Dosing BRS Two-Part - Automatically...

ZURCSREEF · 03/10/2009, 07:02 PM

I will be dosing Bulk Reef Supply's two part deluxe package and wanted to know what kind of ideas you all might have about doing this automatically everyday? If you have this setup, please post pictures and explanation.

I have a AC3Pro and would like to put this sucker to use

Thanks,
-Mike C.

qfrisco · 03/10/2009, 07:46 PM

I haven't done this yet, but I plan to use a couple Drew's Dosing Pumps (from BRS), each controlled via my AC3. Just measure the dosing rate of the pumps you get, then have your AC3Pro turn the pumps on for the appropriate amount of time.

ZURCSREEF · 03/10/2009, 10:35 PM

Thank you, was looking into that, but was hoping to find something a bit more wallet friendly as those pumps run for $85 a piece and I am going to need atleast 2-3.

-Mike C.

greenmonkey51 · 03/10/2009, 10:44 PM

You could do it with gravity, but its not as consistent. I also imagine that on a larger system like you have you'll be dosing quite a bit more and your prep containers would be bigger. Overall the pumps are the best option.

madadi · 03/11/2009, 12:07 AM

if you already have the AC all you need is a cheap pump. the peristaltic would be the best the i think an aqualifter pump could work well. just have to prevent a siphon when the pumps stop so put some check valves. at 10 dollars each, you cant go wrong so give it a try. you can also dial them back so they run at a lower GPM with a small ball valve.

stanlalee · 03/11/2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZURCSREEF
Thank you, was looking into that, but was hoping to find something a bit more wallet friendly as those pumps run for $85 a piece and I am going to need atleast 2-3.

-Mike C.

thats about as cheap as it comes beyond a mechanical gravity drip that wont be a high risk for back siphoning. whats the 3rd pump for (assumming the first two are for calcium and alk supplements).

kretzkiller · 03/11/2009, 08:19 AM

go with the aqua lifter. I use a valve on mine to control the flow. It drips my alk supplement 24/7, which I have mixed in with my top off water. I am currently in the process of getting one setup to dose calcium.

GatorWPB · 03/11/2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZURCSREEF
I will be dosing Bulk Reef Supply's two part deluxe package and wanted to know what kind of ideas you all might have about doing this automatically everyday? If you have this setup, please post pictures and explanation.

I have a AC3Pro and would like to put this sucker to use

Thanks,
-Mike C.

With an AC3Pro, not sure why you want to go cheap. The Drews Dosers seem to be the best option for the money. Also, I think you'll only need 2, as you can hand dose magnesium.
Here's my setup on my Reefkeeper2. I use the slim jugs from BRS as well. Ive posted these pics before.

ZURCSREEF · 03/11/2009, 05:03 PM

I wouldn't consider anything I am doing to be "cheap" - is there something wrong with looking for something a bit more affordable? Drew's dosers were the first product I looked at for this project, do you usually jump into the first thing that you see?

That being said, I am looking into some very similar pumps from grainger that I can get at a great price, a friend of mine is bringing me one later today to look at and test.

Will keep you updated as I am sure many other people would be interested in something a tadbit more affordable, of course if its ok with GatorWPB...

Thanks for all the comments,
-Mike C.

Quote:

Originally posted by GatorWPB
With an AC3Pro, not sure why you want to go cheap. The Drews Dosers seem to be the best option for the money. Also, I think you'll only need 2, as you can hand dose magnesium.
Here's my setup on my Reefkeeper2. I use the slim jugs from BRS as well. Ive posted these pics before.

THE ROOK · 03/11/2009, 05:32 PM

Zurcsreef - FYI there was a couple of brand new drew's pumps in the for sale section yesterday, I believe.

That said, please report back with you find on the grainger pump. Always looking for a new, affordable method.

arod2051 · 03/12/2009, 06:20 AM

I have been running a test between peristaltic and diaphragm pumps. Specifically, Drew's vs Tom's pumps.

My data and initial results are complete but I am still dialing in another aqualifter with a different pinch valve.

The thread is here on my local club site.

