um has anyone heard about this??? this bill could end the reef hobby

[CoralKitty]

http://nohr669.com/index.htm

"What is HR 669?
H.R. 669 stands for House Resolution 669 and is titled "The Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act". It is a bill currently before Congress that if passed will change the way that the US Government classifies animal species that are not native to the United States. H.R. 669 will make it illegal to breed and sell many animals that are very common in the pet trade.

Why should you care about HR 669?
Anyone with pet fish, birds, reptiles, or small mammals will be affected by this bill. Any company selling product or services for pet fish, birds, reptiles or small mammals will be affected by this bill. Would you be impacted by "The Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act"?"


....does NOT sound good
many animals are not on the pre-existing okay list, including chinchillas, hamsters, big and small parrots, guniea pigs, ferrets, all reptiles and most fish

[Western_reefer]

I heard about it a while ago.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/fo...d.php?t=230948

[D&KSac]

uhh thats lame! they have no right... I wont give up my reef.

[Western_reefer]

Originally posted by D&KSac
uhh thats lame! they have no right... I wont give up my reef.

+99999999999

[VacavilleFC3S]

i'll take my reefing underground

[Bamm Bamm]

thats good for me its makes all my corals worth 100x as much=)..Underground coral blackmarket baby

[Kaiden]

Come on! That's not going to happen! Could you imagine! Good luck with that!

[philter4]

I've brought up potential hobby ending bills at our local meetings before and later read that I'm over exagerating (last year a bill went through the Hawiaan legislation that would limit the number of any one species a commercial collector could collect to 5 individuals of any one species a day, and eliminated all yellow tangs and potters angels), every year they put similar laws before local and federal govt and each year they gain a few more votes...One of these years it will pass, and then not only could your tanks become illegal where are you going to get new stock? People who frag their corals and distribute them could face huge fines and confiscations that will end the hobby in a few years. CA already has a law on the books that says "it is illegal to transport a fin fish in a live condition from the point of origin to any other destination" That statement was put into the law to prevent fishermen from spreading fish from one lake to a lake where they are not native, but it could be put to any hobbyiest who buys a fish and takes it home if they decide to push the law, how would that effect the hobby?

[Twisted]

Actually with the current goverment there is a chance that this bill will pass with some major modifications.

Is there a chance they will just outlaw all non-native species? no, they will tax them instead.

If this bill passed as currently written you would see the loss of thousands of jobs, and a lot of bussiness going under, the goverment won't do that without a much better reason,.

However that won't keep them from seeing a new and wonderful resource for tax dollars. Larger import fees, higher taxes for non-native species etc....

I think the goverment needs to realize that we were all once imported from other countries to create this one.

[jthao]

I wish they ban owning a reef, cuss then our reeftanks will be worth a lot more!!!!!
Now it's even more exotic cuss we're keeping/growing something illegal at home!!!!!
HECK YEAH!!!!

[Underwaterparadise]

Originally posted by philter4
I've brought up potential hobby ending bills at our local meetings before and later read that I'm over exagerating (last year a bill went through the Hawiaan legislation that would limit the number of any one species a commercial collector could collect to 5 individuals of any one species a day, and eliminated all yellow tangs and potters angels), every year they put similar laws before local and federal govt and each year they gain a few more votes...One of these years it will pass, and then not only could your tanks become illegal where are you going to get new stock? People who frag their corals and distribute them could face huge fines and confiscations that will end the hobby in a few years. CA already has a law on the books that says "it is illegal to transport a fin fish in a live condition from the point of origin to any other destination" That statement was put into the law to prevent fishermen from spreading fish from one lake to a lake where they are not native, but it could be put to any hobbyiest who buys a fish and takes it home if they decide to push the law, how would that effect the hobby?

Our Aquariums are the small part. As twisted said there will be thousands of people without jobs. Some villages will have to find a new way to make a living.

[TAB]

The reason these bills come up is do to hobbists... People releasing plants and animals into local water ways... rather its intentual, or not

[SLOreefer]

trust me, the government does way stupider things than this. The government recently placed a ban on lead in items that can be in contact with children under the age of 12. Every item, including motorcycles designed for youth have been banned, which is causing businesses to go under around the country. 1/3 of the off road motorcycles sold go to this age group. Hundreds of thousands of dollars have already been lost. The last lead scare did not hurt a single child and these rediculous laws have been passed anyway....

and we thing that some stupid law proposed wont pass due to money? There are much less thought out laws that have been and will be passed unless "we the people" stand up for our rights.

