Livestock for Refugium

wbsa84 · 03/13/2009, 10:15 AM

Any suggestions on what livestock to put in a refugium. I have a 30 gallon refugium with Deep sand bed, small amount of LR; chaeto; and plenty of current; and a few peppermint shrimp; I was trying to figure out fish and/or coral to the fuge.

thanks.

kraze3 · 03/13/2009, 10:24 AM

i have a small kenya tree in mine and some snails. You can put a fish if you like but there is no need.

CSoli921 · 03/13/2009, 11:39 AM

I think you should add some mangroves to your refugium. They are great at nutrient export and it's fun to watch them grow.

reeferstace · 03/13/2009, 11:54 AM

Get some macroalgae/seagrasses. Check out reefcleaners.org

I did that with a 40breeder and added a pair of Oscellaris clowns. They share their love nest with no other fish.

Uncle Salty 05 · 03/13/2009, 01:10 PM

DO NOT PUT FISH OR CRABS IN A REFUGIUM.
If you do it is no longer a refugium. The purpose of a refugium is to create an environment where pods etc. can grow and reproduce in the abscence of predators.

macreefster · 03/13/2009, 01:13 PM

i agree with salty. if its a true refugium, providing a refuge for copepods and amphipods to multiply, then you dont want anything preying upon them. even corals. if its just a tank to grow chaeto for some nutrient export i guess you could put whatever you want in there.

chimmike · 03/13/2009, 01:13 PM

I have hermits in my fuge because they eat the detritus that comes thru. Pods are a plenty.

double0banks · 03/13/2009, 01:19 PM

I that mangroves are beautiful interesting plants but not ideal for fuge export simply because the rate of growth is so slow and the can be finicky when pruned, occasionally resulting in death. If you want one simply because they are beautiful, unique, and do aid in the process I would highly advise you to get one, but for a true workhorse you cant really beat the ease, safety, and reliability of cheato. Keep it rolling and pruned and you'll have all the macro you need.

CSoli921 · 03/13/2009, 02:05 PM

I have read a lot about mangroves being slow growers. I haven't had mine for long and they have been growing rapidly. I also have chaetomorpha with my mangroves. I guess I don't know for certain then how much nutrients they export.

double0banks · 03/13/2009, 02:11 PM

Anthony calfo wrote a piece on choosing what macro is best for your refuge. Its under his discussion favorite links over on marinedepot's forums. Pretty good read. Basically compars all the macros commonly used in this hobby and gives the pros/cons to each.....as a side note, if your mangroves are growing quickly AND you have cheato then your in really good shape in regards to your veggie filter.

wbsa84 · 03/13/2009, 03:00 PM

Thanks for the insight. I'll stay away from the livestock. What about water circulation? At times I do get some cyano in the refugium. People are telling me to keep the water circ high to mitigate the cyano. I've had kent's Bio-sediment as a substrate in the refuge for a long time (about 4" sand bed). Do I ever need to change this out?

Also, how do you keep the chaeto tumbling?

thanks again.

CSoli921 · 03/13/2009, 03:03 PM

I couldn't get my chaeto to tumble, so I flip it over every so often. You want all sides to get light.

ALLANSAM · 03/13/2009, 03:26 PM

I love my refugium. I just have some live rock and some cheato. plus a 6 inch deep sand bed

reefscape15 · 03/13/2009, 04:31 PM

I agree somewhat with salty, but also it's possible to keep some animals in a fuge, and have a healthy pod population. I keep some Nassarius snails in my fuge just to keep the sand stirred a bit, and i have tons of pods in there. There is one spot that they are so thick it looks almost like a cloud in the water!

woodycb · 03/13/2009, 04:57 PM

what about a mud substrate

wbsa84 · 03/13/2009, 05:04 PM

Does anyone use the Kent Bio Sediment? Is there any limit on how long you can keep it for the substrate? It's a pretty thick bed and I've noticed bacteria trapped in some of the layers.

thank you.

reefscape15 · 03/13/2009, 07:44 PM

I use about 3-4" of Kent in my fuge. There is one dark spot if you look through the bottom of it, but mostly my snails keep it stirred. Is that a 92 corner bow your setting up?

cardiffgiant · 03/13/2009, 08:16 PM

I had sand in my old fuge and it seemed to trap a lot of detritus. I just set up my new one and went bare bottom, with a little bit of rubble for pods.

reefscape15 · 03/13/2009, 08:19 PM

I forgot to mention i dumped a handful of small brittle stars in my fuge along with the snails. There is some detritus, but it doesn't really concern me. It's a very natural part of any system, and helps feed the pods

wbsa84 · 03/13/2009, 08:43 PM

I've had a 92 corner bow for about 2 years. Do the brittle stars bother the copepods?