What I've found is that Drew's pumps have very little variance. My goals is to dose about 50 mL over the course of the evening. I can achieve that goal with 28 minutes of dosing on one pump and 32 minutes of dosing on another. I am planning to use an ACjr to split the the dosing up by 7 or 8 sessions of 4-minutes each during the lights-off time.

The aqualifter has been a pain to dial-in. I have tried about 5 different valves. My latest result will be posted with a new valve. But after a few moments of tweaking I am finding it to have a rather tight distribution. I had to make tradeoffs, like faster flow-rate.

Can you provide a link to the Grainger pump? It sounds like you are getting a 'homeboy' hookup so it may not be cost-effective for normal reefers.

catman78 · 03/12/2009, 07:12 AM

ZURCSREEF

When using Drews dosing pumps is it necessary to use ports 4 and 8 on DC8? These are mechanical switches.

I've seen on old forums this was the case due to low current draw of pumps.

Can you please comment, as I'll be using an ACJr. with Drews and will need to free up ports if this is the case.

Thanks
Mark

catman78 · 03/12/2009, 07:19 AM

ZURCSREEF

When using Drews dosing pumps is it necessary to use ports 4 and 8 on DC8? These are mechanical switches.

I've seen on old forums this was the case due to low current draw of pumps.

Can you please comment, as I'll be using an ACJr. with Drews and will need to free up ports if this is the case.

Thanks
Mark

catman78 · 03/12/2009, 07:22 AM

Sorry ZURCSREEF
my question was to:
GatorWPB or arod2051

double post AAAHH

arod2051 · 03/12/2009, 07:42 AM

Mark,

I have not setup the ACjr yet. My test was run on a digital timer. I've spent two weeks trying to calibrate the ACjr timer using the leap second it is a PITA.

I just cracked open the DC8 manual and it does state that low "power-factor" devices should be put on Ports 4 and 8. I don't know if the Drew's dosing pump qualifies as a low power factor device.

I am planning to move my test setup into my tank and use the ACjr for future testing. I'll do this this weekend and will post up again. I'll test out other outlet ports since I'll only be running freshwater into freshwater.

catman78 · 03/12/2009, 08:07 AM

Thanks arod2051, looking forward to your observations.

Great thread on local site. LOL, attention span of a Soybean...

ZURCSREEF · 03/12/2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arod2051
I have been running a test between peristaltic and diaphragm pumps. Specifically, Drew's vs Tom's pumps.

My data and initial results are complete but I am still dialing in another aqualifter with a different pinch valve.

The thread is here on my local club site.

What I've found is that Drew's pumps have very little variance. My goals is to dose about 50 mL over the course of the evening. I can achieve that goal with 28 minutes of dosing on one pump and 32 minutes of dosing on another. I am planning to use an ACjr to split the the dosing up by 7 or 8 sessions of 4-minutes each during the lights-off time.

The aqualifter has been a pain to dial-in. I have tried about 5 different valves. My latest result will be posted with a new valve. But after a few moments of tweaking I am finding it to have a rather tight distribution. I had to make tradeoffs, like faster flow-rate.

Can you provide a link to the Grainger pump? It sounds like you are getting a 'homeboy' hookup so it may not be cost-effective for normal reefers.

My friend came by last night with the pump, it looked great at site, but once we took it apart, it would only cause problems in the future, too many of the pieces were made too cheapy and in my opinion would not last very long after some alk and calc power [if] got stuck in there.

Lol, not a "homeboy" hook up, only catch is I would have to buy a case, but I figured I would of just plopped them on ebay.

I have received quite a few pm's about the drew's dosers and I am getting a pretty good deal on a pair of them so I am going that route.

Thanks everyone for the comments and questions, really helped.
-Mike C.

BrassMonkey · 03/12/2009, 11:29 AM

here is what i just did.

masterflex 6-600 rpm motor, with masterflex 7013. $75
nos masterflex 7013 $32
5 ft hose and barbs. $20

Masoch · 03/12/2009, 11:40 AM

The Spectrapure Litre Meter 3 is a good choice -- you calibrate the pumps, then set how much you want each pump to deliver. The LM3 controller will automatically split up the total dose over the course of a day in a bunch of small doses.

I've one on my 40 (with 2 pumps), and like it a lot.

