Ammonia issues

TGIF · 04/18/2009, 06:30 AM

Hi, I have had my tank running for about 6 months. It has been fishless for about 2 months, we had a marine velvet outbreak.

I have cleaner and peppermint shrimp, an emerald crab, snails and scarlet and blue legged hermits.

They all seem to be doing fine. The snails are laying eggs constantly, the shrimp are molting and full of eggs.

I tested my ammonia and it was up to 2.4. How can this be? Wouldn't the inverts be feeling this?

I recently introduced zoas to the tank and one set does not look good. Can they be polluting the tank? I'm not sure if they are dying off or just adjusting. The other zoas are doing great.

I'm not sure what to do. I was going to get some fish but obviously am going to hold off until I get this figure out.

I do have an amazing bad case of green hair algae and bubble algae. I thought the emerald would help with the bubbles but it has been too busy with the hair algae.

Any advice? Could my test kit be bad? The nitrites are at 0.1. thanks

billsreef · 04/18/2009, 07:18 AM

Double check those results against another kit. While those results might be right, considering health of the snails and shrimp, I suspect the kit is off.

Flipper62 · 04/18/2009, 07:40 AM

I agree with Bill. How old is your test kit ? My experience is that the kits like API start going bad around 1 to 1 1/2 years, however this also counts on the shelf life. If its been sitting on the LFS shelf for 6 months, the kit might start going bad for you after 6 months.

When ever I start getting wierd off the wall readings & I know everything is doing well, I take some water into the LFS & see what he gets. I test 1 to 2 times a week & I still take water in every 4 to 5 weeks just to check it.

Sisterlimonpot · 04/18/2009, 07:55 AM

You don't mention the size of your tank. I see this pop up quite a bit with smaller tanks or tanks without enough surface area (i.e. live rock) to sustain a bacteria population. Although I would also take a sample of water to the LFS for comparison I would also look into those areas as well.

TGIF · 04/18/2009, 08:25 AM

I have a 55 gallon with 50 pounds of LR. I am using the nutrafin test kits which are for both salt and fresh water. i just ordered an API saltwater & reef kit and am hoping to get more accurate results.

Sisterlimonpot · 04/18/2009, 08:41 AM

then it doesn't make sense.... and if it doesn't make sense.. than it's not true...

a good move on a new test kit. In the mean time can you take a sample to a LFS to see what they get as far as amm and trites? It's better to be safe than sorry

Flipper62 · 04/18/2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TGIF
I have a 55 gallon with 50 pounds of LR. I am using the nutrafin test kits which are for both salt and fresh water. i just ordered an API saltwater & reef kit and am hoping to get more accurate results.

A 55 gallon with 50 lbs of live rock......You definitely need more rock to start.

But still, as I said earlier, as did sisterlemonpot. Get some water to the LFS & have them check it. His test kit will be a lot newer then yours, most LFS burn through the test kits pretty fast.

Michael · 04/18/2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TGIF
Hi, I have had my tank running for about 6 months. It has been fishless for about 2 months, we had a marine velvet outbreak.

I have cleaner and peppermint shrimp, an emerald crab, snails and scarlet and blue legged hermits.

They all seem to be doing fine. The snails are laying eggs constantly, the shrimp are molting and full of eggs.

I tested my ammonia and it was up to 2.4. How can this be? Wouldn't the inverts be feeling this?

I recently introduced zoas to the tank and one set does not look good. Can they be polluting the tank? I'm not sure if they are dying off or just adjusting. The other zoas are doing great.

I'm not sure what to do. I was going to get some fish but obviously am going to hold off until I get this figure out.

I do have an amazing bad case of green hair algae and bubble algae. I thought the emerald would help with the bubbles but it has been too busy with the hair algae.

Any advice? Could my test kit be bad? The nitrites are at 0.1. thanks

i dont think your ammonia level is at 2.4, i think this is testing error, as for the hair algae, have you tested for phosphate and nitrate, also id personally be very interested in your magnesium test results

Sk8r · 04/18/2009, 09:09 AM

if you have hair algae you have excess phosphate, and a test won't show it: just run some Phosban.

The ammonia is weird, unless one of your rocks contains a once-live clam that even the worms can't reach. This can happen. I once had a rock turn out to be congealed petroleum---so most anything can happen.

I'd suggest about 10-20 more lbs of live rock.

How's your sandbed? How deep? If a deep sandbed gets riled up, some bad things can happen.