double0banks · 03/13/2009, 09:52 PM

first off i dont know much about the mud but a normal DSB should not need to be replaced and those that say they will become saturated and leach eventually are wrong. With a normal bioload/ veggie filter/ dDSB combo the sand bed should be perfectly fine for several years (at least) As for use of snails to stir the sand bed, this is counter productive. Look into how a DSB works and you'll see stirring is a big no no. HUGE read on DSB's i'd advise anyone with some time to read. Its written by Anthony Calfo on the marine depot forums. Just my 2 cents. Best of luck

LobsterOfJustice · 03/14/2009, 08:20 AM

You could put some sexy shrimp, pom-pom crabs, and porcelain crabs in it. They shouldnt harm a pod population and a refugium would be the ideal place for small cryptic creatures like these.

reefscape15 · 03/14/2009, 10:07 PM

wbsa84 - Check out this thread!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1592474

lockekeyy · 03/14/2009, 10:23 PM

I heard peppermint shrimp can severely deplete pods population. Can anyone bust or confirm this for me?

03/13/2009, 10:15 AM	#1
wbsa84 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10	Livestock for Refugium Any suggestions on what livestock to put in a refugium. I have a 30 gallon refugium with Deep sand bed, small amount of LR; chaeto; and plenty of current; and a few peppermint shrimp; I was trying to figure out fish and/or coral to the fuge. thanks.

03/13/2009, 11:54 AM	#4
reeferstace I'm a little people Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Over Yonder Posts: 1,392	Get some macroalgae/seagrasses. Check out reefcleaners.org I did that with a 40breeder and added a pair of Oscellaris clowns. They share their love nest with no other fish. __________________ Stacy

03/13/2009, 01:10 PM	#5
Uncle Salty 05 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,799	DO NOT PUT FISH OR CRABS IN A REFUGIUM. If you do it is no longer a refugium. The purpose of a refugium is to create an environment where pods etc. can grow and reproduce in the abscence of predators. __________________ In all that I endure, of one thing I am sure. Knowledge and reason, change like the season. A jester's promenade. - Kerry Livgren Current Tank Info: 180 gal reef tank with dual attached refugiums 20 long and 10 gallon. Plus 55 gallon True Percula breeding tank.

03/13/2009, 01:13 PM	#6
macreefster Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: michigan Posts: 1,015	i agree with salty. if its a true refugium, providing a refuge for copepods and amphipods to multiply, then you dont want anything preying upon them. even corals. if its just a tank to grow chaeto for some nutrient export i guess you could put whatever you want in there. __________________ mac Current Tank Info: 70gal sps reef (36x24x20), 50g sump, 25g refugium, vertex alpha cone 170, 2 x 250w 14k phoenix w/ lumenmax 3's, 2 vortech mp40w's, eheim 1262 return pump

03/13/2009, 01:13 PM	#7
chimmike oxygen abuser Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Parrish, FL Posts: 5,089 Blog Entries: 2	I have hermits in my fuge because they eat the detritus that comes thru. Pods are a plenty. __________________ -Mike Tankless wonder Geaux Noles!

03/13/2009, 10:24 AM	#2
kraze3 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: RI Posts: 2,373	i have a small kenya tree in mine and some snails. You can put a fish if you like but there is no need.

03/13/2009, 11:39 AM	#3
CSoli921 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 50	I think you should add some mangroves to your refugium. They are great at nutrient export and it's fun to watch them grow.

03/13/2009, 01:19 PM	#8
double0banks Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: MA Posts: 135	I that mangroves are beautiful interesting plants but not ideal for fuge export simply because the rate of growth is so slow and the can be finicky when pruned, occasionally resulting in death. If you want one simply because they are beautiful, unique, and do aid in the process I would highly advise you to get one, but for a true workhorse you cant really beat the ease, safety, and reliability of cheato. Keep it rolling and pruned and you'll have all the macro you need. __________________ be careful with that thing, you drop that bannana and BOOM we're all done for! Current Tank Info: in the process

03/13/2009, 02:05 PM	#9
CSoli921 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 50	I have read a lot about mangroves being slow growers. I haven't had mine for long and they have been growing rapidly. I also have chaetomorpha with my mangroves. I guess I don't know for certain then how much nutrients they export.

