Need Help - Dont want a Flood

[Cbravo212]

I am plumbing my return line back to my DT from my sump. I am going through the bulkhead so everything is below the waterline. Nothing hanging over the top. How do I keep something like that from siphoning down in the event of a powerloss. There are no holes in the flex piece pipe and it threads straight to the bulkhead. Do I need to put a hole in the dishcharge line right at the bulkhead inside the tank to act as a siphon breaker?

Thanks.

[trippkid]

Not 100% sure what you are talking about, but where you come through with the bulkhead, do you have a pipe or something going to the top of the tank? And, then have outlet/s at the top? Normally the hole will go 1/4 to 1/2" below the waterline in the tank, on the side or bottom of the outlet, you don't want it drilled so that the water is coming out of the tank or above the water line, you can have salt creep problems if done too close to water's surface, IMO. Also I would use at least an 1/8" bit or bigger for the hole, too small and they plug up and stop working as they should. Can you post a pic or something better explaining what you are doing?
Matt

[cnaegler]

You could always get a check valve like this one.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewIt...s~vendor~.html

[jesterns2]

That check valve is a great idea just make sure its marine safe and wont rust or whatever bad can happen if its not marine safe

[trippkid]

They help, but inevitably will fail, some you can take apart and clean, they would be best, IMO. I would not rely 100% on one of these. I have a big sump, so I really don't worry about any of these things anymore, water just drains to where my return outlets are, the sump handles it all and more room to spare. Siphon breaks(when done right and kept clean) or keeping your return outlets at the very top are the only things I would trust 100%. Just remember to make sure the siphon breaks are free from debris or salt creep from time to time(depends on the hole size). Good luck, I hope you can figure something out that suits you.

[jesterns2]

Aww man I did`nt know they fail. That`s not good but I am glad I found out now I will definetly not use one when I make my sump. Trippkid i`m glad you said that, thankyou. I really don`t want a flood!

[jesterns2]

Hey trippkid, I see you`r from PA. Me too near Pittsburgh

[cnaegler]

Yeah, i see how they could fail but i would think it's from a lack of husbandry. They also make them that can be taken apart and cleaned as well. Just an idea.
My sumps are also large enough to handle whatever drains back into them.

[trippkid]

Not a problem, and as far as the take apart ones, I would ask myself, How much of a hassle would it be to take out of the return line and clean from time to time, I guess two unions and a ball valve above it, but still would be too much for me to do consistently, just me though.

No, I live near Harrisburg, where all the legal crooks are. Been out that way a couple of times for Motocross races. Have a good one.
Matt

cneagler, I agree a bigger sump is the way to go, and sorry if it sounds like I am going against what you have said, not my intention, just my experiences over the years. Have a good weekend, fellow SPS addict.
Matt

[mustang51js]

how far down from the top of the tank are your holes, the only way i think you could not have a big siphon if your holes are low would be to plum a pipe to the water level from your return hole. You couls use the check valve but i wouldnt take a chance anymore on them, that is from experience.So you need to get your return line at least an inch or 2 from the water line or get a really big sump to hold the water.

[cnaegler]

Originally posted by trippkid
Not a problem, and as far as the take apart ones, I would ask myself, How much of a hassle would it be to take out of the return line and clean from time to time, I guess two unions and a ball valve above it, but still would be too much for me to do consistently, just me though.

No, I live near Harrisburg, where all the legal crooks are. Been out that way a couple of times for Motocross races. Have a good one.
Matt

cneagler, I agree a bigger sump is the way to go, and sorry if it sounds like I am going against what you have said, not my intention, just my experiences over the years. Have a good weekend, fellow SPS addict.
Matt

No offense taken, trippkid. Yeah, i must say that taking apart a check valve to clean it would not be very high on my to-do list, i can tell ya. I was just trying to come up with a few options.

[trippkid]

Rock on, I just feel bad if someone takes something out of context( I know I do from time to time). I find it very hard sometimes to convey/understand "tones" on the net. Have a good weekend.
Matt

[Cbravo212]

Thanks for the great replies. I would take a picture to explain, but they sent me the wrong size hole saw. I received the one for a 1/2" return. I should have the right one tomorrow.

I have not drilled the tank. I have for the overflow, but like above, I do not have the bit yet. Here is the return kit that I got from glass holes.




The flex hose screws directly into the bulkhead. Of course, I would like the hose to curve around and not be right at the surface of the water. I was thinking drilling a 1/8" hole in the fitting that screws into the bulkhead. I would drill it on the bottom side to prevent salt creep or spray.