For the 20, I have a Reefkeeper Lite with 2 of Drew's pumps. Since you can set each channel to be on for 1 minute intervals, it was easy enough to set the alk to come on for, IIRC, 16 minutes of alk at 3:00AM and 15 minutes of Ca at 3:00PM. Works like a charm -- but this method needs timers that can be fine-tuned. The RK2 on the 40 only turns on channels in 15 minute intervals, so I went with the spendier LM3.

arod2051 · 03/12/2009, 11:53 AM

I would have loved to get the LiterMeter 3 but it is in another price class. I would go this route if you want to eliminate a single point-of-failure in the Aquacontroller. Or, if you have no plans in using a separate controller at all.

The AC3Pro and the ACjr have 1-minute intervals for the timer. I thought this was crap, but I had no idea the RK2 had 15-minute granularity.

"Spendier" is awesome. I am going to use that term from now on.

Masoch · 03/12/2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

The AC3Pro and the ACjr have 1-minute intervals for the timer. I thought this was crap, but I had no idea the RK2 had 15-minute granularity.

"Spendier" is awesome. I am going to use that term from now on.

[/B]

Interestingly, getting a new controller /and/ a couple of Drew's pumps would've been more expensive than getting a LM3. I had no idea that I'd want to be automating a 2-part system, so ...

Anyway, I have to say, I like having an automated 2-part setup more than a calcium reactor. I liked topping up with kalk best of all, but both of my tanks have started consuming more ca and alk than kalk could reliably keep up with. Who'd ha' thought that a 1" clam would get to be 5 ...

And credit for "spendier" goes to my wife

arod2051 · 03/12/2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Masoch
Interestingly, getting a new controller /and/ a couple of Drew's pumps would've been more expensive than getting a LM3. I had no idea that I'd want to be automating a 2-part system, so ...

I agree 100%. I wanted the controller as spendier light timer. Might as well use it for other things too.

I hope this isn't too much of a hijack, but it is on-topic. Are you using a Kalk reactor? I was wondering if you can use a small Koralia nano on a controller to time the mixing and prevent the dosing for a few minutes after the mixing has occurred. All this would occur in the normal reservoir area.

Masoch · 03/12/2009, 02:11 PM

For the 40, I have a Tunze ATO + their sorta' kinda' kalk reactor. It doesn't have a stirring pump, but the output is, consistently, saturated (or nearly so) kalk.

If you haven't seen one, it's a basically a pop bottle with thicker plastic, wider top, a nipple for air hose near the top, and another nipple near the bottom. The ATO pushes water into the bottom of the reactor, which stirs the kalk a bit, and the kalkwasser comes out the top and goes into the tank. Since my sump's tiny, the top-off only dumps a half liter of kalkwasser into the tank at a time, and the reactor holds 1 or 1.5 litres of water.

I put one check valve on the output to the tank and one on the input to the reactor.

bosborn1 · 03/12/2009, 03:03 PM

I've been looking at either the LM with 3 total pumps or the stand-alone GHL Profilux 4 channel doser.

As far as cost I figure that automating the two-part will cost about the same as a CaRx setup. So as long as I can keep it under $700 I figure its low cost.

One thing I can recommend not using is the Aquamedic units. I use one for my ATO and I can't trust that for something as sensitive as the Alk/Calc balance.

The Drew's was my next option. I like that with both the GHL and the LM you can program the exact amount and spread it out over the day without doing the math and setting timers. The other plus with the LM is that I could also add the W/C module and automate that too with the same unit. The Drew's is very tempting as the cost is extremely low considering I already have a controller. I think you could go with two or 3 Drew's and still pick up one of those sweet two head commercial units on ebay for auto W/Cs and be at a price that would beat the other two options.

FWIW I would never consider the Tom's for that use. Its too variable. For the cost savings its not worth the potential disaster.

d-maz · 03/12/2009, 04:03 PM

Do you guys have to shake up the alk and cal bottles? Don`t most 2 parts have to be shaken before dosing or is it just a habit that I`ve gotten into?

I started dosing 2 part about 2 months ago and I`m already sick of adding 3 capfulls a day. I`m looking to get something more stable and more autimated.

