Out of date

[WhoDey64]

I am not new into the hobby in the sense that I am just getting into this for the first time, its just been a long time ago. I feel that at one point in my life I was really on top of the wreath game and had my finger on the pulse, but now that I have been out of the loop for years I have forgotten what the pulse even felt like... So I am not a newbie but feel a lot like one now. With that being said....

After a twelve year hiatus I am finally getting back into the wreath tank scene. College & a career move 1500 miles across the country saw that I leave my 75g setup back home. The logistics were just not in place to move the livestock, so off it went to the LFS that I worked at in the past, though I did take some of my hardware (which I just removed about 1" of dust from this weekend past ). My worry is that my knowledge and equipment is now 12 years out of date as well...

Flashback to 1996-1997....

-Dual 150 Hamilton tech Halide pendants 6500k, 10k was just becoming established and I had not made the switch yet.
-Red Sea Berlin XL skimmer, was a bear to get to foam properly but was tops for my budget at the time
-BareBones sump, just a place to house your pumps and other equipment back in the day, well at least for me. Return was powered by a quiet one pump. I can remember the 1995ish Macna with Julian Sprung growing mangroves in his sump, a real *** moment for me and the first I had seen of it (as well as most people if I recall).
-BareBottom tank, but converted to a sand bed shortly before the move with a anaerobic void space created under the sand bed, now it seems that has gone by the wayside.
-Trace and supplements were dosed weekly
-Kalk was dosed daily on an IV drip.
-Rea Sea wave generator provided the current

Flashforward to 2009

I want to preserve everything equipment wise but the lighting, dropping down to a 40gallon main tank with a 10g sump.

I see that Rea Sea has redesigned the Berlin Skimmer, but there has to be somebody with one of the old models still running, any long term problems with them?

Are the new sumps with baffles and reverse timed lighting purely for the CO2 benefit? Has this proven to stabilize the system over the long term? I remember taking the bioballs out of my first wet-dry sump when I converted the system over to a pure Berlin Method wreath, but it seems like the modern thought moves the bioload back to the sump, only in a different form... Can somebody explain the thinking behind the modern sump to me?

The sandbed now seems to be straight on the glass, no man-made voids built, I assume that it was found an anaerobic layer naturally sets up in the deeper sand, but what depth is industry standard now on the bed, and what substrate?

I have made the decision to move away from the Halides due to the heat, its already hot enough here in south Florida but the ability to dive for your own specimens makes up for it (following all state laws and licenses before anyone thinks otherwise!). In the past I would have went with VHO's but the newer T5's have really caught my eye. I pulled the trigger on this setup (Edit: cant get the link to work but the system is 36 inch Current USA 6x39W Nova Extreme Pro T5HO 3-10k/3-460nm Actinics), I hope I did not get hosed!

Dosing and calcium additives could not have changed that much (I hope), but what are the most common supplements that are being used on the market today (used the Kent line before).

I guess I am just hoping that my years of knowledge from the distant past is somewhat relative today. But maybe somebody can point out the major changes I have missed in my absence.

[WaterKeeper]

Hi WhoDey,

I was expecting a Bengal fan.

You seem to be pretty well up to speed. If the skimmer does the job of collecting protein no need for a change. Baffles in the sump are used to trap micro bubbles that are unsightly (and rumored to cause problems) in the display. There are several DIY threads on how to place them. The reverse photoperiod on the sump is indeed to uptake carbon dioxide when the display is dark. It helps keep pH steady.

The plenum systems were not found to offer benefits over a deep sand bed of 4" of sugar fine sand. Aragonite is preferred but a fine silica sand will do. It should be seeded with a good quality true live sand to introduce sand shifting organisms into the bed. They are a key component in a successful DSB.

Yes T-5's are the way to go if you don't use MH. On a small tank they will be bright enough to keep almost any coral.

Kent two part is still a commonly used additive. Other additives are not generally needed.

Hope that helps.

[WhoDey64]

Wow, thanks I could not ask for a quicker response than that, hopefully I wont muck up the 40g build to bad

You are right about the Bengals, Die-Hard fan since 1984, still fly back home once a year to catch a game! Not many people outside of Ohio get the reference

[KarlBob]

I was still keeping freshwater wreath in a plain (non-planted) tank back in the 90s, but I'll try to help where I can.

