How to quiet drain lines into sump?

carb850 · 04/08/2009, 10:25 PM

I have done several searches but none with any luck on ways to quiet my drain lines. I currently have them running down at a 45 degree angle then another 45 keeping the water level with the water surface. It isn't horrible but it needs improvements. Any good links for the best ways to quiet the drain lines?

(BTW, most of my searches only found ways to quiet the durso not the lines into the sump)

pwoller · 04/08/2009, 10:34 PM

Is the water splashing into the sump? Is it going through a filter sock? Where is the sound coming from?

carb850 · 04/08/2009, 10:49 PM

I'm using an Eheim 1260 as my return so I'm splitting about 500GPH between two overflows.

One is pictured but both are run the same way. The water just seems to be coming at a high velocity into the sump and is creating a lot of bubbles and noise as it enters.

carb850 · 04/08/2009, 10:54 PM

This is a still of the bubbles being created by the velocity of the water entering the sump. I'm not really detecting any pulsing or flushing sounds. Looking into the overflows it appears the water level is staying constant.

futureeyedoc · 04/08/2009, 11:03 PM

I had the same problem on a tank/sump combo very similar to yours that I had bought previously set up from someone else...
All I did was connect another 6-10 inches of pipe so that no matter what the water level, they were always emptying under water.
Just run a tiny piece of pvc, then another 90 to shoot it down, then that 6-8 inch run of pvc.... in your sump you won't even have to glue it - it'll stay on from you forcing it on alone...

Mine went from being insanely loud to extremely quiet in literally 5 minutes

you might also add a filter sock like the above post stated to each line just to help cut down on the noise....

carb850 · 04/09/2009, 05:42 AM

I will give that a try. I feared emptying the line underwater would make the noise worse but it would be super easy at this point to see what happens.

cccapt · 04/09/2009, 08:23 AM

I had my 1" pvc drain dump into a piece of 3" pvc with holes drilled in the bottom. Works great.

THE ROOK · 04/09/2009, 09:46 AM

I agree lower that 45 until it's 2"-3" under water. Should help. Mine are at least that far under.

Reefbox · 04/09/2009, 09:51 AM

A reducer 2"x4" or such with the big diameter slightly under water acts like a muzzle. and collects bubbles when they pop.

sunsetSPS · 04/09/2009, 10:50 AM

Any luck in fixing the noise? Your bubbles in the drain are from overflow standpipe, most of these bubbles aren't newly created when the water hit the sump surface water.

carb850 · 04/09/2009, 11:56 AM

I will not get a chance to try any of these suggestions until later this evening. I will report back, most likely with more questions.

carb850 · 04/09/2009, 03:00 PM

Turning down the ends rather than having them parallel with the water surface made a big difference. It is clear now that the bubbles are coming down my drain like sunset mentioned. So I guess my next step is to try the airline tubing down the center of the durso unless anyone has another suggestion.

carb850 · 04/09/2009, 07:03 PM

I attemped the airline tube +/-7" down the durso. I started to get a massive flushing of the overflow. Water level would vary 6". So I drilled a second line. The water level is now constant but no decrease in bubbles. Also, water started backing up my drain line to the point of water started coming out of my air vent pipe (down near the sump). I blocked if off but still no change in bubbles.

becact · 04/09/2009, 07:48 PM

Try inserting a large PVC pipe with holes drilled in the bottom (like a previous poster), but throw a bunch of liverock rubble in there.

carb850 · 04/09/2009, 10:26 PM

That might difuse it a bit, but not reduce the bubbles coming in I assume. I will do whatever it seems like there should be away to minimize the bubbles to begin with.

It was suggested to me to increase the drain from a 1" to a 1.5"(+) before it reaches the sump. The thought being it will slow the water down a bit.

I found another thread were someone suggesting going down to the sumps water level with a horizontal section then using 90's come up and back down essentially making a trap. I tried this and it didn't make a noticeable difference.

becact · 04/10/2009, 09:22 AM

What is that upturned open piece right before the return line to the fuge?

Really, all you need to do it decrease the bubbles in the fuge area. If there are bubbles in the skimmmer area, they should be caught by the bubble trap, right? Try turning down the flow more to the fuge, maybe?

carb850 · 04/10/2009, 09:41 AM

It was to vent the air. It helped a lot at first but then I drilled more holes in the top cap of the durso. After putting the additional holes I got ride of that piece and noticed no change in volume or amount of air coming down the drain.

The bubble trap on the skimmer side does take care of the bubbles.