03/10/2009, 07:02 PM	#1
ZURCSREEF Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl Posts: 2,347	Dosing BRS Two-Part - Automatically... I will be dosing Bulk Reef Supply's two part deluxe package and wanted to know what kind of ideas you all might have about doing this automatically everyday? If you have this setup, please post pictures and explanation. I have a AC3Pro and would like to put this sucker to use Thanks, -Mike C.

03/11/2009, 12:07 AM	#5
madadi ReefOG Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Morton grove, IL Posts: 3,976	if you already have the AC all you need is a cheap pump. the peristaltic would be the best the i think an aqualifter pump could work well. just have to prevent a siphon when the pumps stop so put some check valves. at 10 dollars each, you cant go wrong so give it a try. you can also dial them back so they run at a lower GPM with a small ball valve. __________________ -~adrian~- LETS TRADE YUMAS Current Tank Info: Glass box.

03/10/2009, 07:46 PM	#2
qfrisco Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Area Posts: 1,389	I haven't done this yet, but I plan to use a couple Drew's Dosing Pumps (from BRS), each controlled via my AC3. Just measure the dosing rate of the pumps you get, then have your AC3Pro turn the pumps on for the appropriate amount of time.

03/10/2009, 10:35 PM	#3
ZURCSREEF Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl Posts: 2,347	Thank you, was looking into that, but was hoping to find something a bit more wallet friendly as those pumps run for $85 a piece and I am going to need atleast 2-3. -Mike C.

03/10/2009, 10:44 PM	#4
greenmonkey51 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,092	You could do it with gravity, but its not as consistent. I also imagine that on a larger system like you have you'll be dosing quite a bit more and your prep containers would be bigger. Overall the pumps are the best option.

03/11/2009, 08:19 AM	#7
kretzkiller Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: KC Posts: 599	go with the aqua lifter. I use a valve on mine to control the flow. It drips my alk supplement 24/7, which I have mixed in with my top off water. I am currently in the process of getting one setup to dose calcium.

03/11/2009, 05:32 PM	#10
THE ROOK Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Springfield, MA Posts: 2,100	Zurcsreef - FYI there was a couple of brand new drew's pumps in the for sale section yesterday, I believe. That said, please report back with you find on the grainger pump. Always looking for a new, affordable method.

03/12/2009, 06:20 AM	#11
arod2051 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 203	I have been running a test between peristaltic and diaphragm pumps. Specifically, Drew's vs Tom's pumps. My data and initial results are complete but I am still dialing in another aqualifter with a different pinch valve. The thread is here on my local club site. What I've found is that Drew's pumps have very little variance. My goals is to dose about 50 mL over the course of the evening. I can achieve that goal with 28 minutes of dosing on one pump and 32 minutes of dosing on another. I am planning to use an ACjr to split the the dosing up by 7 or 8 sessions of 4-minutes each during the lights-off time. The aqualifter has been a pain to dial-in. I have tried about 5 different valves. My latest result will be posted with a new valve. But after a few moments of tweaking I am finding it to have a rather tight distribution. I had to make tradeoffs, like faster flow-rate. Can you provide a link to the Grainger pump? It sounds like you are getting a 'homeboy' hookup so it may not be cost-effective for normal reefers.

03/12/2009, 07:12 AM	#12
catman78 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: LI N.Y. Posts: 765	ZURCSREEF When using Drews dosing pumps is it necessary to use ports 4 and 8 on DC8? These are mechanical switches. I've seen on old forums this was the case due to low current draw of pumps. Can you please comment, as I'll be using an ACJr. with Drews and will need to free up ports if this is the case. Thanks Mark

03/12/2009, 07:19 AM	#13
catman78 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: LI N.Y. Posts: 765	ZURCSREEF When using Drews dosing pumps is it necessary to use ports 4 and 8 on DC8? These are mechanical switches. I've seen on old forums this was the case due to low current draw of pumps. Can you please comment, as I'll be using an ACJr. with Drews and will need to free up ports if this is the case. Thanks Mark

03/12/2009, 07:22 AM	#14
catman78 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: LI N.Y. Posts: 765	Sorry ZURCSREEF my question was to: GatorWPB or arod2051 double post AAAHH

03/12/2009, 07:42 AM	#15
arod2051 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 203	Mark, I have not setup the ACjr yet. My test was run on a digital timer. I've spent two weeks trying to calibrate the ACjr timer using the leap second it is a PITA. I just cracked open the DC8 manual and it does state that low "power-factor" devices should be put on Ports 4 and 8. I don't know if the Drew's dosing pump qualifies as a low power factor device. I am planning to move my test setup into my tank and use the ACjr for future testing. I'll do this this weekend and will post up again. I'll test out other outlet ports since I'll only be running freshwater into freshwater.