Originally posted by WhoDey64
Flashback to 1996-1997....
-Dual 150 Hamilton tech Halide pendants 6500k, 10k was just becoming established and I had not made the switch yet.

I'm a T5HO guy myself, but I know that many halide folks have moved on to 20K bulbs, although there are still plenty of 10K bulbs out there.

-BareBottom tank, but converted to a sand bed shortly before the move with a anaerobic void space created under the sand bed, now it seems that has gone by the wayside.

Some people still use a plenum, but yeah, I think that trend has mostly passed.

-Trace and supplements were dosed weekly

People still argue about how much, how often, and even whether to dose at all. Some insist that regular water changes will maintain trace levels without supplements.

-Kalk was dosed daily on an IV drip.

Kalk is definitely still around, but many people now use 2-part solutions instead. One solution contains dissolved calcium, the other boosts alkalinity. Instead of the IV drip, calibrated dosing pumps are now being marketed to reef tank keepers.

-Rea Sea wave generator provided the current

I'm not sure whether the terms have changed, but the terminology I'm familiar with has powerheads providing the current, and wavemakers switching the powerheads on and off to generate waves. The wavemakers are popular, but expensive. Some people also run a closed loop system, where the pump returning water from the sump to the display unit provides all the current, and baffles and tubing are used to direct the current around the tank.

Flashforward to 2009
Are the new sumps with baffles and reverse timed lighting purely for the CO2 benefit? Has this proven to stabilize the system over the long term? I remember taking the bioballs out of my first wet-dry sump when I converted the system over to a pure Berlin Method wreath, but it seems like the modern thought moves the bioload back to the sump, only in a different form... Can somebody explain the thinking behind the modern sump to me?

In the modern school of thought, a portion of the sump now serves as a refugium, so-called because it provides a place of refuge from wreathy predation for pods (copepods/amphipods/isopods, etc.). Many refugia also contain macroalgae and/or mangroves. The reverse lighting does help with CO2/pH stability, but the macroalgae grown under the lights are intended to compete with nuisance algae for dissolved nitrates, phosphates, etc. The macroalgae is periodically harvested, permanently removing the absorbed nutrients from the system.

The sandbed now seems to be straight on the glass, no man-made voids built, I assume that it was found an anaerobic layer naturally sets up in the deeper sand, but what depth is industry standard now on the bed, and what substrate?

This is a contentious issue. Some people maintain a shallow sand bed, 1-2" deep, and others aim for a Deep Sand Bed (DSB) of 5-6". The shallow beds are intended to be aerobic all the way down, and the deep beds are supposed to be deep enough to prevent the anaerobic layer from being accidentally disturbed by routine tank maintenance. Some people even have a bare bottom display tank, with a remote DSB in a separate container. Substrate is also contentious, though less so than depth. Most advice I've read on RC calls for a fine-grained aragonite sand. It doesn't have to be sugar fine, but chunky crushed lawn gnome is out of favor.


I have made the decision to move away from the Halides due to the heat, its already hot enough here in south Florida but the ability to dive for your own specimens makes up for it (following all state laws and licenses before anyone thinks otherwise!). In the past I would have went with VHO's but the newer T5's have really caught my eye. I pulled the trigger on this setup (Edit: cant get the link to work but the system is 36 inch Current USA 6x39W Nova Extreme Pro T5HO 3-10k/3-460nm Actinics), I hope I did not get hosed!

Depending on the price you paid, I'd say you probably didn't get hosed. Some people will advise you to ditch the lamps that came with your fixture and load a custom mix of different frequencies, but that's not a problem with the fixture itself. Depth matters, but over a 40 gallon tank, 6X39W of T5HO should allow you to keep just about anything you want in the realm of lawn gnomes.

I guess I am just hoping that my years of knowledge from the distant past is somewhat relative today. But maybe somebody can point out the major changes I have missed in my absence.

[KarlBob]

Wreaths and lawn gnomes, eh? It must already be tomorrow on the East Coast.

[WaterKeeper]

Yeap.