Imzadi · 04/10/2009, 09:54 AM

from the 'non-expert' point of view, all I see is turbulance. Everywhere. The water blasting out of the tube, the water ripping across the surface of the sump, the water hitting the front of the tank, and the water going over the overflows into the return area. Even the little vents that you got down there would make more noise by themselves then I would find to be acceptable.

I have twice as much flow, give or take, and I hear NOTHING on my BeanAnimal type circ system... I mean a crab passing algea-gas would make more noise than my setup.

From where I sit, in my chair of limited knowledge, I see turbulance = noise... calm water = silence.

sunsetSPS · 04/10/2009, 10:28 AM

What is your drain bulkhead size and what is your drain pipe size down below the sump?

sscherin · 04/10/2009, 12:21 PM

The only truly silent system I've used is the one posted by Bean Animal

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1541946

1 full siphon restricted drain line (no air al all. submerged return)
1-3 vented (durso)drains.. 1 for minimal flow to catch excess from the throttled line and a 2nd for emergency overlofw.

I build mine with just 2 (1 siphon and 1 durso)but I was sure to size the 2nd Durso to handle full flow if necessary. It's already passed the emergency test when a snail went down the restricted line.

This setup is amazingly quiet.. my fan and skimmer make more noise than the returns.

I've had it running for 2 months.. I've only had to adjust the restricted line maybe 2 times when it was flowing to much and the durso was getting no flow at all.

saltydragon · 04/10/2009, 12:37 PM

i have ball valves at the lower half of my drains.....and my return plumbing....it helps dial in the right amount of flow which makes a nice and quiet drain....i also have the airline tubing at the top of the standpipe...

Imzadi · 04/10/2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sscherin
The only truly silent system I've used is the one posted by Bean Animal

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1541946

1 full siphon restricted drain line (no air al all. submerged return)
1-3 vented (durso)drains.. 1 for minimal flow to catch excess from the throttled line and a 2nd for emergency overlofw.

I build mine with just 2 (1 siphon and 1 durso)but I was sure to size the 2nd Durso to handle full flow if necessary. It's already passed the emergency test when a snail went down the restricted line.

This setup is amazingly quiet.. my fan and skimmer make more noise than the returns.

I've had it running for 2 months.. I've only had to adjust the restricted line maybe 2 times when it was flowing to much and the durso was getting no flow at all.

Testify! I did mine EXACTLY like you did. I have a video under the redhouse of it now. You can HEAR the Mag 9.5 running, more than the flow of water. I mean, I have it temporarily setup in the middle of my living room, until I do the move to the where the existing tank is at, and I said the other night to my wife, 'Do you hear that?' she says... 'Yea, what is it?' ... I investigated and realized I forgot to unplug the pump after I was done... um... tweeking. When I am sitting her at the PC... the fans on my PC are louder... and the tank is 6 feet away.

:-)

das75 · 04/10/2009, 04:48 PM

the classic 2 standpipe Herbie is silent as well. Seen a couple of high flow setups both running ~2000gph and they were truly silent. When running a Herbie you start thinking that the Dart return pump is a screamer.

The advantage of the Herbie and Bean's is not air is drawn in like Dursos, Stockmans etc, so no gurgle in the sump or within the lines.

Overall I'm fine with my 2x2" Dursos at 1000gph as the upstairs display is near silent and even the basement sump is quiet compared to my Barracuda return pump but I do hear the noise in the lines as the drains run under my office on the way to the sump.

Haven't tried it yet as the noise doesn't bother me that much but see no reason why couldn't convert an established dual overflow chamber system to a Herbie. Basically would raise the rim height of one of overflow chambers to be the Herbie backup, the other chamber would be the primary and to it's drain line, I would place the gate valve.

monotreme_man · 04/10/2009, 05:11 PM

i have the same problem, i think, where all the noise comes
from teh water passing through the plumbing. (mine is worse
because my sump is 12ft below the overflow.)

i have tried all the normal things, but frankly, all that has done
is concentrate the problem into the plumbing (i use a hofer gurgle buster).

i am coming to the conclusion that my problem is that my return,
which is limited to 1in sched 40 plumbing, is too small for my
current flow rate and that i need to dial that back to where the hofer device
can make it all quiet.

does that seem correct?

carb850 · 04/10/2009, 06:01 PM

Will the 'Bean Animal' system adapt to a tank with the AGA overflows with no additional drilling? I would rather listen to the noise than cut out these overflows and drill this tank.