TGIF · 04/18/2009, 04:21 PM

I'm definitely looking at getting some more LR. Just trying to find something that doesn't cost $10 a pound.

My sandbed is about 2 inches.

I didn't realize that sun (not direct) was hitting my tank. I thought it was fairly sheltered. This is what I am blaming for the hair algae. I have put up darker curtains and the algae problem seems to be going away...somewhat. I need to manually go in and remove some of it.

I'm getting my new test kit tomorrow and am hopeful the results will be better.

Aquarist007 · 04/18/2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sk8r
if you have hair algae you have excess phosphate, and a test won't show it: just run some Phosban.

The ammonia is weird, unless one of your rocks contains a once-live clam that even the worms can't reach. This can happen. I once had a rock turn out to be congealed petroleum---so most anything can happen.

I'd suggest about 10-20 more lbs of live rock.

How's your sandbed? How deep? If a deep sandbed gets riled up, some bad things can happen.

I heard of that too Sk8r--but after 6 months wouldn't you think the ammonia would have leached out or the bacteria dealt with it.

TGIF · 04/19/2009, 03:47 PM

Just got my new API test kit

Ammonia 0 (Nutrafin had it at 2.4 just this morning)
Nitrate 5.0 (Nutrafin had it 20)
Nitrite 0 (Nutrafin had it at .1-.2)
pH 8.2 (nutrafin had it at 8.5)

and just for kicks: salinty 1.024 temp 79

glad i got the new kit...

DouglasTiede · 04/19/2009, 04:25 PM

After 6 months your parameters should be good, IF.. notice the IF.. the tank actually cycled completely.
You have nothing in there to bio load your tank. A few inverts will not make enough of an impact to make the tank full cycle.
I'd set up a QT tank, move the inverts and zoo's and drop in one or 2 pieces of uncooked shrimp and get that tank to cycle.
The algae is telling me your tank never cycled completely.

TGIF · 04/19/2009, 04:46 PM

should I put the inverts and zoas in a bare bottom tank and just run a corner filter? I know the tank cycled completely before I added the fish but since I haven't had fish for 2 months I have been wondering if maybe that is what's going on.

Aquarist007 · 04/19/2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DouglasTiede
After 6 months your parameters should be good, IF.. notice the IF.. the tank actually cycled completely.
You have nothing in there to bio load your tank. A few inverts will not make enough of an impact to make the tank full cycle.
I'd set up a QT tank, move the inverts and zoo's and drop in one or 2 pieces of uncooked shrimp and get that tank to cycle.
The algae is telling me your tank never cycled completely.

IMO if the tank had been up six months it has probably cyled. I would use the shrimp stil but as a test.
Take your ammonia levels
Put the shrimp in the tank for 12 hours
Remove the shrimp
Take an ammonia test
If the ammonia has not risen then the chances are excellent that your tank has cycled and the ammonia tests originally were out of whack.

To be on the entire safe side I think it is good advise to qt the inverts as stated.
To answer your question you can and should put them in a bare bottom tank. Since you do not have an hob filter established put a piece of live rock in with them. Check ammonia levels dilegently and be prepared to do a water change if necessary

billsreef · 04/19/2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TGIF
Just got my new API test kit

Ammonia 0 (Nutrafin had it at 2.4 just this morning)
Nitrate 5.0 (Nutrafin had it 20)
Nitrite 0 (Nutrafin had it at .1-.2)
pH 8.2 (nutrafin had it at 8.5)

and just for kicks: salinty 1.024 temp 79

glad i got the new kit...

Glad to see the good test results.

While the critters you have wouldn't be producing a lot of ammonia, you can still consider the tank cycled. However, that doesn't mean go adding lots of new critters in a hurry. Go slow with new additions and you'll do just fine. It's also wise to set up a QT and QT all new additions for 4 - 6 weeks before adding them to the display in order to prevent introduction of diseases again

04/18/2009, 06:30 AM	#1
TGIF Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 73	Ammonia issues Hi, I have had my tank running for about 6 months. It has been fishless for about 2 months, we had a marine velvet outbreak. I have cleaner and peppermint shrimp, an emerald crab, snails and scarlet and blue legged hermits. They all seem to be doing fine. The snails are laying eggs constantly, the shrimp are molting and full of eggs. I tested my ammonia and it was up to 2.4. How can this be? Wouldn't the inverts be feeling this? I recently introduced zoas to the tank and one set does not look good. Can they be polluting the tank? I'm not sure if they are dying off or just adjusting. The other zoas are doing great. I'm not sure what to do. I was going to get some fish but obviously am going to hold off until I get this figure out. I do have an amazing bad case of green hair algae and bubble algae. I thought the emerald would help with the bubbles but it has been too busy with the hair algae. Any advice? Could my test kit be bad? The nitrites are at 0.1. thanks