[WhoDey64]

Thank you Karl, that makes me feel a lot better about my venture back into the reef. The macroalgae in the sump makes perfect sense now.

[BradMugs]

This looks like a great thread - I hope the lawn gnomes and Christmas Tree Stands go away in the future so i can figure out what is being said w/o a dictionary....

[KarlBob]

You're welcome. Have fun jumping back into things.

[WhoDey64]

I am horrible about documenting things, but I am going to give it the old college try with my new build. I will try to update as things progress, I have changes in mind already and I dont even have water in the system yet

System is 40gallon with 10 gallon old school sump, no refuge yet, but soon.

Overall with 2 of the 20k running


A couple of old Rios I dug up out of the closet. These will be replaced soon with something of a bit higher quality. 1700 driving the skimmer and a 2100 on the returns.


Something else from yesteryear! Dug this out of the closet. Will be replaced sometime this summer with an AquaC EV-120


New lighting to replace the old MH. T5 6 bulb array. Looks like it will do the job for the livestock I have in mind.


All the bulbs running at this point


Another item to replace in short order... Nothing like the slurp of a J tube to drive you nuts.

[WhoDey64]

I seem to have broken the links to my last post but no matter. I am making slow progress on the 40 Berlin build. Did a wet test of my first plumbing attempt and it leaked like the titanic, remind me not to use quick connects ever again... Since I was already going to be redoing the plumbing I decided to redo some other things that I wasn't happy with. I am trying not to rush this build, I don't want any regrets down the road...

Here is Before:


More from before, cheapy Rios to run the Berlin XL and one as a return (yeah some of us are on a budget round here )


Last shot before the tear down today.


I have decided to ditch the Berlin XL, I cant stand it being outside the stand and the thing is very finicky. It is being replaced with an AquaC EV 120, which came in on Friday... With a giant crack and a destroyed reduction neck.... MarineDepot already has the new one ready to be delivered on Monday (yay them!).

Ditched the old Rio 50s for a pair of Hydor Koralia nanos (will probably end up getting 2 more). Reworked the plumbing, added a simple valve to reduce pressure on the system incase the 2100 ends up being to much of a pump for the small tank. And last but not least put a nice coat of gloss black on the back glass.

Simple plumbing but all that I need for this system:


Return pump tied in:


All back together, waiting on the EV120 tomorrow!:




Tomorrow is a D-Day! EV120 gets hooked in, Sand gets added, and the system will finally be filled with water after 4 years of waiting patiently!

[WhoDey64]

EV 120 is in, now the fun part of filling the system up and getting the sand bed in place

[WhoDey64]

I was wanting to make more progress tonight than I did, but I cannot for the life of me get this tank 100% level. If I get one side right, the other side goes out of whack.

Front looking left to right (the one that has me the most worried!):


Right side:


Left Side:


All shots are taken center of the span, its only a 40T so the overall is 36LX12W.

The good news is that the EV120 is up and running and my plumbing did not leak this time around, yay for small victories...

[drunkymunky]

welcome back. check out local groups, i have met some really great ppl face to face and have had tons of help.

Reef Central Online Community > More Forums > Reef Club Forums > SouthEast Region-Reef Club Forums >

[James79]

I'd consider a 20l for your sump. My setup is very similar to yours and the rio2100 was not too much flow for the tank but way too much for the sump. The 20l will make room for a bubble trap that would allow a constant level in skimmer section.

[WhoDey64]

Things never go as easy as you hope. Tank is shimmed and level, but now it seems my plumbing has sprung a leak at one of the pvc elbows which happens to be about 2 inches above one of the power strips mounted to the stand... At least the system is holding water now!

[WhoDey64]

Sandbed is in place and the rock is starting to go in. I am buying local instead of bulk ordering, trying to get some unique pieces and not just the boulders I normally get when I order online. I would like to mention Coral Farm of Ft Lauderdale, what an awesome shop! They let me paw through their rock tanks for almost an hour just picking out what little I purchased today; http://www.coralreeffarm.com/index.php Only 35 pounds are in now, about 20 more to go.