Even if it will work, I hope to improve the durso first or if I have to try the Hofer Gurgle Buster.

04/08/2009, 10:25 PM	#1
carb850 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 2,042	How to quiet drain lines into sump? I have done several searches but none with any luck on ways to quiet my drain lines. I currently have them running down at a 45 degree angle then another 45 keeping the water level with the water surface. It isn't horrible but it needs improvements. Any good links for the best ways to quiet the drain lines? (BTW, most of my searches only found ways to quiet the durso not the lines into the sump)

04/09/2009, 08:23 AM	#7
cccapt Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: N.E. PA Posts: 842	I had my 1" pvc drain dump into a piece of 3" pvc with holes drilled in the bottom. Works great. __________________ /Larry Current Tank Info: 125 reef

04/09/2009, 09:51 AM	#9
Reefbox Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Butler, PA Posts: 1,045	A reducer 2"x4" or such with the big diameter slightly under water acts like a muzzle. and collects bubbles when they pop. __________________ Jason

04/10/2009, 09:54 AM	#18
Imzadi Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 1,038	from the 'non-expert' point of view, all I see is turbulance. Everywhere. The water blasting out of the tube, the water ripping across the surface of the sump, the water hitting the front of the tank, and the water going over the overflows into the return area. Even the little vents that you got down there would make more noise by themselves then I would find to be acceptable. I have twice as much flow, give or take, and I hear NOTHING on my BeanAnimal type circ system... I mean a crab passing algea-gas would make more noise than my setup. From where I sit, in my chair of limited knowledge, I see turbulance = noise... calm water = silence. __________________ If you don't agree with me, that's fine... just go, think about it some more, and come back when you do. Current Tank Info: 120g Freshie, 55g salty with a 2/3 BeanAnimal. BA METHOD - TESTIFY! I am a DIY Disaster, but I am saving money! Damsel FREE since 07/08/09!

04/10/2009, 12:21 PM	#20
sscherin Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 697	The only truly silent system I've used is the one posted by Bean Animal http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1541946 1 full siphon restricted drain line (no air al all. submerged return) 1-3 vented (durso)drains.. 1 for minimal flow to catch excess from the throttled line and a 2nd for emergency overlofw. I build mine with just 2 (1 siphon and 1 durso)but I was sure to size the 2nd Durso to handle full flow if necessary. It's already passed the emergency test when a snail went down the restricted line. This setup is amazingly quiet.. my fan and skimmer make more noise than the returns. I've had it running for 2 months.. I've only had to adjust the restricted line maybe 2 times when it was flowing to much and the durso was getting no flow at all. __________________ William's Law-- There is no mechanical problem so difficult that it cannot be solved by brute strength and ignorance. Current Tank Info: 14gal construction zone

04/08/2009, 10:34 PM	#2
pwoller Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 1,163	Is the water splashing into the sump? Is it going through a filter sock? Where is the sound coming from?

04/08/2009, 10:49 PM	#3
carb850 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 2,042	I'm using an Eheim 1260 as my return so I'm splitting about 500GPH between two overflows. One is pictured but both are run the same way. The water just seems to be coming at a high velocity into the sump and is creating a lot of bubbles and noise as it enters.

04/08/2009, 10:54 PM	#4
carb850 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 2,042	This is a still of the bubbles being created by the velocity of the water entering the sump. I'm not really detecting any pulsing or flushing sounds. Looking into the overflows it appears the water level is staying constant.

04/08/2009, 11:03 PM	#5
futureeyedoc Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wausau, WI Posts: 218	I had the same problem on a tank/sump combo very similar to yours that I had bought previously set up from someone else... All I did was connect another 6-10 inches of pipe so that no matter what the water level, they were always emptying under water. Just run a tiny piece of pvc, then another 90 to shoot it down, then that 6-8 inch run of pvc.... in your sump you won't even have to glue it - it'll stay on from you forcing it on alone... Mine went from being insanely loud to extremely quiet in literally 5 minutes you might also add a filter sock like the above post stated to each line just to help cut down on the noise....

04/09/2009, 05:42 AM	#6
carb850 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 2,042	I will give that a try. I feared emptying the line underwater would make the noise worse but it would be super easy at this point to see what happens.

04/09/2009, 09:46 AM	#8
THE ROOK Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Springfield, MA Posts: 2,100	I agree lower that 45 until it's 2"-3" under water. Should help. Mine are at least that far under.

