To deep sand bed or not to deep sand bed?

[Sean P.]

Here is my predicament.

I finally got my 55 gal. It has been running for the last 2 years with approx. 4" on LS and about 50 lbs of LR. There is some life in the tank basically just some craps and snails. I even found some pollups of ??? attached to some rock.

I hear that there is two schools of thought when it comes to sand beds.
1- No need for a sand bed - It just collects waste and is of no "real" benefit.
2- A good deep sand bed is essential - It houses critters and micro organisms that break down that waste and help to balance the tank chemistry.

So my predicament is this. I was told by the guy that I got the tank from that I do not want to disturb the DSB because it will stir up all kinds of nasty chemicals. So I was going to just vac the top really good to remove the surface silty crap and call it good.

In speaking with one of the members of the forum it was recommended to remove all of the sand and rinse it out really good and put it back.

Thoughts, opinions, ideas, educated guesses, experiences ???

[Bamm Bamm]

I vote barebottom. I've done both and will never have a DSB again...

[Doahh]

Do a Shallow Sand bed (about 1cm) and put your DSB in your fuge or a bucket.

[Bamm Bamm]

oh yeah I forgot to mention i do have a 4"-6" dsb in my fuge=)

[reedrodz]

I was thinking about a DSB in my fuge also. What kinda sand you guys are using? I have and old sand thats been sitting around. Will it be ok to use that or I can clean it with fresh and introduce some live sand afterwards?

[bluenassarius]

i'm for the sand bed. there are many benefits to having one vs barebottom.

[buzzbombtom]

plus everyone will ask where the sand is, its annoying i swear

[reedrodz]

HahAhA what kind of sand do you cuts use? There was a thread o befor for DSB. I can't find it. AnywAy can I use an old sand?

[P.Kelly]

I am of the opinion that when a tank is broken down, the sand comes out and is rinsed out, or tossed out. When you move a tank, you invariably disturb the sandbed, and sandbeds trap some nasty stuff that you don't want released en masse into the water column. Of course that doesn't answer the question about a DSB, but I've followed this advice from Mark Levenson each time I've moved a tank without negative side effects (except mini cycles). The one time I didn't wash the sand, I had some serious side effects. My $0.02

[killaACES]

this has been an ongoing controversy for YEARS since the 90's. I will NEVER go DSB. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, I would recommend doing your research.

It is almost like asking yourself "what filtration method should i go with, Mechanical or Biological?", "Plenum, Jaubert, Berlin, Algae Scrubber, Live Sand Bed, or the Mud/Eco Method?"

if you have the extra cash to spend, just get new sand, also good luck with everything and hope it all works out.

[reedrodz]

Very true

[Brian Prestwood]

Hey Sean

I've kept deep sand beds for 9 years now.

I currently have four 8" deep tubs in my sump. Each filled with 7" (40 lbs) of suitable sand. I swap out 1/4 of the live sand for dead every six months.

I've lived through the five year crash with an in-tank DSB. I've seen the positive affect that swapping out 1/4 of the a properly setup RDSB has on my tank.

IMO - the complaint that they just bind up waste misses the point of DSBs. Bubbling out nitrous oxide gas is nice but binding up waste is their biggest contribution.

My rules for DSBs...
They must be removable in sections
Swapping out a section must not intoduce oxygenated water into the adjacent sections
The deeper, up to 18", the better

For most people these rules mean they must be remote.

[mrine4life]

Brian,
you mentioned removing a quarter of the DSB monthly is the best way to go but avoid introducing the contaminated water going back into the tank rite? What about deep vacumming them, is it equivalent? if we can do it slowly enough so that the dirty water will not pour out of the suction tube.

[Sean P.]

I went with removing the sand, washing it (that was fun), and using it as a remote DSB. It is about 7 - 8 inches deep at the moment.

Thanks all for you thoughts and opinions. Brian I hear you are the expert when it comes to DSB's. I will pick your brain more this evening if I get the chance.

Great discussion! I am really enjoying reading about the different perspectives and experiences.

[Brian Prestwood]

Mrine4Life

I lift one of the four tubs I mentioned out without disturbing the sand. I dump the live sand out and fill it with new sand then put it back into the sump. The sand in the other three containers is not disturbed. I do this every six months

When my 6" in-tank DSB reached five years of age sand vacuuming literally killed corals. I recommend you set it up so you can swap it out. Anthony Calfo RC thread on removte deep sand beds recommends using 5g buckets. Any sealable container that will hold 1/3 of the required sand will work. Set up three and after a year start swapping one out every 6-8 months.

[Brian Prestwood]

Hey Sean

As bacteria grows on the clean sand it binds up waste. IMO, this is the biggest benefit DSBs provide. The anoxic bacteria in the deeper sand converts nitrates to nitrous oxide which bubbles out of the tank. This is also a benefit.

I have not done it myself but I suspect a thorough rinsing in fresh water will kill the bacteria and remove it. This should make the sand viable as a nutrient sink, i.e. replacement sand for remote deep sand beds.

There are lots of folks who know more than me about deep sand beds, Anthony Calfo comes to mind, but I'm happy to share what I know. I'll be wearing the hawaiian shirt.

[Brian Prestwood]

Hey Sean

First of all, I appologize for confussing you on Friday night. I should have started by asking you what you were trying to accomplish with your deep sand bed.

As Peter Kelly (MARS President) pointed out, if your goal is to reduce nitrates and/or phosphates then carbon dosing (e.g. Vodka dosing) is probably the easiest way to do it.

That tub full of rubble you described is more like a refugium (AKA fuge) then a deep sand bed. I have two 20g above tank refugiums full of rubble.

FWIW - It seems like refugium is much more productive with a light over it than without. I had lights over mine the first year they were up. I took the lights off about a year ago.

The filter feeders did fine without light. However, the pods mostly moved out.

I put a light back on Friday night.

For a rubble fuge you don't want much sand. An inch or two is find. And, if possible you do want to pump the water in at the bottom of the rubble and let it perk up. I left just enough room above the rubble for algae to grow. A little chaeto here work well.

[Sean P.]

That is some good food for thought. I really liked the system you were talking about as well with the buckets. I may think more about incorporating something like that for my 100 gal setup. I have been thinking constantly how one would go about finding a bucket lid that would seal good enough. The only thing I could come up with was that you can't - one would have to keep the water level below the top.

Thanks for you thoughts and expertise. I love all the different possibilities and creativity that comes with reefing.

[iriejp1]

Originally posted by Sean P.
That is some good food for thought. I really liked the system you were talking about as well with the buckets. I may think more about incorporating something like that for my 100 gal setup. I have been thinking constantly how one would go about finding a bucket lid that would seal good enough. The only thing I could come up with was that you can't - one would have to keep the water level below the top.

Reef Crystals and Instant Ocean buckets come with a lid that has a gasket on it. I don't know if I'd call it pressure ready...but I bet they would hold fairly decent if closed properly. They are 5 gallons.

[jubjub]

personally i dont care what anyone says i will always have 1-2" sandbed. i feel with the DSB in the main display tank that it takes up to much of the view while a BB tank people would say where's the sand? so imma look at it purely aesthetically.... that i will just do the 1-2" in display, and do a DSB in my sump

[delusions]

Brian - could you post a pic of the removable tubs in your sump please?