[Twisted]

Originally posted by jthao
I wish they ban owning a reef, cuss then our reeftanks will be worth a lot more!!!!!
Now it's even more exotic cuss we're keeping/growing something illegal at home!!!!!
HECK YEAH!!!!

Dump all the stuff out of your reef, put in some potting soil, go down town and talk to the guy on the corner, and ask him for some seedlings, might have to ask a few people, but eventually you will get your illegal growing hoby under way.
Good luck!

[Twisted]

Originally posted by SLOreefer
trust me, the government does way stupider things than this. The government recently placed a ban on lead in items that can be in contact with children under the age of 12. Every item, including motorcycles designed for youth have been banned, which is causing businesses to go under around the country. 1/3 of the off road motorcycles sold go to this age group. Hundreds of thousands of dollars have already been lost. The last lead scare did not hurt a single child and these rediculous laws have been passed anyway....

and we thing that some stupid law proposed wont pass due to money? There are much less thought out laws that have been and will be passed unless "we the people" stand up for our rights.

Thos loss in motorcycle sells would be an unintentional loss, and a biproduct of the bill being passed.
The bill being discussed is to shoot directly at the importing of non-native wild life.

Speaking of banning motorcycles and such, our area should be attempting to pass another ATV bill anytime soon after another teenager was killed last week here on one.

[CoralKitty]

i hope it does not affect the reef hobby, i mean aside from calurpa there is nothing terribly invasive that can really survive or cause harm off the coast should anything from some ones tank end up in the water.

i also wanted to bring up a documentary i saw about a gaint non-native exotic rat population in the florida keys they are desperately trying to keep under control and keep from reaching the mainland. this huge population started when the animals were banned as pets and a breeder (whom later admitted) she released her stock on one of the islands since she could not sell them

[Bamm Bamm]

You can still get caulerpa if you want it=) I have a hook up

[Twisted]

non-native animals have always been a problem when it comes to land animal. California has a ban on Ferrets.
This ban is supposedly due to the nature of the ferret. They are a hunting species, and supposedly can breed with many of the similar non destructive species that do reside in california.
There have been a ton of research, by hundreds of individuals, and a lot of organizations, and programs, that have proven that the ferret is not any where near the animal that previous reports have made it.
None of these reports have made a bit of difference, because the goverment is not able to say, ooops, we jumped the gun on that one, sorry.

So once something is banned, good luck getting it over turned.

But you are very correct Coralkitty, dump a store load of reef stuff in the ocean off the coast of California, Oregon, Washington, not very much is going to survive, and even less will reproduce.
But dump it off the coast of Florida, and you have a diffrent story.

Our current problem in my area are snails, some how some sort of odd freshwater snail go introduced to our local lakes, and I guess it

[CoralKitty]

yeah there is a problem with some small black non native pond snail.

red ear slider turtles are non native and survive here (hence why when i found and caught one at the lake and one at the river i took them home)

as for ferrets i do not see why they cannot be legal as long as they are spayed/neutered as that would solve the problem.

[Bamm Bamm]

Just go to Nevada they sell Ferrets at every pet store and you can buy ferret food and such LOCALLY at any petsmart.. they are really cool little animals.. i don;t have one my cats and fish tanks are enough for me=)

[DCartagena]

My sister has two of those ferrets they are pretty kool. They are more of the weasle type of family but act as cats. But they cant take away our reefing thats gonna be a huge undergound market

[Nuuze]

30k OBO, cash or paypal for mine!

[Tylt33]

If you read the actual text of this bill, you'll see that it's grossly exaggerated and I have a very hard time imagining that it would have ANY impact on reefers. The bill is written to:

"To prevent the introduction and establishment of nonnative wildlife species that negatively impact the economy, environment, or other animal species’ or human health, and for other purposes."

Certain species, like Caulerpa, should be banned and continue to be so. Other species, like lionfish, should probably be considered for being banned. But this isn't a "blanket ban"; every species on the banned list must be individually considered- will it, if allowed, have a potential to establish itself in the local environment, will it cause negative impacts to the economy, etc.? I think we're pretty safe here in California.

[Tylt33]

And, any animals possessed before this bill is passed would continue to be legal to possess, so we'd be fine And any species would be open for petition to be added to the "allowed" species.

[jthao]

Originally posted by Nuuze
30k OBO, cash or paypal for mine!

I'll take it!!! give me a couple of days to sell one of my kidneys for the money.