04/09/2009, 10:50 AM	#10
sunsetSPS Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 355	Any luck in fixing the noise? Your bubbles in the drain are from overflow standpipe, most of these bubbles aren't newly created when the water hit the sump surface water.

04/09/2009, 11:56 AM	#11
carb850 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 2,042	I will not get a chance to try any of these suggestions until later this evening. I will report back, most likely with more questions.

04/09/2009, 03:00 PM	#12
carb850 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 2,042	Turning down the ends rather than having them parallel with the water surface made a big difference. It is clear now that the bubbles are coming down my drain like sunset mentioned. So I guess my next step is to try the airline tubing down the center of the durso unless anyone has another suggestion.

04/09/2009, 07:03 PM	#13
carb850 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 2,042	I attemped the airline tube +/-7" down the durso. I started to get a massive flushing of the overflow. Water level would vary 6". So I drilled a second line. The water level is now constant but no decrease in bubbles. Also, water started backing up my drain line to the point of water started coming out of my air vent pipe (down near the sump). I blocked if off but still no change in bubbles.

04/09/2009, 07:48 PM	#14
becact Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Dakota Posts: 550	Try inserting a large PVC pipe with holes drilled in the bottom (like a previous poster), but throw a bunch of liverock rubble in there.

04/09/2009, 10:26 PM	#15
carb850 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 2,042	That might difuse it a bit, but not reduce the bubbles coming in I assume. I will do whatever it seems like there should be away to minimize the bubbles to begin with. It was suggested to me to increase the drain from a 1" to a 1.5"(+) before it reaches the sump. The thought being it will slow the water down a bit. I found another thread were someone suggesting going down to the sumps water level with a horizontal section then using 90's come up and back down essentially making a trap. I tried this and it didn't make a noticeable difference.

04/10/2009, 09:22 AM	#16
becact Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Dakota Posts: 550	What is that upturned open piece right before the return line to the fuge? Really, all you need to do it decrease the bubbles in the fuge area. If there are bubbles in the skimmmer area, they should be caught by the bubble trap, right? Try turning down the flow more to the fuge, maybe?

04/10/2009, 09:41 AM	#17
carb850 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 2,042	It was to vent the air. It helped a lot at first but then I drilled more holes in the top cap of the durso. After putting the additional holes I got ride of that piece and noticed no change in volume or amount of air coming down the drain. The bubble trap on the skimmer side does take care of the bubbles.

04/10/2009, 10:28 AM	#19
sunsetSPS Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 355	What is your drain bulkhead size and what is your drain pipe size down below the sump?

04/10/2009, 12:37 PM	#21
saltydragon Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Westbury L.i Posts: 402	i have ball valves at the lower half of my drains.....and my return plumbing....it helps dial in the right amount of flow which makes a nice and quiet drain....i also have the airline tubing at the top of the standpipe...

04/10/2009, 04:48 PM	#23
das75 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 2,269	the classic 2 standpipe Herbie is silent as well. Seen a couple of high flow setups both running ~2000gph and they were truly silent. When running a Herbie you start thinking that the Dart return pump is a screamer. The advantage of the Herbie and Bean's is not air is drawn in like Dursos, Stockmans etc, so no gurgle in the sump or within the lines. Overall I'm fine with my 2x2" Dursos at 1000gph as the upstairs display is near silent and even the basement sump is quiet compared to my Barracuda return pump but I do hear the noise in the lines as the drains run under my office on the way to the sump. Haven't tried it yet as the noise doesn't bother me that much but see no reason why couldn't convert an established dual overflow chamber system to a Herbie. Basically would raise the rim height of one of overflow chambers to be the Herbie backup, the other chamber would be the primary and to it's drain line, I would place the gate valve.

04/10/2009, 05:11 PM	#24
monotreme_man Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 228	i have the same problem, i think, where all the noise comes from teh water passing through the plumbing. (mine is worse because my sump is 12ft below the overflow.) i have tried all the normal things, but frankly, all that has done is concentrate the problem into the plumbing (i use a hofer gurgle buster). i am coming to the conclusion that my problem is that my return, which is limited to 1in sched 40 plumbing, is too small for my current flow rate and that i need to dial that back to where the hofer device can make it all quiet. does that seem correct?

04/10/2009, 06:01 PM	#25
carb850 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 2,042	Will the 'Bean Animal' system adapt to a tank with the AGA overflows with no additional drilling? I would rather listen to the noise than cut out these overflows and drill this tank. Even if it will work, I hope to improve the durso first or if I have to try the Hofer Gurgle Buster.