04/18/2009, 07:18 AM	#2
billsreef Moderator 10 & Over Club Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Long Island, NY/North Miami Posts: 36,538	Double check those results against another kit. While those results might be right, considering health of the snails and shrimp, I suspect the kit is off. __________________ Bill "LOL, well I have no brain apparently. " - dc (Debi) Current Tank Info: Far too many tanks according to my wife, LOL.

04/18/2009, 07:40 AM	#3
Flipper62 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Naperville, Il. Business Owner, President & CEO Posts: 3,045	I agree with Bill. How old is your test kit ? My experience is that the kits like API start going bad around 1 to 1 1/2 years, however this also counts on the shelf life. If its been sitting on the LFS shelf for 6 months, the kit might start going bad for you after 6 months. When ever I start getting wierd off the wall readings & I know everything is doing well, I take some water into the LFS & see what he gets. I test 1 to 2 times a week & I still take water in every 4 to 5 weeks just to check it. __________________ If todays automobile had followed the same development as the computer, A Rolls Royce would cost $100.00. It would get a million miles per gallon, but it would explode once a year killing everyone inside." Current Tanks... 90 gal Reef... My awesome Office BioCube....( 180 was on hold ..no time ) ... The 180 gal has been sold...Yay..yay..yay. Hobby Experience: 19 years Reef...22 years FW

04/18/2009, 07:55 AM	#4
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	You don't mention the size of your tank. I see this pop up quite a bit with smaller tanks or tanks without enough surface area (i.e. live rock) to sustain a bacteria population. Although I would also take a sample of water to the LFS for comparison I would also look into those areas as well. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

04/18/2009, 08:41 AM	#6
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	then it doesn't make sense.... and if it doesn't make sense.. than it's not true... a good move on a new test kit. In the mean time can you take a sample to a LFS to see what they get as far as amm and trites? It's better to be safe than sorry __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

04/18/2009, 08:25 AM	#5
TGIF Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 73	I have a 55 gallon with 50 pounds of LR. I am using the nutrafin test kits which are for both salt and fresh water. i just ordered an API saltwater & reef kit and am hoping to get more accurate results.

04/18/2009, 09:09 AM	#9
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	if you have hair algae you have excess phosphate, and a test won't show it: just run some Phosban. The ammonia is weird, unless one of your rocks contains a once-live clam that even the worms can't reach. This can happen. I once had a rock turn out to be congealed petroleum---so most anything can happen. I'd suggest about 10-20 more lbs of live rock. How's your sandbed? How deep? If a deep sandbed gets riled up, some bad things can happen. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

04/18/2009, 04:21 PM	#10
TGIF Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 73	I'm definitely looking at getting some more LR. Just trying to find something that doesn't cost $10 a pound. My sandbed is about 2 inches. I didn't realize that sun (not direct) was hitting my tank. I thought it was fairly sheltered. This is what I am blaming for the hair algae. I have put up darker curtains and the algae problem seems to be going away...somewhat. I need to manually go in and remove some of it. I'm getting my new test kit tomorrow and am hopeful the results will be better.

04/19/2009, 03:47 PM	#12
TGIF Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 73	Just got my new API test kit Ammonia 0 (Nutrafin had it at 2.4 just this morning) Nitrate 5.0 (Nutrafin had it 20) Nitrite 0 (Nutrafin had it at .1-.2) pH 8.2 (nutrafin had it at 8.5) and just for kicks: salinty 1.024 temp 79 glad i got the new kit...

04/19/2009, 04:25 PM	#13
DouglasTiede Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kaukauna,WI Posts: 1,018	After 6 months your parameters should be good, IF.. notice the IF.. the tank actually cycled completely. You have nothing in there to bio load your tank. A few inverts will not make enough of an impact to make the tank full cycle. I'd set up a QT tank, move the inverts and zoo's and drop in one or 2 pieces of uncooked shrimp and get that tank to cycle. The algae is telling me your tank never cycled completely.

04/19/2009, 04:46 PM	#14
TGIF Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 73	should I put the inverts and zoas in a bare bottom tank and just run a corner filter? I know the tank cycled completely before I added the fish but since I haven't had fish for 2 months I have been wondering if maybe that is what's going on.