03/13/2009, 02:11 PM	#10
double0banks Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: MA Posts: 135	Anthony calfo wrote a piece on choosing what macro is best for your refuge. Its under his discussion favorite links over on marinedepot's forums. Pretty good read. Basically compars all the macros commonly used in this hobby and gives the pros/cons to each.....as a side note, if your mangroves are growing quickly AND you have cheato then your in really good shape in regards to your veggie filter. __________________ be careful with that thing, you drop that bannana and BOOM we're all done for! Current Tank Info: in the process

03/13/2009, 03:00 PM	#11
wbsa84 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10	Thanks for the insight. I'll stay away from the livestock. What about water circulation? At times I do get some cyano in the refugium. People are telling me to keep the water circ high to mitigate the cyano. I've had kent's Bio-sediment as a substrate in the refuge for a long time (about 4" sand bed). Do I ever need to change this out? Also, how do you keep the chaeto tumbling? thanks again.

03/13/2009, 03:03 PM	#12
CSoli921 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 50	I couldn't get my chaeto to tumble, so I flip it over every so often. You want all sides to get light.

03/13/2009, 03:26 PM	#13
ALLANSAM Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: KENTUCKY Posts: 57	I love my refugium. I just have some live rock and some cheato. plus a 6 inch deep sand bed

03/13/2009, 04:31 PM	#14
reefscape15 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Elmira Heights, NY Posts: 2,812	I agree somewhat with salty, but also it's possible to keep some animals in a fuge, and have a healthy pod population. I keep some Nassarius snails in my fuge just to keep the sand stirred a bit, and i have tons of pods in there. There is one spot that they are so thick it looks almost like a cloud in the water! __________________ A new beginning........... JIM Current Tank Info: 5g standard softie/zoa tank, just starting a 20H

03/13/2009, 04:57 PM	#15
woodycb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: N.W. Ohio Posts: 785	what about a mud substrate __________________ We have enough youth, how about a fountain of SMART Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

03/13/2009, 05:04 PM	#16
wbsa84 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10	Does anyone use the Kent Bio Sediment? Is there any limit on how long you can keep it for the substrate? It's a pretty thick bed and I've noticed bacteria trapped in some of the layers. thank you.

03/13/2009, 07:44 PM	#17
reefscape15 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Elmira Heights, NY Posts: 2,812	I use about 3-4" of Kent in my fuge. There is one dark spot if you look through the bottom of it, but mostly my snails keep it stirred. Is that a 92 corner bow your setting up? __________________ A new beginning........... JIM Current Tank Info: 5g standard softie/zoa tank, just starting a 20H

03/13/2009, 08:16 PM	#18
cardiffgiant Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 3,455	I had sand in my old fuge and it seemed to trap a lot of detritus. I just set up my new one and went bare bottom, with a little bit of rubble for pods.

03/13/2009, 08:19 PM	#19
reefscape15 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Elmira Heights, NY Posts: 2,812	I forgot to mention i dumped a handful of small brittle stars in my fuge along with the snails. There is some detritus, but it doesn't really concern me. It's a very natural part of any system, and helps feed the pods __________________ A new beginning........... JIM Current Tank Info: 5g standard softie/zoa tank, just starting a 20H

03/13/2009, 08:43 PM	#20
wbsa84 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10	I've had a 92 corner bow for about 2 years. Do the brittle stars bother the copepods?

03/13/2009, 09:52 PM	#21
double0banks Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: MA Posts: 135	first off i dont know much about the mud but a normal DSB should not need to be replaced and those that say they will become saturated and leach eventually are wrong. With a normal bioload/ veggie filter/ dDSB combo the sand bed should be perfectly fine for several years (at least) As for use of snails to stir the sand bed, this is counter productive. Look into how a DSB works and you'll see stirring is a big no no. HUGE read on DSB's i'd advise anyone with some time to read. Its written by Anthony Calfo on the marine depot forums. Just my 2 cents. Best of luck __________________ be careful with that thing, you drop that bannana and BOOM we're all done for! Current Tank Info: in the process

03/14/2009, 08:20 AM	#22
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	You could put some sexy shrimp, pom-pom crabs, and porcelain crabs in it. They shouldnt harm a pod population and a refugium would be the ideal place for small cryptic creatures like these. __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

03/14/2009, 10:07 PM	#23
reefscape15 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Elmira Heights, NY Posts: 2,812	wbsa84 - Check out this thread! http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1592474 __________________ A new beginning........... JIM Current Tank Info: 5g standard softie/zoa tank, just starting a 20H

03/14/2009, 10:23 PM	#24
lockekeyy Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 1,027	I heard peppermint shrimp can severely deplete pods population. Can anyone bust or confirm this for me? __________________ I attribute the little I know to my not having been ashamed to ask for information - John Locke