03/12/2009, 08:07 AM	#16
catman78 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: LI N.Y. Posts: 765	Thanks arod2051, looking forward to your observations. Great thread on local site. LOL, attention span of a Soybean...

03/12/2009, 11:29 AM	#18
BrassMonkey Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Palm Beach Posts: 950	here is what i just did. masterflex 6-600 rpm motor, with masterflex 7013. $75 nos masterflex 7013 $32 5 ft hose and barbs. $20

03/12/2009, 11:40 AM	#19
Masoch Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 549	The Spectrapure Litre Meter 3 is a good choice -- you calibrate the pumps, then set how much you want each pump to deliver. The LM3 controller will automatically split up the total dose over the course of a day in a bunch of small doses. I've one on my 40 (with 2 pumps), and like it a lot. For the 20, I have a Reefkeeper Lite with 2 of Drew's pumps. Since you can set each channel to be on for 1 minute intervals, it was easy enough to set the alk to come on for, IIRC, 16 minutes of alk at 3:00AM and 15 minutes of Ca at 3:00PM. Works like a charm -- but this method needs timers that can be fine-tuned. The RK2 on the 40 only turns on channels in 15 minute intervals, so I went with the spendier LM3.

03/12/2009, 11:53 AM	#20
arod2051 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 203	I would have loved to get the LiterMeter 3 but it is in another price class. I would go this route if you want to eliminate a single point-of-failure in the Aquacontroller. Or, if you have no plans in using a separate controller at all. The AC3Pro and the ACjr have 1-minute intervals for the timer. I thought this was crap, but I had no idea the RK2 had 15-minute granularity. "Spendier" is awesome. I am going to use that term from now on.

03/12/2009, 02:11 PM	#23
Masoch Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 549	For the 40, I have a Tunze ATO + their sorta' kinda' kalk reactor. It doesn't have a stirring pump, but the output is, consistently, saturated (or nearly so) kalk. If you haven't seen one, it's a basically a pop bottle with thicker plastic, wider top, a nipple for air hose near the top, and another nipple near the bottom. The ATO pushes water into the bottom of the reactor, which stirs the kalk a bit, and the kalkwasser comes out the top and goes into the tank. Since my sump's tiny, the top-off only dumps a half liter of kalkwasser into the tank at a time, and the reactor holds 1 or 1.5 litres of water. I put one check valve on the output to the tank and one on the input to the reactor.

03/12/2009, 03:03 PM	#24
bosborn1 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fairport, NY Posts: 2,579	I've been looking at either the LM with 3 total pumps or the stand-alone GHL Profilux 4 channel doser. As far as cost I figure that automating the two-part will cost about the same as a CaRx setup. So as long as I can keep it under $700 I figure its low cost. One thing I can recommend not using is the Aquamedic units. I use one for my ATO and I can't trust that for something as sensitive as the Alk/Calc balance. The Drew's was my next option. I like that with both the GHL and the LM you can program the exact amount and spread it out over the day without doing the math and setting timers. The other plus with the LM is that I could also add the W/C module and automate that too with the same unit. The Drew's is very tempting as the cost is extremely low considering I already have a controller. I think you could go with two or 3 Drew's and still pick up one of those sweet two head commercial units on ebay for auto W/Cs and be at a price that would beat the other two options. FWIW I would never consider the Tom's for that use. Its too variable. For the cost savings its not worth the potential disaster.

03/12/2009, 04:03 PM	#25
d-maz Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 539	Do you guys have to shake up the alk and cal bottles? Don`t most 2 parts have to be shaken before dosing or is it just a habit that I`ve gotten into? I started dosing 2 part about 2 months ago and I`m already sick of adding 3 capfulls a day. I`m looking to get something more stable and more autimated.