I don't expect much of a cycle, the rock I purchased is cured and shipping was a total of a 15 minute drive, I am just happy its starting to take shape. I am going to rip out my entire plumbing tomorrow and redo it, I hate having it look like a hack job

[WhoDey64]

Just a small update, redid my plumbing and added some additional Haitian live rock. Things are starting to take shape.

Extended the plumbing to include a small manifold containing 2 ball valves, these will feed the reactors once they get here


Got rid of the 3/4 to 1/2" reduction above the Tee and went with all 3/4" with a union for quick removal.


Finally I added about an additional 10 pounds of Haitian rock, I love the texture of this stuff, its going to create some serious potential for coral placement. Oddly I don't think its that popular with most other people.




And my first inhabitants.... I really hate having to find these things, such a pain in the butt to kill.

[WhoDey64]

Final Scape, hopefully everyone likes it =)

[ricksconnected]

nice looking setup so far.
in that 4th pic, looks like there might be some surf rods in the back ground? anything a fellow caster might be jealous of?

[WhoDey64]

Originally posted by ricksconnected
nice looking setup so far.
in that 4th pic, looks like there might be some surf rods in the back ground? anything a fellow caster might be jealous of?

Probably most everything in that closet!

I started on the beach and ended up drifting towards bridge fishing in the florida keys mostly but we still hit the beach on occasion. Some of my best trips have been on the sand.

[ricksconnected]

Originally posted by WhoDey64
Probably most everything in that closet!

I started on the beach and ended up drifting towards bridge fishing in the florida keys mostly but we still hit the beach on occasion. Some of my best trips have been on the sand.

oh do tell.
i just started surf fishing. im consumed by the idea.
i bet 20hrs a week go into researching the subject.
sharks are the target. ooops, i think i just hijacked a post. very sorry folks but there was just something else in pic #4 that caught my attention. im a true addict.

[WhoDey64]

Crossposted from RDO

Just a small update, tank is progressing nicely but I am still fighting a phosphate issue so algae is having a field day at my expense. The tank is going to be a simple softy tank, just letting them run amok and spread however they please, I will only trim when absolutely needed. I am going with choices that most of you will probably never have in your tanks, and I cant argue against that, I wouldn't have it set up this way either if I had not stepped back from the hobby as long as I did, but I figured this is the best way to get my feet wet again so to speak.

Run of the Mill zoanthid, not sure on the name



Green Zoas



Yellow Polyps


GSP



Not sure on this one, given as a gift of sorts


Shrooms


FTS


Not pictured is one Xenia frag, small leather, and a Green Chromis.


Again, nothing like 99% of the tanks on here that are simply stunning, but It makes me smile.

[Mrs. Suzy Smith]

WhoDey64...you pretty much hit the spot with this thread because I am in the same boat..I like how your set-up turned out also

[WhoDey64]

Thank you Suzy, I feel like I am learning the hobby all over again and its great

Just a small update of pic's taken under the 20Ks. If I get home early enough tomorrow I will snap a few under the daylights for comparison. I tried to white balance the pics, but it really does not come out right.

On the equipment side I have added a phosban reactor which has dropped the phosphate levels down to zilch, so the nuisance algae is finally starting to come into check and the Coraline is starting to spread at a rapid pace. I have been dosing purple-up which seems kinda like a gimmick but who knows......

Readings as of last night with API kits
NO2 = 0
PO4 = 0
DKH = 8
CA = 380
PH = 8.2
SAL= 1.024
TEMP = 81avg

Since the last posting I have added:
Daisy Polyps
Metallic green button polyps
misc powder blue zoas (I hate the zoa LFS names and refuse to use them)
And as a trial I have added what I thought was a Montipora Digitata *and was sold to me as such*, but after doing research I am now not sure. This is frustrating because I sought out this species as its known to be a bit more forgiving to SPS newbs like me. Anyone help with a 100% ID please?

I have to say these simple Dasiy Polyps have been my best purchase, the GF loves it and has generated more interest from her about reefs over anything I have ever owned.


What I thought is Montipora Digitata, maybe it is? ID anyone?


zoa garden starting to take form



GSP have started to march across the rock work.


FTS, reworked the right side of the aquascape, I think I finally like it.



Sorry for the Blue shots but thanks for looking