right now, get the more basic fish you also admire, and make your mistakes with fish that can tolerate a little wobble. Once you've steadied down your chemistry, gotten past the year-mark, experienced the year-one water quality crisis that comes with your bulbs aging, your first setup problems coming home to roost, your topoff accidents, accidental overdoses and other things you'll be lucky to escape in your first year---then you're ready to go, and you'll do right by that pretty creature you dream of having.