The big sump is just not an option, at least right now. This stupid base I got with the tank (used) is only 10 1/2" inside. This prevents me from even having a 20L as a sump. So I am using a 10g tank as the skimmer and return areas, and a water jug rigged as the fuge. I hope to post pictures of this hideous design once I get it done.

Just did not want to rush into anything with the return until I got some of yalls expert advice.

PS - I did have a pvc checkvalve and actually hooked it up to my return pump to get an idea of press loss with the spring. Just heard too many people say to stay away from them.

Thanks,
Mike

[cnaegler]

Originally posted by trippkid
Rock on, I just feel bad if someone takes something out of context( I know I do from time to time). I find it very hard sometimes to convey/understand "tones" on the net. Have a good weekend.
Matt

Ditto. You have a good weekend as well.

[trippkid]

Are you drilling the the back or side of the tank near the top or bottom, if you are not using an internal overflow(weir), even then I still would be a little leery if it was a DIY overflow, in case the sealed failed at the bottom, I would stay away from the near the bottom, I probably would do that as close to the top as I could. I hope I am helping not hindering you here, just say, I'll be quiet. Just remember, it will drain until it can suck air, so either the siphon break or the return nozzle outlet, needs to be very close to the surface, especially with a small sump. I am sure you can figure something out, just think it through before cutting any holes. Good luck.
Matt

[mustang51js]

the water will only siphon back down as far down as your return line, so if you keep it an inch or so below water level once the water line reaches it ,it will let air in and stop the siphon,so if your using the 10g as your sump it doesnt leave you alot of room for water. I would drill the holeabout 2 inches below the top of the tank and with the flex pipe have it come up and horizontal with the wter line, maybe a little kick down so its not just pushing the water at the water line,this way if power goes out it wont be much water going into the sump

[Cbravo212]

http://www.glass-holes.com/product.s...=3&productId=5


This is the overflow I am using. Drilled that hole the other day. It looks great and the video they show it is very quiet. The return is flexible so what I was thinking was having a hump in it so the middle is near the water line and that is where I would drill the anti siphon hole. I could then point the outlet down or wherever I wanted. (Basically just what Mustang said, thanks by the way, I think that will work)

I do not mind your replies at all. I like the attention that you get on these boards and what you are saying is only helping me more. Keep it coming. Like I said, I will try and post pics and by all means, If I am doing something stupid, please let me know.

Mike

Edit: Both holes will be drilled at the top back, one for a 1 1/2" drain and one for a 3/4" return to the DT.

[trippkid]

I re-read your post, and I am assuming you will drill near the top, sorry for the stuff about doing it near the bottom, yes you can do what you said but, like I said it will drain till it hit the air. I would drill my hole(glass) at the very top, then run my return nozzle at the surface too, a siphon break hole in the side of the fitting or the "Loc-Line"(flexible part), so that you have a minimal amt. of back-flow. I know I hate it when you don't have enough room for a bigger sump under the stand. You may be able to find something custom(custom tank, DIY, or something suitable out of a food grade plastic, acrylic) that is taller and would hold a little more volume if you need to in the end.
Matt

[trippkid]

can I ask why such a big drain and small return hole, a 1.5" bulkhead can flow up to 1500gph on the drain side, that is way too much, IMO for a 10 gallon sump. Of course it will only drain as much as the return pumps puts back up to the tank, but if you use a small return pump, you may have some noise issue with drain line, I am not sure on this and can depend on the design of the drain. Too big of a pump, and I think it is just way too much flow through the sump to be processed properly, you only really need about 5X's tank volume at the most going through the sump, even less like 2 or 3X's seems to be the way to go these days.
Matt

[mustang51js]

what you said would work but you have to keep an eye on it from time to time to make sure it isnt clogged, i have my tank set up temperary like this for now until i can transfer to a 125, i have my returns that come up and over the tank and stop about 2 inches below the water line, then i drilled a 1/4 to 1/2 hole right below the water line because i went small with the hole at first and it wasnt big enough to let the air in. So i would do what you said, unplug it a couple of times to make sure you get enough air in it to stop a siphon and see how much water you lose to make sure the sump can hold it. You might be able to get a rubbermaid container that holds more water because with a 10g it doesnt give you much room to mess up(say a snail is over the hole you drilled and power goes out), but make the hole at least a 1/4 inch.I didnt want to make the hole big when i first did it because i thought the water would go out the hole first but it actually doesnt come out the hole at all